what are people's opinions on settings such as bass boost (+1...10db etc)
treble boost (+1....10db etc)
Loud(ness)
subsonic filters

and also things such as bass/treble frequency and phase settings

sound they be used for SQ? or do they just lead to clipping earlier?
or make sq 'worse'

I think you have answered your own question. I dont have any bass boost or even bass or treble adjustment in my HU, and although I have a 31 band eq and an AC FOUR.1 in dash EQ, both are set flat (bypassed). Let the recording engineers worry about tonal balance and leave system flat, unless you have tonal issues that you have the skill to address using a good EQ.

Anyway IMO if you need to use toanl adjustments then you should probably look at your system design or crossover point selection etc, as a well designed and executed system wont need and bass or treble adjustment IMO
peace
Cyberpunky

how about the loud button?
because when that is off, there is barely any bass anymore

btw, how loud is your system pumped up to when CAASQ is judged?

if there is virtually no bass without having the loudness on, either your gains are set incorrectly or your sub/subs are underpowered

i agree with cyberpunky, my system definately sounds better with everything set to flat...i think it starts sounding better while i'm playing around with the eq's but i always come back to the flat setting

cyber, do you just have the 31 band eq for RTA runs? i know of a few people that used to put the eq on to get a flat response on the RTA and then disable it for the aural part of judging

a subsonic filter is definately different to everything else you have mentioned there...i would nearly always use one, its just an extra reassuarance to me and i set it so low you cant hear the difference when its on or off

if your after SQ dont touch the loudness buttons, starting looking at your amplifier gains, thats where the fault it

people use that botton? oh well actually i did for a while too, had it on 'low' loud setting, but anyway...
all i know is that in my new setup, if i turn the loud setting on it sounds like absolute rubbish, i mean pure and simple it goes from 'hey this is good' to 'hey turn that crap off' so yeh anyway i think your question already got answered but i thought i'd just add that anyway

[ May 09, 2003, 13:45: Message edited by: PiMPiN5 ]

I keep all ma HU setting on Flat, even the EQ preset is on flat

been playing around with all the settings the past few days

bass boost is off on the amp: that helped making the amp play notes a bit clearer, so that is being left off pernamently

bass and treble boost on the hu: 0 db boost (ie none), off pernamently because im starting to find it sounds clearer.

However for some reason on my Alpine hu with the LOUD off the bass sounds muddy and there isn't much of it around. It is loud (volume) enough but not much bass existant and the bass notes and even mid bass notes don't seem to go low enough. My gains are are up fairly high but I am underpowering my sub by a fair bit. My mids aren't underpowered by as much but I still find it is lacking. Don't know what is going on because underpowering doesn't affect SQ but only volume and I find the volume is are than loud enough. Even if i crank it up to levels i don't want to listen to for daily driving, bass still isn't really there...

But so far, with most of the bass/treble boost aids off im quite happy Where bass isn't overpowering everything and feels much more balanced (disregarding road noise hhehe)

Try turning down the gains to the midbass and leave the loud button off.

I fitted the 30 band EQ for RTA portion of IASCA but as IASCA fell in a hole, so I just dont use it for anything.

SQ is judged a a moderate level. You should be able to talk to other judge comfortably.

As for the loud button, whats happening is your gain structure changes as volume on HU is adjusted. This is quite common and its also what loud button is designed for. I find that often its easier to just turn up volume, rather than kick in loud function but if you listen at low levels then hit the loud button. Just remeber to turn it off when you turn system up and you will have the best results at low or higher volumes.

In my system I have an Audio Control MVC (master volume control). This is designed to avoid gain structure issues. Richard Clark used a complex set up of motorised pots an his amps controlled by a micro computer to avoid gain structure issues.

Gain structure is the level of various freqs relative to the volume (signal level). At low levels mids may be high comparaed to bass and treble. When signal level increases, the signal may have different levels again at different freqs. The MVC allows the signal to reamin constant from HU (HUs volume is left at same level and not used to adjust volume) and thru signal path till just before amps, where it is attenuated by MVC, and so gain structure is constant regardless of volume.

Richard Clark's system adjusted the gains at each amp for every volume stting to keep gain structure constant.

Anyway a device like the MVC is around $1000, so unless you compete (and take it seriously) then setting your system so its spectrally balanced at the level you normal listen to is the way to go or the level it will be judged at in comp if you compete.
hope it helps
peace
Cyberpunky

ah thanks

i played around with it more today and yeah what you said helped a fair bit

what happens if u decide to add some bass or treble (eg. set it to +2) for a while
does this screw up the system?

i sometimes put treble to +2 for some hard-nrg songs...this ok?

just distorts quicker i believe
however i find the bass isn't as clear compared to when there is no bass boost

it can be very helpfulto give bass and treble small boosts, i have mine on +2 on both treble and bass, some songs dont need it as recordings can differ, for instance rock music can be painful on the ears with high treble settings but higher bass settings can really help.

with r&b though lower bass settings as the music already has plenty of low end that hte sub takes care of and boost the treble a bit as generally many r&b songs dont have as good or crisp highs

Freakin hell!!

