have a look at the home audio scenario. You wouldnt dare hook an equaliser up to a pair of nautilus's or anything like that. youd probably void the warranty if you did.

homes are a bit like car interiors when it comes to a hostile environment for faithful audio reproduction. carpets, leather couches, curtains, pictures etc etc. Yet you hardly hear about eq's in home systems.

I agree with cyber on this. a eq is really a band aid. a good system wont need one and i have heard systems with no eq what so ever score 32-37 on rta out of 40 reliably time after time.

audible: the home environment is alot more "stereo friendly"
it's also ALOT more predictable.
i.e. particular layouts have simliar problems,

i don't think my car needs an EQ, JohnA and Cyber didn't seem to think it'd benefit much from one either.
i currently have -1db cut @10Khz or so.just to take the edge off the tweeters,
(inbuilt HU EQ)

I've had the sick pleasure to see a couple of reps at the Big Boys Toys expo get *VERY* worried after firing up a pair of these....... and getting a lot hissing and popping.

but very

Most expensive things I've seen fried in person!!

i have to disagree. the world of home audio is changing. the days where you may have had a "10band graphic equaliser" in your system are well and truly over. its products such as these (and others) that have caused so much criticism of eq's since!

equalizers today are a different kettle of fish. no longer are they dodgy little pots and flashing spectrum analysers, they're 24/96 from the in to the out in many cases and getting better.

pick-up a Stereophile magazine of late and you'll see that the humble eq isnt so shunned anymore. (sam telling of stereophile commented highly upon a system based on wilson audio watt/puppies, levinson monobloc amps, a boulder cd source and a Tact digital room correction preamplifier (i think thats what they called it))

its also ironic me saying this, because i'm such a purist, but equalisation is not what it used to be. its now a real option...

but again, its been said before. equalisation can make a good system great, but not a bad system good.

/end rant



d

[quote]Originally posted by DjHatton:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by audible:
[QB]but again, its been said before. equalisation can make a good system great, but not a bad system good.

d[/quote]Well Said!!!

Let's not forget that those of use who have different gain controls in our systems like sub and mains, have a simple EQ here.

I was reading about Peter Gabriel releasing his catalogue again and often refering to changing his EQ and reverb for the new stuff in studio. Most music that we listen to has been EQ'd to the max even before we get it into our cd players. If we get the sound we like without any further EQ, then that's just fine. Any EQ, digital or otherwise, if in the chain, will add or change things. If we believe otherwise, we are mistaken.

Even if we don't have an EQ in our systems, don"t forget that the car's environment will add it's own slant on things. If we happen to like that without making changes, again, that's just fine.

Let's not also forget that a straight EQ line is often disgusting to listen to. Some of the nicest systems I have heard in both car and home, have had a far from flat line but have been the most enjoyable and involving to listen to.

It annoys me in a way that when I was judging and/or had my car judged, part of the scoring was to see how flat the line was. How pointless really as it often meant making the system sound worse to get the highest score. Duh!

To answer your question more directly, maybe his car and equipment's natural EQ qualities mean that he doesn't need to add additional measures.

Used correctly, after the basics are mastered, EQ is our friend.

Mr_bob.

yes, your right. But a house isnt always the best environment either. few people properly orientate their lounge rooms to suit the sound of their stereos. You still have the purists who build dedicated stereo rooms in the home thats devoid of anything that can affect the "sonic purity" of their equipment. they dont do this kind of extreme for nothing.

Djhatton.

Yes, the home audio world is changing. Its called home theatre. What these new breeds of eq are trying to do is bend the sound from your stereo to counter the effects of the room its in. imho, its just another marketing angle. Owners of the real top shelf home audio products wont spend thousands of their gear and slap it into any old room in the house. They will build/modify the room around the system and virtually eliminate all colourations from curtains, furniture etc etc.
even purposely design such rooms at construction time.

These eq's still will not fix all of the problems a bad room wil cause. Its still a band aid on a small part of the wound.

The problem with eq's is that they are often applied to try and fix other existing problems.
people put a system in their cars and look at the rta and see a bad curve. They then throw in the eq and bludgeon the curve into shape yet leave the problems causing the bad curve alone.
Destructive resonance, standing waves, crossover problems, it goes on and on.

In my car I have a destructive resonance at 16-17 kay and above. putting extra power to the tweets, or extra tweets of any amount of eq is not going to fix it.

[ September 26, 2003, 14:33: Message edited by: audible ]

My company just finished (opening tonight!) a $150000 sound system in possibly the most difficult room to tune it to in the world.

