ok i have been going to the coburg dive-in alot latly and i have to admit having a halve decent system dose help but i was wondering about center chanels what type of speaker and how do i hook it up????
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Infinity 6 x 9's mmmm aarrggg good but crap,
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Full Version: center chanel
I tried centre channel in my car a few years back and wasnt happy with the results. I have also judged several cars with them and also didnt like the results. Just slide over closer to your date and tell her its just to get better sound, or not, but forget messing with centre ch as I dont think the drive ins are puttining out 5.1 anyway and if it gives you a semi legit excuse for getting closer to your date then its all good 
peace
Cyberpunky
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"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
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peace
Cyberpunky
------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more ?
my site
car audio whether we want to admit it or not, is a compromise.
lets say you had a pair of bose nautilus speakers with a massive gold plated amp and reference cd player set up in your house.
where would you sit to listen to it?
right in the middle of those two beautiful (to the ear) speakers, thats where!
sadly, we cant do that in a car, something about sitting in fron of a thing called a steering wheel?
so, we end up with a compromise. we sit too close to one speaker, or too far away from the other.
a centre channel is just another compromise.
it may be a better compromise for your system, and it may not.
my system has a centre channel. it was the last thing i installed in my car, after fooling around with my front speakers for months trying them out in all of the possible locations/angles.
in the end they ended up in the position that gave the best compromise. then i installed the centre channel to try to improve which it did, but while it solved one problem, it created another but overall, it was an improvement in my system.
i used a jaycar 4 inch two way speaker.
you dont need anything major for a centre and ideally you should cross over the lows and the highs out of the speaker so it only produces mid range, but its best to experiement to find the best set up.
your better trying to find the best locations for your front speakers rather than this band aid approach.
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my system.
Alipne CDA-7842R Head Unit
Sony XEC-1000 Crossover
Alpine 3527S Amplifier
Alpine MRV-F405 Amplifier
MB Quart Front Tweeters
Pioneer tsm-133 front mid range
Alpine SPR-692A Rear Fill Speakers
Pioneer TSW-251F sub woofers
Jaycar CS-2280 Centre Speaker
All in a sigma.... and proud of it!!!!
lets say you had a pair of bose nautilus speakers with a massive gold plated amp and reference cd player set up in your house.
where would you sit to listen to it?
right in the middle of those two beautiful (to the ear) speakers, thats where!
sadly, we cant do that in a car, something about sitting in fron of a thing called a steering wheel?
so, we end up with a compromise. we sit too close to one speaker, or too far away from the other.
a centre channel is just another compromise.
it may be a better compromise for your system, and it may not.
my system has a centre channel. it was the last thing i installed in my car, after fooling around with my front speakers for months trying them out in all of the possible locations/angles.
in the end they ended up in the position that gave the best compromise. then i installed the centre channel to try to improve which it did, but while it solved one problem, it created another but overall, it was an improvement in my system.
i used a jaycar 4 inch two way speaker.
you dont need anything major for a centre and ideally you should cross over the lows and the highs out of the speaker so it only produces mid range, but its best to experiement to find the best set up.
your better trying to find the best locations for your front speakers rather than this band aid approach.
------------------
my system.
Alipne CDA-7842R Head Unit
Sony XEC-1000 Crossover
Alpine 3527S Amplifier
Alpine MRV-F405 Amplifier
MB Quart Front Tweeters
Pioneer tsm-133 front mid range
Alpine SPR-692A Rear Fill Speakers
Pioneer TSW-251F sub woofers
Jaycar CS-2280 Centre Speaker
All in a sigma.... and proud of it!!!!
Unfortunately, when you have a problem like a poor stereo image (caused by sound ariving at your ears at the wrong time) adding more speakers is NEVER the answer!
Centre channel is best saved for your home theatre, where you want the 10 people in your audience to hear vocals from the screen.
I have yet to hear a home 5.1 set up that out-performed a pure SQ 2 channel set up. I have never heard depth and width like that of a pair of $60,000 electrostatics!
5.1 is meant to benefit the masses, not the purest.
