GTS_t
Aug 10 2003, 03:44 PM
I'm currently installing the system in my sig. into my Skyline. Unfortunately progress has come to a halt because I no longer want to use the Kef drivers from my previous car in my new system.
I need to choose a new F.S. and some rearfill.
I would like to hear from people who have used Scanspeak drivers or other component drivers who could recommend particular models that are suitable for car use and also mention any issues such as 2way vs 3way, heat/moisture resistance, impedance, off axis response etc that might affect these drivers.
Even though money is a bit of a problem I hope to eventually achieve the best result possible.
I've got plenty of active channels but if I go 3ways I might buy mid-bass and tweets now and add mids later.
Whilst I don't think rearfill is essential I do intend to use it in the finished system so I need to choose them even if I don't buy them now because the custom rear shelf needs to be completed next.
Any recommendations or advice would be appreciated.
Thanks.
[ August 17, 2003, 10:45: Message edited by: GTS_t ]
-DJ-
Aug 10 2003, 08:36 PM
yeah scanspeak make some great drivers. i work in a hi-fi store and theres not a single audio store in the world (i think) that doesnt have a speaker of some description with a vifa or scan driver (they're the same company... along with peerless).
those rediculously overpriced f#1 status alpine splits use scanspeak drivers!
for tweets, have a good look at the vifa "XT-25TG-30-04". its a 4R ohm job. sounds incredible! also have a look at the scanspeak "R2904-700000" also 4 ohm.
do a search for "Seas" too. they're also a leader in drivers. (ever heard of "Rainbow" components?? - they're top shelf US$7k splits are a seas woofer, mid and tweet.
for your mids, have a peek at the scan "18W8531G00" and vifa "P17WJ-99-08" 60-inch'ers.
.... or you could land yourself a set of dyn's and be done with it
just some ideas. hope this helps
--d
advance
Aug 10 2003, 08:50 PM
i've got some links for specs for the drivers DJhatton mentioned. Scan-Speak, Vifa and Peerless are all available at Advance AE
Vifa XT25TG-30-04 Scan-Speak R2904-700000 Scan-Speak 18W8531G00I would definatly recommend the Scan-Speak gear cause it sounds excellent
[ August 10, 2003, 18:53: Message edited by: advance ]
GTS_t
Aug 11 2003, 01:43 PM
Thanks guys. advance, good to see prices. No doubt the R2904-700000 is Scanspeak's flagship tweeter but at $1258 pr they are a bit(lot)out of my budget. The Vifa tweets looks like a bargain at <$200pr. Considering the price difference how much better are the Scanspeaks? I was thinking about $800-$1000 for mids and tweets. One problem I see I might have with the Scanspeak drivers above is their 6ohm tweets and 8ohm woofer might not get much power from my P.G.ZX475Ti as it works best with a low imp. load. How would 2 5" mid-woofers go in each door compared to a single 6.5". I've been considering this option because 2 5"s would fit behind the factory grilles which originally covered oval speakers.
GTS_t
Aug 17 2003, 01:13 PM
How do the Scanspeak drivers compare to Dynaudio.
I'm looking at using Dyn.MW160 or MW160GT (depending on what will fit) 4ohm mids because Scanspeak mids all seem to be 8ohm.
I've heard great things about the Esotars but can't afford them so I'm thinking of maybe using Scanspeak 2905-970000 6ohm tweets. Has anyone used these or know how they compare to Dyn. tweets?
How do you think the MW160/MW160GTs and Scan. tweets would blend as a 2way of would they be better with Dyn.MD140/2s as a 3way.
-DJ-
Aug 17 2003, 04:00 PM
Me, personally, i'd just go for a set of dyn 2-ways at the front. scan make some great drivers, yes, but i'd still take the dyns anyday.
Have you listened to a set of System220s or 240s? Even without the esotar, they're a great speaker set.
you can make any tweeter and woofer go together to some extent, but its not a simple matter of a mix and match affair. you'll need to re-design the xovers (most likely). plus the natural speaker roll-off properties may not match-up. you could get a hole of "no go" somewhere near the xover point.
essentially this is bad - the human ear is very sensetive to anomalities in the 1-5khz area.
i wouldn't go 2x 5's in the front either. finding urself drivers of the right impedance to begin with is a lot tidier and will land you with a better result than a hap-hazzardly chosen assortment of drivers
if you can match a set of mids and tweets properly, and set-up xovers to suit, you could wind-out with great sound.
chances are it will just become messy. you might be best-off to audition some other splits (just like the dyn 220s or 240s).
just a thought...
d
GTS_t
Aug 18 2003, 07:13 PM
Dj I'm just putting a few ideas out there to get some feedback so thanks for the reply.