1 three band parametric eq to take out resonant freq's.

Best sound in Melbourne of its type.

audible:

home theatre/multichannel audio is, imo, a ballgame not even close to real audio, so we'll leave that one well alone.

the entire purpose of an eq is to compensate for weaknesses in a system. it is easier to tune your system to your ears via a quality eq than it is to change everything around it. tell me how many non-studio setups you know of that have a perfect source, amplification, speakers and surroundings (room/car cabin)? there are some things that technology can overcome that would otherwise be unreasonable, expensive and/or not feasible. this is where i am a complete supporter of a good eq.

i know many many people with mega-buck 2channel systems (i work in well renowned high-end hifi store) who dont have super-duper, high fidelity, treated, designated listening rooms. the most amazing system i've heard is in a shed and he has over 100grand of equipment!

i agree with you that an eq is a band-aid, but it IS a fix to many problems. of course its not going to make a dodgy install sound wonderful. nor is it going to help you if your car cabin makes funny noises at its resonant frequency... but for smaller issues (peaks and dips etc and whatnot) it can be an invalueable tool! again, ref: my previous post. can improve a good system, but won't fix fundamental problems!

sorry for long post.

d

Exactly!

Well yeah the only reason ive got a 32 band in my car is because the speaker im usin for a mid is actually a subwoofer, it has made a world of difference and really cleaned the sound up, as for the missuse well i did find it changed my sound stage dramatically, which is something i really wasnt expecting.

Im not trying to be h@ardc0r3 L337 in SQ but i just want nice sounds with a different but still usable setup.

Cheers
Marc

All apologies to wake a sleeping dog (not sure if this practice is frowned upon on these forums).

Everyone seems to be missing the entire point of system tuning. An EQ isnt the most important thing you need (it does help though). You're given the best EQs the day you're born and you get 2 of them.

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned a $150k setup. I was lucky enough to spend almost an hour listening to a similar one. Krell monoblocks, Martin Logan front end, and an equally prestigious cd player/preamp combo.

That experience was the best reference anyone could hope for. When a system is that good, it acts purely as a messenger to tell you EXACTLY what info is on a disc - for good or bad.

It's tuned my ears an absolute treat - I now can easily pick discrepancies in ordinary `affordable` setups.

I thought an eq is to change the sound to the way YOU want it.

When it is set flat, it is the way the cd or whatever is meant to be heard.

Isn't time alignment more useful than a fancy eq?

it's never a problem. in fact i find it interesting to go over some controversial topics and find out peoples' opinions.

i must say, i find an EQ a handy thing to have. but in particular, a digital one with multiple memoery settings. the thing about cars of course, isthat they're 'mobile', and once you start the engine and add in roadnoise, your ears lose much of the SQ that was once there when the car was staionary with engine off.

so it's great to be able to simply select the EQ presetting to suit the moment: pure SQ for listening pleasure, then bump up the low end for daily driving.

different people will have different ideas of what sounds good, and an EQ can change a system to suit one's tastes.

also, putting things into perspective, how much time does your system spend in a competition? in reality, i think most people use their cars for driving, so the stereo should be tuned for that. so whilst it's nice to have it sounding like a reference system, that doesn't really matter if it still sounds great and provides plenty of engaging music.

people also seem to be missing the point NO speaker has a flat responce, Hence the point of an EQ, to boost where the speakers, are failing, if you look at a responce curve of any speaker, youll notice itll bounce around every where, usualy only a few db, but some speaker especially near the edges of there limits will drop substantualy, hence and EQ, no amount of speaker positioning will ever fix that

Actually some do My Alpine DDDM07S limited have an almost ruler flat response from 100Hz to 20K. They vary less than a dB or so right across the range. Anyway ask any1 who has heard my car what needs to be adjusted for better sound cause I cant find anything, but maybe someone else has heard something I missed

I have a $2500 EQ doing nothing but cant see the point EQing because it must be done, as if it aint broken...
peace
Cyberpunky

I had the pleasure of hearing his BMW in the States a few years back. Very expensive home B&W home speakers. Mid and tweet in motorized pop up on axis pods in the corners of the dash and 13" subs in the kick panels (fabricated with the guards off). Each speaker running off hand made / tuned tube amp. Install lookes like crap, car sounded fantastic, but not as good as Eric Stevens (Image Dynamics founder and owner) Impala SS, at the time

Hehe
I did, and have the blankets hanging tp prove it