9 times out of 10 if you want a better image in your car, upgrade the existing L&R speakers and/or their locations.
Phil
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Australian Champions
Multiple Record Holders
166.2dB (so far)
Centre channel is best saved for your home theatre, where you want the 10 people in your audience to hear vocals from the screen.
I have yet to hear a home 5.1 set up that out-performed a pure SQ 2 channel set up. I have never heard depth and width like that of a pair of $60,000 electrostatics!
5.1 is meant to benefit the masses, not the purest.
9 times out of 10 if you want a better image in your car, upgrade the existing L&R speakers and/or their locations.
Phil
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Australian Champions
Multiple Record Holders
166.2dB (so far)
for superb imaging in home speakers, you can't go past radial loudspeakers (completely different design to normal speakers)
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I'm an expert in spending other peoples money
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I'm an expert in spending other peoples money
quote:
Unfortunately, when you have a problem like a poor stereo image (caused by sound ariving at your ears at the wrong time) adding more speakers is NEVER the answer!
bingo, good one phil.
like i said about my system with a centre channel, i solved one problem, but created another and that was the problem i am left with.
the centre improved my soundstage greatly, mainly because its mounted right on top of the dash next the the base of the windscreen
but, my imaging suffered.
like i said, its a compromise. listening to the system, you must decide which you prefer, a good image but poor stage, or a good stage and poor image.
i should have mentioned the l-pad i have also installed on the centre channel within easy reach. i can just turn the centre speaker on and off and adjust the output level for whenever i decide which one i like better, good stage, or good image.
its a compromise, correct?
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my system.
Alipne CDA-7842R Head Unit
Sony XEC-1000 Crossover
Alpine 3527S Amplifier
Alpine MRV-F405 Amplifier
MB Quart Front Tweeters
Pioneer tsm-133 front mid range
Alpine SPR-692A Rear Fill Speakers
Pioneer TSW-251F sub woofers
Jaycar CS-2280 Centre Speaker
All in a sigma.... and proud of it!!!!
Ruhben
Although they claim it is ‘stereo’, I’m willing to bet good dollars that the signal transmitted at the Drive-In has very, very, very poor stereo separation. A near-mono signal in a car (where you sit closer to one speaker than the other) is worse to listen to that stereo.
Therefore to improve the Drive-In performance of your car audio system, I absolutely recomend going for the centre channel option. The good old Audio Control ESP3 should do the job nicely.
For a ‘no-frills’ centre channel use a bridged mono center-channel speaker (with a very stiff L-Pad and a 100Hz high pass filter).
For the record there is no such thing as ‘imaging’ in a home theatre system. To create imaging you need a true stereo signal. Every single piece of information in a home theatre sound track is recorded in MONO than panned left and right to emphasise what section of the screen it’s supposed to be emanate from.
PS.
Panning is when a sound engineer turns the volume of a particular sound up in the left channel (or the right) to make it appear like that sound is emanating from the left (or right) hand side of the sound stage. About 90% of all recordings (not just home movies) are recorded in this fashion. Software-wise, there are very, very few recordings that will actually stage and image.
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Craig Parker
Although they claim it is ‘stereo’, I’m willing to bet good dollars that the signal transmitted at the Drive-In has very, very, very poor stereo separation. A near-mono signal in a car (where you sit closer to one speaker than the other) is worse to listen to that stereo.
Therefore to improve the Drive-In performance of your car audio system, I absolutely recomend going for the centre channel option. The good old Audio Control ESP3 should do the job nicely.
For a ‘no-frills’ centre channel use a bridged mono center-channel speaker (with a very stiff L-Pad and a 100Hz high pass filter).
For the record there is no such thing as ‘imaging’ in a home theatre system. To create imaging you need a true stereo signal. Every single piece of information in a home theatre sound track is recorded in MONO than panned left and right to emphasise what section of the screen it’s supposed to be emanate from.
PS.
Panning is when a sound engineer turns the volume of a particular sound up in the left channel (or the right) to make it appear like that sound is emanating from the left (or right) hand side of the sound stage. About 90% of all recordings (not just home movies) are recorded in this fashion. Software-wise, there are very, very few recordings that will actually stage and image.