Yes I've heard the system 240s and they're very good but the tweeter is not as natural as that in some other high end systems I've heard. I'm sure the Esotars are as good as it gets but there must be others of other brands that are similar and might fit my budget better.
Cross-overs aren't really a problem as I'll most likely run my system fully active.
The idea of using two fives came from looking at what fits best in the car more than from trying to lower impedence. Also I've been told smaller mids in a 2way system usually sound better in the upper midrange.
In the end it depends on installation and tuning as much as the speakers I get.
-DJ-
Aug 18 2003, 09:11 PM
yeah no problems mate
you're right in that last statement. your installation and set-up/tuning is what will have the biggest impact on your system. 2x mids won't necessarily give you better sound... it may be great, may ruin it all. again - set-up.
go visit your local "high-end" hi-fi store. see if you can find a set of speakers that have a vifa or scanspeak like the aboves.
this will give you an idea of how they might sound.
(by the way - visit a Orpheus Loudspeaker dealer and ask for a set of Signature 28's to listen to - they have that vifa tweet. finding that upper scanspeak will be much much harder - manufacturers of speakers generally dont use flagship drivers in their designs below $20k and you'll be searching for a while to find a store with them!) if you're in sydney, visit Len Wallis in lane cove... or if you feel like a road-trip to canberra, i'll demo them for ya!
at any rate, just trust your ears. you've got to listen to it mate!
you sound like you're on the right track.
let us know how you go!
d
Maz
Aug 18 2003, 10:56 PM
I have the Vifa XT25's in my VN, i have 240wrms on tap to them, they go very loud considering they are in the kick panels. Great accuracy considering how loud i have it
They also play down very low too, so they can be matched with bigger 8inch drivers like what i am doing.
Dingaling
Aug 19 2003, 07:21 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by DjHatton:
do a search for "Seas" too. they're also a leader in drivers. (ever heard of "Rainbow" components?? - they're top shelf US$7k splits are a seas woofer, mid and tweet.
for your information, Rainbow reference drivers are not related to seas drivers. Although both units share a copper colored phase plug, thats about where the similarity ends. Different basket, motor, cone material, etc. etc...
Don't assume because they look similar they are the same.
Dingaling
Aug 19 2003, 07:24 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by GTS_t:
Thanks guys. advance, good to see prices. No doubt the R2904-700000 is Scanspeak's flagship tweeter but at $1258 pr they are a bit(lot)out of my budget. The Vifa tweets looks like a bargain at <$200pr. Considering the price difference how much better are the Scanspeaks? I was thinking about $800-$1000 for mids and tweets. One problem I see I might have with the Scanspeak drivers above is their 6ohm tweets and 8ohm woofer might not get much power from my P.G.ZX475Ti as it works best with a low imp. load. How would 2 5" mid-woofers go in each door compared to a single 6.5". I've been considering this option because 2 5"s would fit behind the factory grilles which originally covered oval speakers.
the 7000's are damn nice... but i feel for the car, it's over kill... no need to spend that much.
The vifa xt's are a much better bargain for the $... Look into Max Fidelity's 30mm compact softdome... cheap but very good. Don't worry bout the 6 or 8ohm unless u are using some stock passives from another 4ohm set. Either make ur own passives or go active.
Dual 5.25's should give you a bit more displaced air and increase power handling.
Dingaling
Aug 19 2003, 07:30 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by GTS_t:
How do the Scanspeak drivers compare to Dynaudio.
I'm looking at using Dyn.MW160 or MW160GT (depending on what will fit) 4ohm mids because Scanspeak mids all seem to be 8ohm.
I've heard great things about the Esotars but can't afford them so I'm thinking of maybe using Scanspeak 2905-970000 6ohm tweets. Has anyone used these or know how they compare to Dyn. tweets?
