This is mainly aimed to the SQ judges amongst us. BUT......here is my saga.

I love demoing Eagles - Last Resort track on my system.

A lot of tuning has been done to that track, as it is one of my favorites, and a track I often use to show the system off to non believers (yes they do exist ).

Now for a while I have been more than happy with the sound, imaging, clarity, etc etc.

THEN........

I cranked up the Home Audio setup today (doesn't get much use these days) and the sound of that track absolutely creamed what it sounds like in the car.

SO.....my question to you guys:

Even in the best award winning SQ setups, are they still even close to a half decent HiFi setup ?

------------------
Manager - Car Audio Australia
Advertising / Marketing / HTML
Sound Quality System:

- Vehicle: 2000 Mitsubishi Lancer VRX - 4 Door
- Head Unit: Clarion 9675z w/ 6 Stack Optic Fibre Link
- Front Stage: Total Recoil 8", Dynaudio MD140/2 3.5", Xtant XiS2.6 1"
- Rear Fill: Come on, be serious
- Crossovers: Custom 2 way Passive by Audioart & Technologies
- Subwoofers: Hertz Air Mille 3800 15" Infinite Baffle
- Amplifiers: Butler Tube Driver Blue 2150, Butler Tube Driver Blue 4150
- Power Delivery: Generic USA Made 1F Capacitor, Odyssey 600 Dry Cell Battery
- Lighting Effects: Neostream Neons, Flexiglow Cable

no. never have, never will!

i always thought home hi-fis were better sounding then car audio systems, but thats jsut my opinion.

------------------
¸.·´¯`·¸±ðmeë..®¸.·´¯`·.¸

-==System Out Of Action==-

Pioneer KEH-P5950
Pioneer CDX-P650
MTX T54S
Kicker IX702
Jaycar AA-0435
JL 12" W3-D4
Coustic HS-92v
Stinger RCA


DOOF DOOF DOOF
"...stop having 'all bass and nothing else'!?!"

You will never get a car stereo to image like a home stereo....lets face it at home you have the perfect seat, smack bang centre of the speakers, also with speaker stands or floor standing models tweeters are at eye level and the speakers can also be moved as much as you like (a luxury you don't have in a car) to create that perfect soundstage.
I always get dissapointed when listening to a cd at home then putting it in my car when going for a drive.

------------------
Alpine CDA-7939E CD/Tuner
Alpine ERA-G320 EQ/Time alignment
Alpine CHA-S624
PPI 4240 amp(bridged 2 x 120) runing Alpine DDC-F17A splits
PPI 2360 amp running rear fill
PPI 2360 amp (bridged 1 x 360 running 2 x JL audio 12W0-8

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnA:
I always get dissapointed when listening to a cd at home then putting it in my car when going for a drive.

---

Aww John, it's all relative. I'm the exact opposite to you. I look forward to crankin the car stereo. But then I guess that you're home hifi isn't a computer, with a cheapo amp and ford factory spkrs

I understand and agree regarding the imaging, stage height etc.

But the actual warmth, accuracy, depth, frequency response ?

I'm thinking it is perhaps more to do with cabin size Vs Lounge room size ?

------------------
Manager - Car Audio Australia
Advertising / Marketing / HTML
Sound Quality System:

- Vehicle: 2000 Mitsubishi Lancer VRX - 4 Door
- Head Unit: Clarion 9675z w/ 6 Stack Optic Fibre Link
- Front Stage: Total Recoil 8", Dynaudio MD140/2 3.5", Xtant XiS2.6 1"
- Rear Fill: Come on, be serious
- Crossovers: Custom 2 way Passive by Audioart & Technologies
- Subwoofers: Hertz Air Mille 3800 15" Infinite Baffle
- Amplifiers: Butler Tube Driver Blue 2150, Butler Tube Driver Blue 4150
- Power Delivery: Generic USA Made 1F Capacitor, Odyssey 600 Dry Cell Battery
- Lighting Effects: Neostream Neons, Flexiglow Cable

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marc Rushton:
I understand and agree regarding the imaging, stage height etc.

But the actual warmth, accuracy, depth, frequency response ?

I'm thinking it is perhaps more to do with cabin size Vs Lounge room size ?