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Craig Parker
So thats why I buy cd's labled 'car stereo' and another exactly the same labled 'home stereo'.....
becuase they are recorded differently
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Thou shall notith steal car audio equipmentith, else thou shallith be hanged byith 4 gauge.
- The complete commandment
ICQ # 14733564
becuase they are recorded differently
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Thou shall notith steal car audio equipmentith, else thou shallith be hanged byith 4 gauge.
- The complete commandment
ICQ # 14733564
craig, since you seem to know sooooo much about it..
I write electronic music (dark dnb usually) I don't really know much about mastering, except I tweak each sound before mixdown, so it sounds half decent. Then I run it through T-racks for some nice virtual tube-amp compression analog eq, to boost up the levels and make it sound nicer.
But how do you suggest I make my recordings "stage" and "image"?
I'm asking as you are acting like you seem to know what sound engineers do to achieve this "staging" and "imaging"
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I'm an expert in spending other peoples money
I write electronic music (dark dnb usually) I don't really know much about mastering, except I tweak each sound before mixdown, so it sounds half decent. Then I run it through T-racks for some nice virtual tube-amp compression analog eq, to boost up the levels and make it sound nicer.
But how do you suggest I make my recordings "stage" and "image"?
I'm asking as you are acting like you seem to know what sound engineers do to achieve this "staging" and "imaging"
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I'm an expert in spending other peoples money
Your brain calculates the difference in arrival times to your left and right ears in order to determine where in space an object is located.
A good quality audiophile recording (Chesky, Telarc, Mapleshade etc) will normally use minimal mike and editing techniques to record a pure L/R stereo track, and leave the rest up to your brain. This is normally achieved by using just a left and a right mic, and laying down a recording in one hit, with no editing at all. Often these companies will give complete recording notes (right down to the type of cables used) on the CD liner.
These recordings are as close as you can get to a real performance. The draw-back is the types of music on offer. If you like Classical or Jazz, you're in luck!
It probably comes as a surprise to most who know me for building hard core SPL cars, but I love Classical music! In fact my girlfriend is a Violinist, I love hearing a good orchestra (especially when Yana plays). Doesn't stop me loving techno at 150dB however!
Most "commercial" recordings record each piece of a track individually (vocals, drums etc) and then edit the lot together, they decide where to place each part of the music by varying the level the each of the L & R channels.
VERY rarely do they vary the arrival TIME of each track L to R, and here in lies the difference. This is why very few commercially mixed tracks truly "image".
There are some very well recorded electronic music tracks, take Pet Shop Boys and New Order etc, they often have a complex and full soundstage with lots of layered effects that sound great on a good system.
But still, there's nothing like listening to a truly awesome set of home speakers, and being able to close your eyes and pick out each voice in a choir of 100+ Even the very best cars I've built and judged fall short of this. It's just so bloody hard stuck in a tiny glass lined box like a car!
No reason to not keep trying though!
Phil
------------------
Australian Champions
Multiple Record Holders
166.2dB (so far)
A good quality audiophile recording (Chesky, Telarc, Mapleshade etc) will normally use minimal mike and editing techniques to record a pure L/R stereo track, and leave the rest up to your brain. This is normally achieved by using just a left and a right mic, and laying down a recording in one hit, with no editing at all. Often these companies will give complete recording notes (right down to the type of cables used) on the CD liner.
These recordings are as close as you can get to a real performance. The draw-back is the types of music on offer. If you like Classical or Jazz, you're in luck!
It probably comes as a surprise to most who know me for building hard core SPL cars, but I love Classical music! In fact my girlfriend is a Violinist, I love hearing a good orchestra (especially when Yana plays). Doesn't stop me loving techno at 150dB however!
Most "commercial" recordings record each piece of a track individually (vocals, drums etc) and then edit the lot together, they decide where to place each part of the music by varying the level the each of the L & R channels.
VERY rarely do they vary the arrival TIME of each track L to R, and here in lies the difference. This is why very few commercially mixed tracks truly "image".