How do you think the MW160/MW160GTs and Scan. tweets would blend as a 2way of would they be better with Dyn.MD140/2s as a 3way.
dyn's mobile sets aren't bad, a bit boring and overpriced in my opinion. Midbass is average...the md100 tweeter lacks topend extension and detail. Scan mids will beat dyn's in midbass output in general, midrange, it will depend on which model scans. Esotars are damn fine tweeters, but cost a damn lot. Morel supremo's in my opinion are on par with the esotars, for much less money. Here are some tweets I've been playing with Pics
DD Phil
Aug 20 2003, 12:31 AM
I'm using the big Scanspeak tweeters along with two DD 6.5s for front L & R in my 325i.
The DD 6.5s sound as good as the Scanspeak Revalators, but take over double the power.
Phil
Dingaling
Aug 20 2003, 06:14 AM
QUOTE
Originally posted by Incar Phil:
I'm using the big Scanspeak tweeters along with two DD 6.5s for front L & R in my 325i.
The DD 6.5s sound as good as the Scanspeak Revalators, but take over double the power.
Phil
as good as the revs? not in my book. I had the dd6.5's as well... its midbass was very weak... not much real output below 80hz. Midrange was very peaky, had very bad cone breakup after 3khz.
They do get pretty loud, but they are a bit inefficient. The rev's have a much smoother presentation. in my opinion, the rev's are in a different league than the dd6.5's
Cyberpunky
Aug 20 2003, 07:42 AM
As you can see from above, every one has an opinion but what matters is what you think. Ask about any speaker and some will praise, others will can it, but neither is right or wrong. Listen and then buy what you like, if you cant listen then buy a lotto ticket as you have as much chance as getting that right, as finding someone on the net who has your ears (about 47 million to 1)
Anyway the Alpines are not just scan speak drivers but custom made to Alpines specs. wether they are overpirced or not is up to the person who paid for them, not others, to judge. My car uses the "cheap" Dyn tweeter and is so far undefeated in pro class SQ, so make of that what you will.
peace
Cyberpunky
GTS_t
Aug 21 2003, 02:00 AM
Maz Is that 240W just for the tweets or is that for the splits?
Phil If I go active as I intend I'll only have 75w a ch. Is that enough for the D.D.s?
Dingaling Could you recommend any specific model numbers?
cyberpunky Yeah sure I need to listen but the town I live in is a SQ wasteland. The only brands I can audition are Sony, VDO, Pioneer, RF, and JBL. Nobody even has Alpine anymore. Even on my last trip to Brisbane I couldn't find anyone with Dynes set up to audition. I doubt I'll be able to find anyone with Scanspeaks. I'd like to see some SQ comps happening as they are the best place to hear what works.
I value the replies to this thread as they help me target specific products to organise auditions because it's impossible for me to listen to every speaker on the market.
If anyone in Nth'n N.S.W. or SE Qld has a system with speakers that they think I might like PM me so I can come have a listen.
Thanks.
Dingaling
Aug 21 2003, 02:22 AM
QUOTE
Originally posted by GTS_t:
[QB]Maz Is that 240W just for the tweets or is that for the splits?
Phil If I go active as I intend I'll only have 75w a ch. Is that enough for the D.D.s?
Dingaling Could you recommend any specific model numbers?
QB]
75 watts on a dd is enough to get it decently loud, but its needs more in my opinion, its sensitivity is around 82-83db in most of the lower midrange. I have a freq response plot if u would like to see.
specific model #'s for scan? i suggest going with the 4ohm revalators. the 5.5" is 15w4531g00, the 7" is 18w4531g00. I'm currently running the 18w4531's in one of my setups. great smooth midrange and good bass.
DD Phil
Aug 20 2003, 10:27 PM
I really wouldn't worry too much about tweeters, the midrange is the key driver.
10Wrms is a plenty of power for critical listening, any more is just for fun.
The more power, the more fun............
Phil
-DJ-
Aug 21 2003, 02:00 AM
mm yeah cyberpunky
everyone has a different ear. as you may have guessed, i'm a dyn man through and through, but go out and have a listen to all that there is.
its your system, your wallet and your ears!
d
GTS_t
Aug 22 2003, 04:49 PM
I received a reply to the Email I sent Wescomponents and they don't import the Scanspeak 4ohm stuff. Pity. Does anyone else sell Scanspeak in Aus. I'm sure I saw some car tweeters
D2904-60000s somewhere recently.