---

It has some to do with that. But you also have to remember home audio stuff is just of better quality than car gear. Have a look at the size of a car amp and compare it to the size of a decent home amp and youll start to see what i mean. For all our technical wizadry good quality stuff is still big and heavy. Then consider the flexibility in designing loudspeakers that will be assembled in custom made boxes exactly for the purpose. And situated at ear level, compared to shoving splits in the lower section of a door frame.

Edit: Plus look at the market for quality home gear v that of car stereo gear. The market for home use is much larger not to mention been established for a much longer period of time. Hence more money has been and still is poured into r&d.

------------------
Bang The Head That Doesnt Bang

[Edited 1 time by Poddy on 09 December 2001 at 21:37]

i guess you just can't compare the environment of a car cabin (especially when you're driving!) with that of inside a room.

and home hifi is much better value. my Rotel preamp + 2x power amps (2x60WRMS each at 8ohm; for biamping my speakers) for ~$1200. can't buy nice quality car stuff for that. and home stuff runs off 240V; now that's cruisy to produce 2x60WRMS.

but i don't have a sub at home.

------------------

Alfa 156

*headunit: Philips RC659
*stacker: Philips RC032
sitting around waiting to be installed (when I have time!):
*headunit: Alpine CDA-7949E
*stacker: Alpine CHA-S624
*fronts: Boston Accoustic RC61 6" splits
*rears: Polk Audio EX602 6" co-axials
*sub: Polk Audio Momo MM120 12"
*amps: Alpine MRV-F400, Alpine MRV-1000, Alpine MRP-T130
*power: Optima Yellow-top, Stinger cable, Lightning Audio 1.0F cap

quote:

---

But the actual warmth, accuracy, depth, frequency response ?

---

quote:

---

I'm thinking it is perhaps more to do with cabin size Vs Lounge room size ?

---

Spot on...try this little test...take the splits you have in your car as an example. 8" midbass 3.5" mid and 1" tweeter, now make some nice boxes for them with the bottom portion ported for the 8" get some custom crossovers and plug those suckers into your home amp and take a listen...
Only problem is you might not want to put them back in your car again.

------------------
Alpine CDA-7939E CD/Tuner
Alpine ERA-G320 EQ/Time alignment
Alpine CHA-S624
PPI 4240 amp(bridged 2 x 120) runing Alpine DDC-F17A splits
PPI 2360 amp running rear fill
PPI 2360 amp (bridged 1 x 360 running 2 x JL audio 12W0-8

just in the slight off chance that my car is not written off, where are those pics you promised of your front end marc?

you never know, they might come in handy if i still have a lancer...

Damn sorry mate, depending on what time I get home tommorow night I will break out the digi cam for you.

------------------
Manager - Car Audio Australia
Advertising / Marketing / HTML
Sound Quality System:

- Vehicle: 2000 Mitsubishi Lancer VRX - 4 Door
- Head Unit: Clarion 9675z w/ 6 Stack Optic Fibre Link
- Front Stage: Total Recoil 8", Dynaudio MD140/2 3.5", Xtant XiS2.6 1"
- Rear Fill: Come on, be serious
- Crossovers: Custom 2 way Passive by Audioart & Technologies
- Subwoofers: Hertz Air Mille 3800 15" Infinite Baffle
- Amplifiers: Butler Tube Driver Blue 2150, Butler Tube Driver Blue 4150
- Power Delivery: Generic USA Made 1F Capacitor, Odyssey 600 Dry Cell Battery
- Lighting Effects: Neostream Neons, Flexiglow Cable

cheers,

just wondering what you think about those digi cams nowadays, i WAS thinking about buying one (before i crashed me car) and just wanted thoughts on them. is it worth the price, quality etc...

funny this was mentioned, but this weekend i have been auditioning home audio for myself, and for a similar price as my car system, the home setup was about one million times better, unbeleivable (sorry im a bit new to home theatre as some may see). Anyways, after 3 hours at the last store i have set my sights on some krix speakers....as for the car, i think i will leave it as is forever (*MIGHT* upgrade the splits for the next car) as i have wasted so much time and money on it as is, sorry, that is probably blasphemy on this site


------------------
teamazm.com -Australia's premier modified cars website

Try before you buy, and do it right the first time...

this upsets me so. please pass me a tissue.

