Well we can't leave this thread alone without adding... tube amps as mentioned by ROTTZ (check out offerings from US Amps and Butler), DLS Ultimates, Phoenix Gold Ti's, uDimension.

Paul

Milbert is the best amp I ever try. I have tested it with several amps and it beat every thing I have try by a big margine. (including soundstream TR 500/4, butler tube driver blue, Audison LRX2.150 and U.S Amp TU600) but who is willing to pay 5K and a few month wait for a 35x2 RMS amp

I agree with golf bht about tube amps. There is something about the way they sound that makes them sound better than any solid state amp i have ever heard.

I havent had a chance to hear the milbert(which is a pure tube amp with not solid state stages) but i have heard the US Amps, and to date, there is no amplifier that has impressed me more. The only drawback i can think of is that tube amps 'colour' the sound which may not be what you want if ruthless accuracy is what you want(buy a Brax amplifier if thats what you're after). But tube amps colour the sound in such a beautiful way i dont think i'll ever go back to solid state again. Is the difference apparent? When i first swapped the amp, during critical listening, the difference(especially in vocals) was so apparent it was impossible to ignore(compared to my 1507 which is already a very good amp IMO). It made my 1507 actually sound harsh and unpolished, i never expected amps to make such a big difference. But over time, during driving, there still is a difference of course, but its not as apparent since you're really not paying attention(but its still there!)

The best way to decide what amp is to listen. Personally, i wouldnt ignore the advice here about car tube hybrid amps. I am not exaggerating when i say i would rather have my US Amps over an Audison VRx any day of the week.

BTW i have downgraded in my power use. I used to run 200W x 2 to my fronts, now am running 75W x 4(active) and i have found my current system to be the best sounding by far to date

[ December 20, 2003, 15:10: Message edited by: honour77 ]

now with these "tube" amps that u heard, were they butler style where the valves are on the imput side where they can actuly degrade the sound or were they on the output side where they should be???

casue if there like the butler one's, then you might as well buy a Valve Pre amp or Valve line driver like my self and save a few grand.

if you after a good amp, find one that put's out the power you need, has the xover confrig that u want and looks damn nice. then check the construction and make sure it has decent componets and your on a winner.

forget brand names, just go for good quality.

remember SQ is 10% components and 90% installation!!

I have already mentioned that the amps i have listened to were hybrids, i.e. tube preamp with solid state gain stages. At no point did i suggest that the amps i recommended are pure tube amps, with exception to the Milbert(which i have never auditioned and hence cannot comment on). Please suggest a commercial stand alone tube preamp which runs off a 12v power line since you have suggested its use. This is not a challenge, i am genuinely curious. Thanks

BTW my amp did not cost thousands, and it didnt even cost half as much as a VRx. Its about buying smart Just because something has tubes doesnt mean it has to be expensive

[ December 20, 2003, 19:38: Message edited by: honour77 ]

Since people seem to rave about the LRx 2.150, I"d imagine the VRx 2.150 would sound quite good too.. its only about AU$1000 too

Me personally, i've heard differences in amps, sub amps, etc..... However, recently went from a US amps 2000 to an Audison Vrx1.500, and noticed no difference at all IMO, maybe a little, but nothing i've actually heard yet!!!
However, for front stage i 100% recommend getting the best amp you can afford, because, even if it doesn't sound different, an audison will most likely outlast jaycar, IMO
Aaron

Tube amps are sweet, no doubt about that.
They just do not cope well in the sub frequency region.

Phil K

Thanks a lot for all the replies guys.
I appreciate it.

I have lots of ideas now about the front amps.

What do you guys think about changing my sub amplifier? Would that make an ounce of difference going from an Alpine Digital Class D amp to something that will cost me a few grand?

The major reason why tube amps sound like tube amps is because they have a very low damping factor. (Except for those select few tube amps that sound like transistor amps )

You can get the same effect with transistor amps by reducing the damping factor (ie you can increase the output impedance by adding resistance in series with the driver)

I'd like to add that I've heard some lovely amps that employ tubes. I've also heard some pretty nasty "hard" sounding tube amps as well.

One of the great valve amp designers, Tim De Paravicini has said that it's not so much that they are tubes but how they are used that influences their sound.

So far, I still really like my Phoenix Gold ZX-475Ti. I heard a very nice older Xtant the other day as well.

i swapped from a VRx2.150 to a JL300/4,
whilst i now have double the power, there are significant changes.
different spectrual balance.
also noticed that the JL is brighter, and gets even brighter as the volume increases, but it also has a touch more clarity in the top end.

ultimately i don't know which i prefer the sound of, but the JL definately has more power