There are some very well recorded electronic music tracks, take Pet Shop Boys and New Order etc, they often have a complex and full soundstage with lots of layered effects that sound great on a good system.
But still, there's nothing like listening to a truly awesome set of home speakers, and being able to close your eyes and pick out each voice in a choir of 100+ Even the very best cars I've built and judged fall short of this. It's just so bloody hard stuck in a tiny glass lined box like a car!
No reason to not keep trying though!
Phil
------------------
Australian Champions
Multiple Record Holders
166.2dB (so far)
Just a quick point,
If you are going to experiment with a center channels the choice of speaker IS important. Because the vocals are going to be heard through it.
Apart from the fader control to adjust volume, and the high pass cap to limit low frequency response, you may need to add an low pass filter to eliminate cone break up etc.
Craig - The ESP 3 / ESP 2 from audio control are no longer available.
To end let me say this, Installation is everything, you must try and get every thing sounding as sweet as you can before you apply the center channel Band-Aid. (In some vehicle it works very well, in most it just confuses the image)
If you are going to experiment with a center channels the choice of speaker IS important. Because the vocals are going to be heard through it.
Apart from the fader control to adjust volume, and the high pass cap to limit low frequency response, you may need to add an low pass filter to eliminate cone break up etc.
Craig - The ESP 3 / ESP 2 from audio control are no longer available.
To end let me say this, Installation is everything, you must try and get every thing sounding as sweet as you can before you apply the center channel Band-Aid. (In some vehicle it works very well, in most it just confuses the image)
I guess take a look at T-Bro's setup. It it ProLogic II ?
An example of a very well executed setup and installation.
(Yes I am post whoring on old threads to stimulate some discussions, so what )
An example of a very well executed setup and installation.
(Yes I am post whoring on old threads to stimulate some discussions, so what )
how would you aim the centre speaker to achieve the imaging people are after when investing in a centre speaker?
facing upwards?
facing right down the middle between the two seats?
facing upwards?
facing right down the middle between the two seats?
Wow, talk about rehashing an old post, this one started two years ago!
Good work!
Damon
Good work!
Damon
QUOTE
Originally posted by Incar Phil:
I have yet to hear a home 5.1 set up that out-performed a pure SQ 2 channel set up. I have never heard depth and width like that of a pair of $60,000 electrostatics!
5.1 is meant to benefit the masses, not the purest.
So true man, so true!!
I have yet to hear a home 5.1 set up that out-performed a pure SQ 2 channel set up. I have never heard depth and width like that of a pair of $60,000 electrostatics!
5.1 is meant to benefit the masses, not the purest.
what if supposed that you have a centre speaker with 2 drivers, one directed at each side, to try and even up the stereo sound?
ok this was like 2 name changes ago now!
and im still stirring up trubble!
and im still stirring up trubble!
my system is dolby prologic II currently running 3.1 but soon to be 5.1 for some fun. the effect is stunning and i love it, a properly executed centre channel gives you so much control over imaging in a car where youre stuck in the corner. it takes alot of time to get it tuned just right as you have 3 speakers to regulate and not just two. but when done right, your centre image is there, along with left and right panning, and its almost as good for the passenger too.
centre channels are NOT ideal for sound quality, but in a car you're screwed anyway, so it helps to overcome the offset listening location, making the dash come to life with balanced and accurate sonic images.
but if you want hardcore results, i do recommend a proper dolby decoder unit, just doing mono (i tried it) is good but not as refined or accurate.
centre channels are NOT ideal for sound quality, but in a car you're screwed anyway, so it helps to overcome the offset listening location, making the dash come to life with balanced and accurate sonic images.
but if you want hardcore results, i do recommend a proper dolby decoder unit, just doing mono (i tried it) is good but not as refined or accurate.
It should be pointed out though, that while Simon says (haha) they are not ideal for SQ, his setup still came first place in the Sydney Autoexpo [CAASQ] Amatuer Show class SQ competition.
IMO - it sounded damn nice and quite accurate
IMO - it sounded damn nice and quite accurate
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