------------------
pioneer 8050
bullet splits
pioneer 6x9's (horns)
12 stacker
jaycar 2x150 amp
two jaycar 2x84 amps
1x kicker S12L7 ported or sealed depending on my mood.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marc Rushton:
This is mainly aimed to the SQ judges amongst us. BUT......here is my saga.

I love demoing Eagles - Last Resort track on my system.

A lot of tuning has been done to that track, ...

SO.....my question to you guys:

Even in the best award winning SQ setups, are they still even close to a half decent HiFi setup ?

---

A system should be tuned to play all music as best as possible, not just your fav track, and as your system is quite sophisticated and has a lot of adjustment, you may not have it tuned to its full potential. Us SQ judges use the same test disc everytime and so we know how it should sound. I use this same disc to tweak all the systems I tune, as i have heard it several thousand times and so know what to listen for with it. I dont play my favourite track as 2pac or Nelly aint going to tell me much.

As to your question, well my car sounds better than my home system and my home system is nothing to sneeze at, but you could spend more on a home system and you may get slightly better SQ than my car. It all depends on how much work you want to put into the car, as a home is far easier to set up and so may appear to be better or easier etc but it depends on your definition of decent.

just my $0.02 worth
Cyberpunky


------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more ?
my site

I hate to post without content but....

Welcome back Cyber We've all missed you

Is this permanent, or just popping in for some SQ advice?

------------------
Head Unit
- Blaupunkt Honolulu CD50
Front Stage
- MTX Thunder 5000 4"
Front Amp
- Re/Sponse AA-0432 2x84wrms
Subwoofer
- JL 15W3-D2 15"
Subwoofer Amp
- US Tech US1000 1x500wrms

Plus all Jaycar wiring, dist blocks and crossover

A good home system will always beat a very good car system, no risk.

My home system is a hundred times better whether it is subjective or objective basis.

BUT.....the car stereo thing is a different kind of listening experience, which you can enjoy in a whole different way.

------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow!
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Amplification - Alpine MRV-F407
2 Channels to front splits
2 Channels bridged to Sub
Front splits - Bostons RC820. Faded completely to front.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Alpine Type R 10" in sealed box. (ported box "in the works")

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chronos:
[B]Welcome back Cyber [/B]

---

Ditto

Welcome back Cyberpunky!
hope its permanent!

tom.

------------------
¸.·´¯`·¸±ðmeë..®¸.·´¯`·.¸

-==System Out Of Action==-

Pioneer KEH-P5950
Pioneer CDX-P650
MTX T54S
Kicker IX702
Jaycar AA-0435
JL 12" W3-D4
Coustic HS-92v
Stinger RCA


DOOF DOOF DOOF
"...stop having 'all bass and nothing else'!?!"

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chronos:
[B]Welcome back Cyber [/B]

---

that goes twice


------------------
Pioneer DEH-P9250
Pioneer CDX-P1230s
Precision Power PC4400 <currently for sale>
Earthquake 200DHC
Focal 165V
-no rear's atm-
Soundstream SPL12 x4
Stinger accessories
Odyssey 1000 x2

Yep Im back. Thanks Chonos, Au2 and GMHVNS for the welcome back
peace
Punky

------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more ?
my site

i have to agree with cyber when i say that car stereos can get quite close to a high end home hi-fi experience in terms of sound quality and the ability to reproduce live music with convincing realism. indeed a hi-end car stereo can sh** all over virtually ANY of the stereos you see for sale in the electronics and appliance stores.

however, the main reasons why a hi-end home stereo will always sound better than a car are:

- home stereo speakers are especially designed for their cabinets (enclosures) meaning they are tuned for optimal smoothness and extension. car speakers on the other hand use whatever cavity or hole you screw them to, and being designed for infinite baffle, wont enjoy the same level of suspension accuracy as a home set

- a home stereos speakers can be spread widely with the listening position in between. this creates a sound stage with width and ambience and size that you just can get on a dash board, with accurate placement of vocal images that require alot of manipulation and processing to get somewhat right in a car.

