HSV Senator 5000i
Mar 10 2003, 03:42 PM
I have finaly finished my revisied system and must say I am much happier this time. My final system is as follows:
Alpine 7892E CD Headunit
Focal Polykevlar 165K 6.5" front splits
Alpine V12 T707 Front stage amp (2x88 wrms)
Boston RX67 6.5" 2 way coaxial rear fill
Alpine Vpower MRP-T130 rear fill amp (2x50wrms)
Alpine ZR 12 inch Subs (x2) in a sealed enclosure
MTX Thunder 500D sub amp (1x 750wrms)
New Stinger cabling throughout.
Now I havent tuned it at all and it sounds quite good but I feel there is more to be had. I was after anyones tips on tuning the system? Crossover points, headunit settings, time allignment that sort of stuff as I am not really up on the best way of setting these things up for SQ.
Any tips or opinions would be appreciated.
Cheers
shiny_car
Mar 10 2003, 09:07 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by HSV Senator 5000i:
I was after anyones tips on tuning the system? Crossover points, headunit settings, time allignment that sort of stuff as I am not really up on the best way of setting these things up for SQ.
ok, here's the general order i take to tune a system:
1. loudness off, EQ settings flat, use some well-recorded music
2. tune front stage amp:
*disconnect other amps
*gain down to minimum
*set HP filter to approximate expected setting: ~80Hz in your setup
*set HU volume setting to near-full: 90% on your HU will be fine
*play music
*up the gain to a level just before clipping
*tweak the xover setting: lower freq will reduce power handling, higher freq will reduce midbass response
3. tune the rearfill amp:
*disconnect other amps
*tune as per front stage amp: you have a fixed xover setting of 80Hz 18dB/oct; should be ok
4. tune subamp:
*disconnect other amps
*set LP filter to around 60~70Hz in your setup
*tune the gain
5. tune for spectral balance between amps: balanced freq response from subbass to treble without subbass dominating
*in most cases, the subbass dominates
*you may need to turn the gain 'down' on the subamp to achieve nice spectral balance
6. tune front stage time alignment
*refer to HU manual
*i personally keep the TA between L and R the same; this provides a soundstage that suits both the driver and front passenger at the same time, rather than tune specifically for the driver; i also find tuning specifically for the driver (ie: delaying R speakers more compared with L) sounds a little unnatural and detracts from SQ; you may find different of course
*most important to TA the fronts; rears are less important
*fade all the way to the front, so you only hear subbass and front stage
*set the front L/R TA; i've found 2.8ms to suit my sedan; in other cars and setups, around 2~3ms is about right
*use presets to compare: say compare 1.5ms with 2.5ms; keep the better sounding setting; then compare that with a different setting (eg: 2.5 with 2.0 and 2.5 with 3.0); keep testing, narrowing down the range to find the best setting; of course there'll be no audible difference between something like 2.7ms and 2.8ms!
7. tune rearfill TA
*hard to set perfectly, but it doesn't matter given the relative unimportance of rearfill
*set fader to even for F/R
*set it to about half of the front delay
8. set the fader
*you would expect to fade heavily towards the front
9. tune any EQ setting
*tune to taste
*preferably use a test disc with well-recorded music to tune the EQ
*focus on specific bandwidths one at a time and tune them relative to the rest of the music: eg: focus on subbass, and tune it to sound nice; then focus on midbass, then midrange, then treble
*i prefer to use vocals, piano, saxophone, accoustic guitar, etc tracks for EQ settings because i have a background of knowing what these sound like live and can tune to make them sound natural on my system
*if you end up boosting frequencies significantly (which would be unusual), then you may need to compensate by setting the gain down a little to avoid premature clipping of the amp
well, i hope that makes sense and can help. my biggest tip, for SQ, is to avoid having too much subbass. however, for daily listening, we all love our 'doof', so simply up the sublevel via the HU.
good luck
HSV Senator 5000i
Mar 10 2003, 10:52 PM
What can I say... WOW! What an outstanding post! Thankyou very much Shiny_car! That is incrediably helpful for a novice like myself. There is nothing more to do but to print that post and start tuning!
Thanks again!
HSV Senator 5000i
Mar 10 2003, 11:01 PM
Actually the only problem I can see is the to much sub bass thing! I spent a day installing my subs properly and made sure the box could not move at all and was secured to the rear shelf and the sub bass is amazing! It just hits so hard that I have the HU set to 0 for subs and they are still awesome! I cant believe what a difference securing the box correctly makes to Bass. I love it I never thought the ZRs would sound so good but god forbid I ever need to get them out or access the amps behind them!
[ March 10, 2003, 21:20: Message edited by: HSV Senator 5000i ]
lethal
Mar 10 2003, 11:10 PM
In a large sedan, VN commodore, How much more will I have to delay the sub if its right at the back of the boot, more towards 5ms, is that right.
shiny_car
Mar 11 2003, 01:06 AM
QUOTE
Originally posted by lethal:
In a large sedan, VN commodore, How much more will I have to delay the sub if its right at the back of the boot, more towards 5ms, is that right.
remember you actually need to delay the fronts rather than the sub (i think you've just mis-typed what you really meant ). the subbass will be what reaches your ears last because the subwoofer is farthest away from your ears compared with the fronts.
5ms maybe about right. what you wish to achieve is for the subbass to sound as if it's coming as part of the front stage; TA should allow this, and it's a great feature. so experiment away. if you use your presets, you can compare say 2ms to 4ms; if 4ms seems better, then next compare 4ms with 3ms and 5ms. keep sticking with the prefered setting and narrow down the range to find the best setting for your setup.
again, if you keep it clear in your mind that you are aiming to achieve the impression that subbass is being reproduced from speakers in front of you as part of the front splits, then you will tune it properly for a good result.
lethal
Mar 11 2003, 02:00 AM
yeh sorry, I meant what you said, I was being distracted when I was writing that.
Is bass focus the same as TA, just another way to do it.
[ March 11, 2003, 00:01: Message edited by: lethal ]
shiny_car
Mar 11 2003, 05:27 AM
QUOTE
Originally posted by lethal:
Is bass focus the same as TA, just another way to do it.
hmm, dunno, not familiar with that feature. but it may have something to do with altering the front stage rather than the sub?
if your HU does not have TA are there EQs taht have that feature?
10x
Gena
shiny_car
Mar 11 2003, 11:24 AM
yes, alpine have offered a number of stand-alone digital processors which feature not only TA, but include a parametric EQ, and sometimes phase/gain setup and xovers.
the list stems from around '96, with the release of the alpine PXA-H400 which was one of the first such processors on the market. included TA, EQ, and digital xovers.
since then, there's been:
*PXA-H600: released around '98; 6-ch TA, 4-band parametric, phase/gain
*PXA-H510: released around '01; dolby digital 5.1 decoder, 6-ch TA, 5-band parametric
*PXA-H700: '02 release and current model; 8-ch TA, mega-parametric/graphic EQ, xovers, dolby digital, etc; RRP$1499
*PXA-H900: '01 release, big daddy F1-status; fully sik moit; RRP$5999
so the standard processors have retailed around $1200~1500. the earlier model ones can go secondhand for around $350~500.
i use both a PXA-H600 and H510 in my setup. they are great, and best integrated with an alpine Ai-NET HU. however, they will accept RCA inputs from any brand HU and can be controlled via the hardwired remote.
the features are more sophisticated than in any of the alpine HUs, so are a worthy addition to any system of you want some nice processing.
subwayboy
Mar 13 2003, 02:57 AM
nothing i can say hear looks like shiny has said every thing i could possible think of and more
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.