Dingaling
Aug 22 2003, 06:53 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by GTS_t:
I received a reply to the Email I sent Wescomponents and they don't import the Scanspeak 4ohm stuff. Pity. Does anyone else sell Scanspeak in Aus. I'm sure I saw some car tweeters
D2904-60000s somewhere recently.
why not try ordering from http://solen.ca ? ask for a quote on shippin?
-DJ-
Aug 23 2003, 03:04 AM
mmmm solen. they make nice casps and resitomers too@
wes is the offivial impotrer of the danish audio technologue speaker companiees (viga, csan and perless).
no idea whwere to check if they camt do the "DAT" 4R driverss.... considerting they ate the umporters into auz!
d
-DJ-
Aug 23 2003, 03:10 AM
oops duoble posy
[ August 23, 2003, 01:10: Message edited by: DjHatton ]
DD Phil
Aug 24 2003, 12:23 AM
I can get Scanspeak ex USA.
Phil
GTS_t
Aug 24 2003, 12:35 AM
QUOTE
Originally posted by DjHatton:
mmmm solen. they make nice casps and resitomers too@
wes is the offivial impotrer of the danish audio technologue speaker companiees (viga, csan and perless).
no idea whwere to check if they camt do the "DAT" 4R driverss.... considerting they ate the umporters into auz!
d
Dude, you shouldn't drink and type. LOL
I bought some Dynaudio System 240GTs this morning.
This doesn't mean I won't play around trying different things but at least I'll have something that works well to listen to to fall back on.
-DJ-
Aug 24 2003, 03:38 AM
dude. i had a large night... v large. but yeah, posting when drunk... usually a bad idea.
but congrats on the dyns. good choice imo bro!
detailed, accurate, musical and reliable.... (the perfect split??)
have a play too! you might just wind out with your own personalised car speaker! heh.
d
NOLAN ILWAN
Aug 25 2003, 01:20 AM
Hello,
I am car audiophile hobbyist too .Home driver like scanspeak is very good driver,but i think still small tweeter can get "true" sound in the car.because the big tweeter is difficult on placement and have acoustic problem because too close to car dashboard.I already try many big tweeter in the car and all the good sound is back at your CORRECT INSTALLATION (like found correct placement,rigid spk panel,etc),MATCHING SYSTEM,CORRECT CUSTOM PASSIVE CROSSOVER and TUNING.If i see your other equipment,i think that impossible get audiophile sound.Try to change the amp and head unit(HU).My favorite HU is Nakamichi cd700,TP1200+CDC100 for high end and DENON DCT-Z1.For amp:PHOENIXGOLD ZPA0.3,SOUNDSTREAM REF CLASS A 6.0 AND AUDISON VRX OR HR SERIES.CUSTOM DRIVER FROM DYNAUDIO 17WLQ,VIFA M18WN,FOCAL UTOPIA 6W1,ETON ADVENTURE AND FLUX FOR SPEAKER.AND TWEETER FROM SCAN SPEAK 6000,ETON DISCOVERY AND MICROPRECISION,FOCAL TN52,FLUX (THIS IS MY FRIEND CUSTOM SPEAKER FROM GERMANY).
I VERY NOT RECCOMENDED FOR PUT HOME DRIVER INTO CAR AUDIO SYSTEM LIKE SCANSPEAK 8545WN,BECAUSE THE OVERALL RESPONSE IS VERY BAD...,home and car driver have different spec and application.home audio driver design for on axis apllication IN THE BOX and car audio driver for off axis and free air spec.
I use revelator in car 1 year ago but because the high temperature on car when i am parking,the revelator "textile dome" is broken.If your car is parking under the sun please don't use home driver they don't have UV coating for protect from the sun.My LMS detect the different spec in FS and impendance after 1 year i use on the car.This is normal when i know scan don't have UV coating because this tweeter for home audio application.try 6000 only special design for car audio from scan speak.
But you must found or DIY correct passive crossover for get the best overall sound when use high end driver.Don't use EQ because that will make sound error.You must looking great response use Rta with correct passive x-over and correct speaker placement.
I hope you get best audiophile on the car.
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