- a car interior features alot of different surfaces, some hard, some curvy, some soft, and some flat. things like glass bounce treble everywhere, velour and cloth absorb sound waves, then one speaker will have to negotiate a steering column and shorter pathlength while the other doesnt before it gets to your ears. this creates an irregular frequency response, with peaks and dips that often require equalisation to smooth out.

other than that, if the hard work is done, you can get a car stereo to sound like a little hi-end home stereo inside your car and damn does it feel good when you start to approach that.

------------------
Custom SQ System - Nearing Completion:

- Head Unit: Kenwood KDC-4080R 1.8v Single CD (Replacing with Clarion DRX-9675z)
- Front Stage: KEF Uni-Q 160Q Co-incident Speakers (Mounted on-axis in pods)
- Rear Fill: Pioneer TS-A6947 2-way 6x9's (Disabled for SQ)
- Signal Processors: 2x SOON to be installed 30-band Audiocontrol EQT's
- Subwoofers: 2 x 12" Earthquake BR12's (Ported Box Tuned to 33.75hz)
- Amplifiers: 2 x Kicker Impulse IX-404 4x40WRMS (Sub's Bridged 2x120WRMS)
- Power Delivery: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Power Cap, 560 CCA Batt' & 110A Alt'
- Power Cabling: Aerpro 4 Gauge to 8 Gauge OFC Cable
- Speaker Cabling: Re/sponse High Definition OFC Monitor Cable
- RCA Cables: Generic Unshielded (Being Replaced with Stinger Hyper Leads)
- Fusing and Distribution: Stinger CPT & Custom Pro Gold Plated Blocks
- Total System Power: 400WRMS Nominal @ 12.5v (Engine Off)
- Lighting Effects: Underseat Blue Neon Strobed to the Bass Beat

*Protected by custom security system and owner with Sicilian background

[Edited 1 time by T-Bro on 10 December 2001 at 19:45]

just buy a fairlane marc!!

they are bigger than most homes!! hahahaha

------------------
zoom zoom zoom
2x JL 12w6's
2x 2x150RMS response amps
260W kenwood 6x9's
4" philips splits
still waiting for midbass up front and the JVC mp3 deck...

1974 MAZDA RX4 Coupe 13B Bridgeport SOON TO HAVE A S4 RX7 HIGH FLOWED TURBO BOLTED TO IT :)
professional **** stirrer, and defender of all that is wankel :)
ICQ = 71302972
http://users.bigpond.net.au/broomy/

haha broomy, I could fir my home theatre setup in your car broomy, including rear projection screen

Don't get me wrong guys, it sounds excellent, but like I said, I still wondered how close you can get a High End Car System comparing to a High End Hi Fi system.

------------------
Manager - Car Audio Australia
Advertising / Marketing / HTML
Sound Quality System:

- Vehicle: 2000 Mitsubishi Lancer VRX - 4 Door
- Head Unit: Clarion 9675z w/ 6 Stack Optic Fibre Link
- Front Stage: Total Recoil 8", Dynaudio MD140/2 3.5", Xtant XiS2.6 1"
- Rear Fill: Come on, be serious
- Crossovers: Custom 2 way Passive by Audioart & Technologies
- Subwoofers: Hertz Air Mille 3800 15" Infinite Baffle
- Amplifiers: Butler Tube Driver Blue 2150, Butler Tube Driver Blue 4150
- Power Delivery: Generic USA Made 1F Capacitor, Odyssey 600 Dry Cell Battery
- Lighting Effects: Neostream Neons, Flexiglow Cable

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cyberpunky:
Yep Im back. Thanks Chonos, Au2 and GMHVNS for the welcome back
peace
Punky

---

what no thanks to me?



------------------
¸.·´¯`·¸±ðmeë..®¸.·´¯`·.¸

-==System Out Of Action==-

Pioneer KEH-P5950
Pioneer CDX-P650
MTX T54S
Kicker IX702
Jaycar AA-0435
JL 12" W3-D4
Coustic HS-92v
Stinger RCA


DOOF DOOF DOOF
"...stop having 'all bass and nothing else'!?!"

DOH! and an extra special thanks to Tomee, as I missed him first time round sorry man, my bad

For sure the car is more challenging than the home as just transfer function alone makes it harder not to mention the complex surfaces and shapes that T bro has pointed out.

