nemesis
Jun 18 2003, 02:45 AM
i've noticed it before, but it became pretty obvious last night when tuning the new splits and the eq. why is it that the image shifts when you're sitting in the drivers seat and then go sit in the passengers seat?
now you're probably thinking, well since you set it up to match your position (drivers side) you've moved the tweeters to angle better for that spot. well with how i just set mine up, the tweeters are below the kicks, and point up towards the back of the sun roof (where the interior light usually is), and both of them are in identical positions on each side of the car. so with both seats in the same position, playing the same track, with everything set 'flat' why is it that it sounds completely different from the passengers side? the mid's are mounted pretty much exactly the same in both kicks too, so its not that, and theres no sub to make things weird, its just the splits themselves (had it faded forward completely when tuning it)...i dunno it just got me wondering why, because from the drivers seat it sounds great, but from the passengers feels like its missing out or something, weird...anyone else had/have a similar thing happen?
PartyJase
Jun 17 2003, 04:41 PM
might have something to do with reflections off the interior - ie the dash, steering wheel and anything else that could get in the path.
also don't beemers have dash's that are angled towards the driver?
thats all i can think of if ur setup is symetrical as you say.
only other thing is maybe because you're used to listening predominantly from the LHS using left ear when switching to passengers ur using mainly right ear and that isn't as "developed" or hasn't experienced the same level and types of sound compared to ur left ear. also you never hear exactly the same in each ear. kinda like each eye sees a slightly difference image and difference in colour.
RTTZ
Jun 17 2003, 05:30 PM
This might sound a bit weired but try sitting on the front seats (more like squating on your knees) and facing the back of the car - if you are on the drivers seat then your left ear will be next to the window, and etc.
try the four positions (driver's seat face front, face back and same on the passengers seat) and tune your sytem you should be able to get a pretty good feel and image your system for both front seats.
All the best!
Da'flea.
harris_r31
Jun 17 2003, 05:36 PM
are you using time alignment, if so, then when u r sitting in the passenger seat you may be have destructive interferece, or cancelling issues.
Macca
Jun 17 2003, 10:06 PM
I found this out in my car today, the drivers seat sounds so much better than the passengers
i have set it all up for the drivers seat. and tweeter positions are different.
Another thing to note is in the passengers seat your closer to the left stage than the right. unlike in the drivers seat, mabey your ears are perceeving things differentley
Tha Hombre
Jun 18 2003, 01:34 AM
This is what makes SQ comps incredibly difficult when it is judged from both the driver's and passenger's side.
Rockin
Jun 18 2003, 02:24 AM
They can do that? Ohhh crap.
RTTZ
Jun 18 2003, 02:51 AM
QUOTE
Originally posted by Rockin Rangie:
They can do that? Ohhh crap.
not all classes tho.
Da'flea.
nemesis
Jun 18 2003, 12:19 PM
nope no time alignment here, just a dead flat signal from the eclipse to the eq and then straight out the amp without any filters.
i think you's might be onto something with the perception thing, looking back and thinking when ive sat in other peoples cars demo-ing those ive thought the same sort of thing until i heard it from the drivers seat, i guess its a tuned-ear kind of thing
crossed my mind too about judging systems, if its true that the judge listens from both seats instead of just the passengers then i guess its all good, otherwise i think my system (timid as it is at present) won't be scoring too well
PartyJase
Jun 19 2003, 02:15 AM
its only judged in CAASQ in both seats in the pro-class.
the others are only done from the drivers.
T-Bro
Jun 18 2003, 07:13 PM
alot of the reasons for this image shift have been answered, but i'll elaborate a bit.
psychology: if your used to listening from the drivers seat, then your brain will not like it when you change your position. its not the stereo, its just your mind
reflectivity: the dash area is quite different for each person, mainly, the right hand side features a steering column which causes quite a bit of blockage for the passenger. some guys in the USA actually tuen their steereing wheels 'upside down' for comps, so that the hub is at the top, leaving the hollow or open part of the wheel at the bottom which is far less restrictive.
path length differences: this is the main one, basically, when your driving the right speaker is closest, and when your a passenger the left speaker is closest. this means each seat presents an oppostively biased centre image (the driver will see a right-biased image, the passenger a left-biased image). time alignment can only correct this for one seating location, so the other one will sound like crap. pushing the speakers far foward to reduce PLD's helps, but still the bias problem remains. and centre speakers, contrary to popular belief, still sound better from the seat their tuned, though they are actually still very good for the passenger.
im one of the more obsessive people when it comes to imaging, and ive never been able to get it perfect for both seats - but i can get it almost perfect for the driver, and very good for the passenger. i really dont think its possible to get it perfect for both people, cars are just too damn irregular for that. and remember, home audio/cinema suffers from the same thing, just not as acutely.
hope the above reinforces that your are NOT insane, haha
nemesis
Jun 19 2003, 03:59 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by T-Bro:
hope the above reinforces that your are NOT insane, haha
well no, but thats a whole other matter
thanks for the replies, i know where you're coming from also, makes good sense really i was just wondering if it was just me being pedantic or not
centre speaker idea is becomming a better and better idea, as i have the air vent on the dash which could fit a 6.5" driver pretty easily if i wanted...something ill look at later i think, it was to be home to the tv but i talked myself out of that idea due to attracting too much attention being up there when cruising around, so yeh anyway.
the speakers are already as far forward as humanly possible, and seems to re-create certain tracks really really well now which is great, ah well ill just have to remember not to sit in the passenger seat again
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