shinys advice is worth listening to there

also, when i added my 5" centre speaker (before, there was just a pair of 6" splits) my mid-bass output increased noticably, and it plays exactly the same bandwidth as the L/R speakers. so adding 5's may work for you. while i hate to say it (cause its standard SPL plonker thinking, haha) cone space can be a good thing upfront - that said, if you install quality, you really shouldnt need much of it

shiny's adice is always worth lsitening to LOL Same goes for most people here.

So yeah The aim is to increase the midbass up front. The VDO splits are a 165mm speakr and there cone area is rather impressive, plus built to take 150wrms im sure they will pump very hard. God knows my back VDo's do off the headunit

With this is mind I may very well not need to put 2, but the wow factor is somewhat impressive if you have 2 drivers in the door... it always looks nice, and im sure it would work very well, considering I will be deadening the **** out of everything with both paint and matting.

The VDO drivers are quite attractive aswell, so a neat fiberglassed install would be worth it, just for looks alone. The satisfaction youd gt just by looking down would be oh so much, then you pop in your favourite disc and youre in heaven.

About the HP'ing of the staging drivers, silly salesman said I wouldnt need to put a crossover on the splits... silly silly man!!! I will proabaly HP it at about 120hz 12db/oct and LP the subwoofers at 80hz 12db/oct. These figures are what come switchable with the amp. It should work well sicne htey are only 12db/oct and it will according to many, reduce that boomy frquency at around 90hz.

Now i juz gotta track down some drivers of the same sort. If any can find some they are the drivers that are black with a greay rim, and a fancy D figure in white right in the middle of the woofer. They are 165mm woofers, powder coated baskets with design very similar to dybaudio's baskets...only the same grey as the rim. $10 bux to anyone who finds some in sydney, woofers ONLY ofcourse.

thanx to you guys for your help

you may want to lower your HP crossover point for the front stage, you will be lacking quite a bit of mid-bass authority if you HP @ 120hz.

and a 40hz gap is rather large, that's 1/2 an octave of gap...
120 is too high, need to be below 100Hz, if you've got good midbass drivers under 80hz

for sure, but i think they sound like they are 'fixed frequency' xovers rather than variable.

you could always buy a second complete set of splits. the woofer can be used as you wish, BP'd via the amp's inbuilt HP filter and the passive xover's LP.

the second set of tweets could be used as 'ambient' tweeters. mount them up on the dash and attenuate them heavily (eg: -6dB or -9dB), HP them very high (eg: 10~12kHz via an inline cap) and they should lift your soundstage height.

just a thought.

and a very ncie thought at that.

This would work great, since the crossovrs that come with the splits are adjustable to how oud you want your tweeters to go. It would work extremely well im sure, but there is 1 problem and 1 porblem only... $399, even though a great price for these splits is still to expensive to buy 2 of them...maybe later down the track. A driver however shouldnt really set me back anymore then say $250 max and most definately less.

Yes the AMP are a fixed switchable crossover unfortunately, but pasive cross overs have always been in the fore front of my mind so making my own is not a problem.

I will keep the sugestion in mind but its extremely unlikely that I will do suh a thing. Buying to complete sets of splits is a little to much for my budget... Id prefer to spend it on a good second hand amp to push my system even harder.

By the way, how exactly do you run in your speakers. Ive heard you can play medium levels for a few days to warm them up, or play white/pink noise through them for 10 or so hours... whats the best way? Any other advice folks? Anything and everything considered. Also should I run them in off the head unit for a bit and then the amp? im thinking no, but what would I know

generally, speakers need 20-30 hours of normal use before they are 'run-in' and sound they way they are supposed to sound. after 30 hours, they may improve a very tiny amount over time, but they basically sound how they are gonna sound for the rest of their life.

some say to run your speakers gently when you first get them, similar to a new engine. most people dont do this, and crank it up shortly after installing to enjoy their toys! i dont know which way is the best to go, speakers are supposed to vibrate, so turning them up when new shouldnt damage them, but it could be sensible to run them moderately for the first few hours of use to let the spider and surround get used to stretching.

as for running them in, just play whatever music you like and play it as often as you like - for 30 hours, haha. if you listen to your sytem for 5 hours a week, in 1 1/2 months you would have done 30 hours listening, and the speakers will then be run in. running in speakers is not pie in the sky cr@p, it really happens, speakers actually do sound better when they are run in, my present boston pro 6.5's were a little laid back when i first got them, so i cranked up the tweeters, now i have to attentuate them to where the factory recommends because they are run in, it is said hard dome tweeters take a while to break in but i think all speakers do. mid-bass also changes after running in as the suspension of the woofer becomes a little more compliant. as for using white/pink noise, you can do that, but its mostly done my magazine reviewers who have to quickly run in speakers before a review overnight, i think its better to break in your speakers with what they will end up playing - MUSIC

so yeah, running in is very real, just listen to your music at whatever sensible volume you like, and 30 hours later, they should be sounding as the engineers intended.

one last thing - every time you turn your system on, it needs to be run-in AGAIN so to speak what im referring to is warming up. your amps will be cold, your speakers will be a little stiff, even worse if its cold, and so on. the point is, never judge the SQ of your system until it is run in for 30 hours and it has had time (5-10 min) to warm up.

actually, when you think about it, speakers are alot like a car engine!

nothing special is required. like any speaker, incl subs, the 'suspension' will be stiff straight out of the box, so the woofers in particular will sound a bit 'nasally' to start with.

i'd still recommend not cranking things for the first couple hours, but there after it's just a matter of 'time' for them to run themselves in. depending on the brand/model, it may take a good 5~30 hours of playtime for them to really mellow out and perform optimally.

Have you thought about Sound Deadening??

I know Sound Deadening won't yeild as much of a gain as adding a 2nd driver - but at the same time it should help a lot. Even if you do add the 2nd driver (which I agree with both Shiny's and T-Bro's points on all that) - you should investigate sound deadning to finish off the system.

I wouldn't have a system without it after doing my current car.

[edit..]

Have you done the sums on just getting another set of VDO splits - then just don't use the tweeters?? Then you have the same brand driver when you add it to the door - and 2 spare tweeters - in case anything goes wrong.

Otherwise - maybe talk to the service department of VDO and see what they have - surely they'd have raw drivers in the service department...

[ March 18, 2003, 14:36: Message edited by: Stoked ]

Its likely they would sell some drivers to me alone, however VDO's presence is nothing short of non-existent. Very small when it comes to there speakers. HU's are a little different.

Ofcourse I wouldnt even think about buying $400 set of splits without sound deadening teh doors. Im in the process of it right now. Just completed the front door with 1 layer of paint and then matting and then some paint to finish off between the gaps. The results are fantastic, and this is using industrial stuff, not commercial.

Speaking of which, a 1m x .5m of the matt stuff is only $23!!! and a 4L can for only $25.60!

Cheap as 15 bags of chups!

Mid bass is through the roof. Before I did it I noticed my front splits just werent loud enough compared to the rear. now its the opposite. Cant recommend sound deadening enough... take it from a newbie... its worth every effort, whether your dealing with $150 clarions or $429 Type R's!!!

For the moment I am going to stick with the one set. Im almost happy enough with the clarions after SD'ing... almost