The biggest problem with getting really Hi end in a car is often the $$$ and expertise it takes. Even if you spend big, it wont be automatic that it compares to home hi end, as fitting and tuning are the most important factors, where as in the home you can pretty much buy good gear and set it up your self and get awesome results.

Car audio is typically a far bigger challenge and needs expertise in far more disciplines than home audio does, and this is reflected in that the home audio crowd are now recruiting car audio ppl, as they now realise that a car audio pro will have a solid grounding in not only audio, but acoustics, physco acoustics, electronics, fabrication, system design etc etc.

Car audio is on the bleeding edge of audio technology and only old home audiophiles, who still cling to their vinyl will be saying a good system in a car doesnt make sense. They are just now starting to realise that digital and 5.1 etc leaves vinyl for dead. They may one day realise that a car is a great place to listen to tunes as no one knocks on the door, you can crank it with out the neighbours calling the cops etc. I cant imagine anything better than taking on the great ocean roads twists and turns, with some awesome tunes pumpin

The reality is we all spend a lot more time in our cars these days and so it makes a lot of sense to have a good system in your car, as many ppl these days dont spend much time at home listening to tunes, so the car is a great place for doing that.

Anyway to get back to the point, yes a car can be as good as the home, but droping some speakers in factory locations etc isnt going to compare to the home, it takes far more than that

just my $0.02 worth
peace
cyberpunky

------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us!
Like to know more ?
my site

[Edited 1 time by Cyberpunky on 10 December 2001 at 22:35]

IMO there's just no way a high-end car system goes near a high-end home system. The possibilities are just endless in a home system.

There's also a whole bunch different hardware available - ribbon tweeters are just not seriously happening in a car etc.

I have a mate, with more money than sense, who has a $200k system. Sounds pretty nice.....

But like I said before, the car listening experience is different and has its own things going for it. I like to get "buried in it" in the car which I can't really do at home the same way. But if it's realism u want, home is the place, by far (especially if you got deep pockets.....)



------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow!
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Amplification - Alpine MRV-F407
2 Channels to front splits
2 Channels bridged to Sub
Front splits - Bostons RC820. Faded completely to front.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Alpine Type R 10" in sealed box. (ported box "in the works")

Critter, you obviously havent heard Angelo Kancis BMW, as its as good as any home system I have ever heard(Its as good as his home system that cost $250,000 IMO). I tend to think my cars not too shabby either but obviously Im biased

Angelo and I use an apogeee DAC in the car and have systems that are fully fibre optic (digital), and so are a lot better than your average factory systems.

The problem is are we comparing apples to oranges etc, as how good do you want your sound in a car and what compromises are OK, as most car systems are highly compromised and a home just doesnt have the same problems that force you to compromise or work so hard to get the same or similar results
peace
Cyberpunky

------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us!
Like to know more ?
my site

[Edited 1 time by Cyberpunky on 10 December 2001 at 22:48]

I'd like to hear that Beemer...or for that matter yours if they're that good

Be happy to change my mind with some evidence, but till now I haven't heard anything even close to my home system, which is to be fair worth more than my car....

------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow!
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Amplification - Alpine MRV-F407
2 Channels to front splits
2 Channels bridged to Sub
Front splits - Bostons RC820. Faded completely to front.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Alpine Type R 10" in sealed box. (ported box "in the works")

Angelos car is being rebuilt for a 5.1 system so you wont be able to hear how good it was in just stereo but no doubt the 5.1 will be awesome too.

Ill be going up to Dubbo next year for toyota nats at easter, so that may save you a trip down here to hear my car.

Anyway I know what your saying as I have heard very few cars that are as good as really hi end home audio
peace
Cyberpunky

------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more ?
my site

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cyberpunky:
yes a car can be as good as the home, but droping some speakers in factory locations etc isnt going to compare to the home, it takes far more than that

---

And far more than that has been done in my car, some very nice equipment has been used, yet I still feel there's more to be achieved.
But where do I go from here? What's left to improve?