I decided to check my head unit and heres the settings I had:

Bass: -2db
Treble: +12db (ouch!!!!)
Fad: Front 3 (even tho i've got stock speakers there for now)
Balance:center (of course)
Sub: Level 7 (goes to 8)

so what this thread is saying is to leave all HU presents dead flat and THEN set your gains?? Wow, i never knew that [brad writes this down]

defintely a good idea to leave your EQ flat and adjust your gains from their

having aftermarket speakers does help your cause in some way though...

After you have properly set the gains you can adjust the bass and treble settings to suit your musical needs

What ever happened to listening to a system the way YOU want to listen to it? I personally don't care for what recording engineers do with their recordings because experience has shown me that they can be the most inconsistant and self indulgent people in the whole recording process.

I create my own personal sound systems to offer the ability to tweak and adjust every facet of the sound 'shaping' including bass and treble boost (all ways use a little narrow Q tickle at 40Hz) and subwoofer level (guess what? every damn album offers a different level of bass output depending on the mix!).

I also like to be able to crank the crap out of it now and then and do some boomin' so I need to be able to make adjustments for this too.

If you set your system up for SQ ala 'being judged in complete silence with the engine off' your system will sound flat and lifeless for regular driving as soon and things like engine noise, wind noise, traffic noise and all those other things come into play. Add in the FACT that every album is recorded by a different engineer who has a different spin on tonal balance and you see why I always create sound system to be flexible enough to cope with all these moving variables.

Then let the user decided to tuning from there.

Damon Dupriez

Damon V World!!
j/k!!

I agree with both sides of this: leave flat / tweak the crap. Why?? (I'm not just fence sitting, Mum, honestly I'm not!!) Because there are two mitigating factors!

1, The equipment used, and
2, The person listening.

Every person is judges what sounds "good" differently, and it's nearly impossible to get two systems that are identical.

I've already had my ultimate system: Boston Pro's, Phoenix Gold amplification and equalisation. A 15-band EQ set roughly with an RTA, then, tweaked by ear. LP44 bass controller, the odd tweak of the treble setting, and all I had to do was sit back and enjoy. One of the simpler systems I've had, and I've never matched it yet.

Here's the statement: given that the quality of equipment is good, then only moderate post-setup equalisation should be necessary to listen to most musical genres.

If you've got $150 speakers up front, then they may not be up to the task of credible reproduction of music without EQ'ing the cr@p out of them: you've got to have the equipment to do it first.

Edit: oops - re-read Damon's last real paragraph: I think he's already said what I just said..... cr@p!!

[ May 14, 2003, 21:02: Message edited by: dasherhalo ]

Although my system has almost infinite adjustment, I only tweak the bass a little for regular listening Vs comps. Most engineers get it right, most of the time. Sure you find the odd dud recording but everything from motown to RnB, Rap, and even jazz, sound fine on my system, which IMO is what a system is about. If you have to constantly tweak for every disc, then Id be looking at whats wrong with your system design.

Anyway its all about getting sound you like, and so if you think it sounds better set a certain way, then thats all that matters, as your the only one that matters, but if you boost any freq then your system will clip earlier than if set flat. There are no free rides.

If you lower gains to compensate then your system will have lower output, than if set flat. Its that simple. When you do use an EQ to tweak a system you should only cut freqs not boost, as dips in response are obviously signal not there or less there, but peaks are offensive to the ear and easily detected and so should be cut out rather than boosting everything else and raising the noise floor.
peace
Cyberpunky

When evver I set up a system I set treble and bass to +1. I think it sounds better to get just a little from the H/U without overdriving anything. Now I'll admit, I don't win SQ comps, but I think it sounds good.

At the end of the day it's up to the owner/listener and the set up.

My girl sets hers to Bass +7-10 and treble +8-10 and she say's it sounds great (I htink it sounds $hit house) but she likes it. BTW it is a factory stereo in a 2000 Laser..

lol. nice one damon. met a few sound recording engineers in your time have we?

i find that albums that havent been recorded very well, i tend not to listen to in my car at all.
i used to get those various artists crappy things like hit machine volume 1,136 and have to turn the bass and treble down all the time.
after a while, i gave up. leave those discs at home because i found my musical tastes have swayed towards albums and bands that do good recordings, the kind of stuff you rarely see in the top forty chart.
those kind of bands rely on quantity and not quality and few of them ever do anything worth listening to in the first place.

i just know im gunna get flamed for that! what the hell. im on the dark side of 30. you youngsters will agree with me when you get to my age!

Amen to that