------------------
Manager - Car Audio Australia
Advertising / Marketing / HTML
Sound Quality System:

- Vehicle: 2000 Mitsubishi Lancer VRX - 4 Door
- Head Unit: Clarion 9675z w/ 6 Stack Optic Fibre Link
- Front Stage: Total Recoil 8", Dynaudio MD140/2 3.5", Xtant XiS2.6 1"
- Rear Fill: Come on, be serious
- Crossovers: Custom 2 way Passive by Audioart & Technologies
- Subwoofers: Hertz Air Mille 3800 15" Infinite Baffle
- Amplifiers: Butler Tube Driver Blue 2150, Butler Tube Driver Blue 4150
- Power Delivery: Generic USA Made 1F Capacitor, Odyssey 600 Dry Cell Battery
- Lighting Effects: Neostream Neons, Flexiglow Cable

marc,

as my sig suggests, im about to install a pair of EQT's as i think these will provide the finishing touch to my system. it sounds incredibly good at the moment, a home audiophile friend of mine who has a $10k system says it sounds like a little hi-end home stereo in there but the problem is that the sound stage is biased towards the listener, and that the frequcny response needs to be a little more smooth and flat. so enter the equalisers.

i see you arent running any stero Eq's (apart from the nice mono ones the clarion provides). possibly, stereo 1/3 octave equalisation could be an area for you to improve your system. anyway, i'm banking on my EQT's getting my image placement where it should be, and my front stage sounding balanced and smooth!

------------------
Custom SQ System - Nearing Completion:

- Head Unit: Clarion DRX-9675z, 4v preouts, 24 bit DAC
- Front Stage: KEF Uni-Q 160Q Co-incident Speakers
- Rear Fill: Pioneer TS-A6947 2-way 6x9's (Disabled for SQ)
- Signal Processors: 2x SOON to be installed 30-band Audiocontrol EQT's
- Subwoofers: 2 x 12" Earthquake BR12's (Ported Box Tuned to 33.75hz)
- Amplifiers: 2 x Kicker Impulse IX-404 4x40WRMS
- Power Delivery: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Power Cap, 560 CCA Batt' & 110A Alt'
- Power Cabling: Aerpro 4 Gauge to 8 Gauge OFC Cable
- Speaker Cabling: Re/sponse High Definition OFC Monitor Cable
- RCA Cables: Generic Unshielded (Being Replaced with Stinger Hyper Leads)
- Fusing and Distribution: Stinger CPT & Custom Pro Gold Plated Blocks
- Total System Power: 400WRMS Nominal @ 12.5v (Engine Off)
- Lighting Effects: Underseat Blue Neon Strobed to the Bass Beat

*There are two kinds of people in this world: those who have kick ass car stereos - and those who wish they did.

eq's dont always help..don't get me wrong, i've got a 31band 1/3 octave in my system and won't take it out for anybody, but you should only need an eq if you have serious dips or peaks in your frequency response

have your frequency spectrum analyised on a scope or RTA and if it needs improving, look into it, however i doubt marc's will need much if any at all...

also, marc i was in audioart again yesterday (after being there for the meet on sunday) and yanndy got some new scanspeak's in, which may be worth a look if your at all interested...he said (and this is a direct quote) "they will piss all over the dyns"
i didnt get to hear them, as they just came in, but they still looked impressive and will be hasseling him for a listen sometime soon

anyway, what is it exactly that was better about the home system compared to the car?
if you work that out, i'm sure you'll find out what needs to be changed in the car

------------------
Keep it loud - And make me proud

I've had it on the RTA, I had Yanddy's one sitting here for a couple of weeks, so I had good oppurtunity to experiment.

There was nothing showing up that needed addressing in my opinion, apart from being a little bass heavy (expected with a 15" though)

It's hard to explain what I think I am lacking, but I am beginning to think there is something missing in the middle, with my front stage consisting of the 8" 3.5" 1" I am thinking maybe ditch the 8"'s and go for 6"'s again.

It has everything I like, natural sound, warmth (Tube Drivers ) but what it lacks is PRESENCE. If there is such a thing.

It has the ability to go very loud, much louder than you need for SQ, and still be clear, but lacks a presence. I'm finding it a little hard to explain.

Again, I think it simply comes down to size of the cabin compared to listening in a room.

Don't get me wrong, it is the best setup I have heard other than Cyberpunkys (but mine goes louder)

I am just still not happy though, I WANT MORE.

I don't think I should be changing components, it was all carefully selected, with many hours help from Yanddy.

So far though, considering:
Dropping the 15" IB setup for a 10" Sealed.
Changing the 8" in the front doors for 6" ?

WHat you guys think will be the result of the above ?

------------------
Manager - Car Audio Australia
Advertising / Marketing / HTML
Sound Quality System:

- Vehicle: 2000 Mitsubishi Lancer VRX - 4 Door
- Head Unit: Clarion 9675z w/ 6 Stack Optic Fibre Link
- Front Stage: Total Recoil 8", Dynaudio MD140/2 3.5", Xtant XiS2.6 1"
- Rear Fill: Come on, be serious
- Crossovers: Custom 2 way Passive by Audioart & Technologies
- Subwoofers: Hertz Air Mille 3800 15" Infinite Baffle
- Amplifiers: Butler Tube Driver Blue 2150, Butler Tube Driver Blue 4150
- Power Delivery: Generic USA Made 1F Capacitor, Odyssey 600 Dry Cell Battery
- Lighting Effects: Neostream Neons, Flexiglow Cable

I wouldnt rush to change anything yet Marc, as i think you may be able to get better from what you have. I have offered to tune it before and am offering again. lets play with it and see if it cant be tweaked more to your liking.
Let me know if you want to let me loose on your system
peace
Punky

------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more ?
my site

i got no clue realy so im going out on a lim here

would there be a diference if u changed from a 8 to 6 ?? they would still be playing the same **** so there wont be any diference ???

and if i was u i would go 12" 1 10 is just a lil to small

but ay its your car your money and your ears do wot ever u want

ps we missed u punky


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- Why Buy The Cow Wen The Milk Is Free -
(thanks jerry)
- 148.8db its just a lil bit louder now -
- System = 1 x JayCar Shop -
- 2 first places and a second so far-
- PuRpS -

[Edited 1 time by PuRpS on 11 December 2001 at 23:15]

Alright I will take you up on that offer.

Time and place and I am there.

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Manager - Car Audio Australia
Advertising / Marketing / HTML
Sound Quality System:

- Vehicle: 2000 Mitsubishi Lancer VRX - 4 Door
- Head Unit: Clarion 9675z w/ 6 Stack Optic Fibre Link
- Front Stage: Total Recoil 8", Dynaudio MD140/2 3.5", Xtant XiS2.6 1"
- Rear Fill: Come on, be serious
- Crossovers: Custom 2 way Passive by Audioart & Technologies
- Subwoofers: Hertz Air Mille 3800 15" Infinite Baffle
- Amplifiers: Butler Tube Driver Blue 2150, Butler Tube Driver Blue 4150
- Power Delivery: Generic USA Made 1F Capacitor, Odyssey 600 Dry Cell Battery
- Lighting Effects: Neostream Neons, Flexiglow Cable

Firstly, Welcome back Cybes! I'd have said it earlier but I have been having hell trouble with my phone line...

quote:

---

Originally posted by T-Bro:
marc,


as my sig suggests, im about to install a pair of EQT's as i think these will provide the finishing touch to my system. it sounds incredibly good at the moment, a home audiophile friend of mine who has a $10k system says it sounds like a little hi-end home stereo in there but the problem is that the sound stage is biased towards the listener, and that the frequcny response needs to be a little more smooth and flat. so enter the equalisers.

---

I wouldn't have suggested EQ's for yours, T-Bro... I'd have suggested the Alpine PXA-H600 time/phase alignment/EQ processor that I use... Next meeting I'll give you a good and proper demo of it...

It fixes up the "pulls to the right" imaging problem and also has several EQ bands to play around with. I admit it's not as flexible as the one's you're installing, but it's good enough for a moderate system IMHO.


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Rich.
CarAudioAustralia NSW Representative. (It's a busy job but someone's got to do it :) )
2nd: Street 1-2 @ Sydney Auto Salon - June 2001, 1st: Street 1-2 @ Supernats - September 2001, 1st: Street 1-2 @ Auto Salon Final Battle - November 2001.

-99 Pulsar SSS with dual Odyssey1000's, Lightning Audio Monitor cap, Alpine TDA-7572R & CHA-S624 & PXA-H600 & MRV-F505, Orion XTR5.2 & XTR8MB, Earthquake 200-DHC running two Magma12s in a 2.3cuft/sub 30Hz ported box. DailyDriver: Hiace with a ported JL12 running off a Schneider amp-

If your internal mirror is vibrating, then your subs are playing too-high a frequency! Bring on that sweet 25Hz!!!
NEXT UPGRADE = a THIRD MAGMA12 (ported of course!)
click [email="basshead@caraudioaustralia.com"]THIS[/email] to email me directly!

Any arvo/early evening this week is fine, at my place is best, as have all my cds here. You still got my mobile number, then give us a buzz to arrange it, if not let me know and Ill email it to you
peace
Punky

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"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more ?
my site

Cyber evaluted my car recently..- too bass heavy.. hahha.. this was using the Alpine F#1 disc.. interesting disc to say the least

Marc, personally i would use 8s, however to keep the tonality equal, i would prob use the same brand drivers..

u got a TR 8, Dyn soft dome midrange and Morel tweeter

I suspect it would sound better if it were all Morel or Dyn

as for sounding like an average decent home hifi- good luck ..

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* Clarion 9255
* a/d/s 336.IS
* PPI Flat Piston Pro12
* PhoenixGold ZX450/500

hallo cyberpunky.. welcome back..
why don't WE tune marc car.. then.. i come to Vic, then i send the bill to MArc..
Welcome back buddy..

Y

Yanddy, I thought you stopped tuning cars with that Piano tuning fork ?

Don't worry buddy, there's another car coming up to you early next year.

In the mean time, I just don't know what to do with this one, I'll let Cybder have a go and see if there is more to be had from it.

I see your point Jimbo, but this wasn't a case of grabbing any old speaker and putting them in, they were carefully selected to work well together, and were what the custom crossover was designed around, but it could be something worth looking into.

We'll see what Cyberpunky finds.

------------------
Manager - Car Audio Australia
Advertising / Marketing / HTML
Sound Quality System:

- Vehicle: 2000 Mitsubishi Lancer VRX - 4 Door
- Head Unit: Clarion 9675z w/ 6 Stack Optic Fibre Link
- Front Stage: Total Recoil 8", Dynaudio MD140/2 3.5", Xtant XiS2.6 1"
- Rear Fill: Come on, be serious
- Crossovers: Custom 2 way Passive by Audioart & Technologies
- Subwoofers: Hertz Air Mille 3800 15" Infinite Baffle
- Amplifiers: Butler Tube Driver Blue 2150, Butler Tube Driver Blue 4150
- Power Delivery: Generic USA Made 1F Capacitor, Odyssey 600 Dry Cell Battery
- Lighting Effects: Neostream Neons, Flexiglow Cable

well marcs idea, but very interesting read ....especially for those wanting to get into car sq from home audio.....

enjoy..... ...good idea btw....back to the days when not everything was a "which is better" post

Man this one's just too old. I've had 25 systems since then, and ain't even got that car anymore

Yeah - but Marc - the thread never went on to see if Cyberpunky did actually tune the car - and how much better it ended.

I'm guessing seeing as you always come back to a Freeair 15" Sub - that the 10" sealed sub never eventuated.

So yeah - what was the outcome?

Can't even remember now

It's true that a home set up has advantages over a car, but at the same time you can do things in a car that you just can't do at home.

1. You can't blast down a mountain road at 2am with your system cranking in your lounge room

2. You just can't get the same output levels in a loungeroom.

A truly off the planet car audio system can move and shake you like no home system can. I've got four DD 15s in my cinema and it's nothing compared with even one 15" in a car.

Both the car and home have unique advantages that help make up for their respective weaknesses.

Phil

[ June 10, 2003, 08:27: Message edited by: Incar Phil ]

heheh very nice read... i ddin't even see the date originally... 2001 !! sheez

Only 4 DD

can i be the first to say HOLY CRAP!

i dont wanna be living next door or the foundations of the house

An interesting read.

I would say that the height of the room helps, be it in a car or a house. Even a concert hall.

My 4wd has a high roof, sound seems to grow more in it than smaller cars where your head sits closer to the roof.



Another theory...