People Remember we are comparing Lower End Subwoofers. He asked Which Would be Better not What Would be Better !

Damon, I have to Agree, Pioneer Subs in the cheap end Do sound Great as long as you are not a Bass Head or an Audiophile.

Out of the Two Options the Pioneer 10 inch is the Better Buy. You may get More Cone Space with the 12 inch SONY but they dont reproduce the Quality as good as a 10 inch Sealed Pioneer.
Most People I have Cruised with have Used the Pioneer 10 inch's in Sealed enclosures and they have performed very well when compared to other lower End Subs like Kenwood and JVC.
I used a Pioneer 10 inch Diamond Plate Sub in a BandPass enclosure and loved it.

macca: I was simply pointing out that a $170.00 PG Octane R would provide a much much better foundation than a sony sub

I personally think the 10" will be better for you in this case. Numb mentioned balance*, and since you plan to run the splits off the HU then 10" is the way to go. If balance isn't a factor, and you'd like a bit more lower & louder bass then go the 12".

There is nothing wrong with those Sony subs or Pioneer subs what so ever. I have heard those Pioneer subs sounding bad, but the reason behind it was not because its a **** sub, but coz it was sitting in one of those prefab boxes which will not be tuned to your car or music taste. Get / make a good tuned box, and it will sound fantastic..guarnteed.

Most of the replys here are like comparing their modified Subaru WRX to someone else's stock Hyundai Accent. Not everyone here can afford $1k sub woofers, $2k headunits & amplifiers etc. Sure a $1k system will not sound as good as one that is $5k, but its a system at least. We're not hear to brag about how awesome Brahim subs are compared to $200 Sony / Pioneer subs.

Seriously, who really pumps 1500WRMS+ daily into their subs (no offence bro). 1. You'd be so deaf 2. Would never have a front stage that would come close to keeping up / *BALANCING the sound out at that level.

Suprathai, if you had a system made of $250 sub box package, $300hu, $200 splits, $300 2 or 4ch amp IT WILL SOUND WAY BETTER than your factory system and you WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED. IT WILL MEET YOUR NEEDS, but would it meet others who say Sony and Pioneer are **** ...probably not (if it did they wouldn't say anyway and probably bag it still) but who gives a rats about them.

I can appreciate people who are giving the car audio game a go, whether or not they have a big bank account to spend on equipment. I myself have gone through 'cheap systems', and when done right they can be fantastic. The last one I had was a Panasonic HU (wasn't a cheap model though, but I had gone through 5 of them at least ranging from $300 up to $500 [cost prices though]), Phillips 4" splits and 6" Panasonic rear fill. Did it sound good? Sure bloody did, and if that was the only system I could possibly do atm I would do it again.

[ January 04, 2004, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: mattyeos ]

I appreciate everyone for there input on this Topic. I've heard really expensive systems before, but really don't think my requirements are that high at the moment. A 1K system will sound much better then the current stock system no matter what.

I don't think the prefab enclosures are going to be that good unless of course they came from the manufacturer really, if not i don't think stores like strathfield would really care about how well the enclosure suits the subs.

Thanks all as i've been enlightned on this whole topic a bit more.

Cheers

P.S. Oh yeah i drive a 03 rolla

[ January 04, 2004, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Suprathai ]

I recon you should do this in stages. First buy a HU, Splits and an AMP. Then add the sub in the future, when the finances allow. $500 for the HU, $300 for the splits and $200 for the amp (second hand). I recomend getting your amp second hand and also look out for other componants second hand.

Looking at your earlier post, you said you had a $1000 budget, and you were self installing. For $1000 you can build a REALLY nice sounding system that can show up many $5000 set-ups.

First, forget your $150 worth of sound-deadening, this money would be better spent on better speakers, you can add this at a later stage if you like.

I'd go:

CD $200 (Second hand one mentioned)
Fronts $330
Sub $170
Amp $300

You should be able to get some very good speakers within this budget; I'd go for Diamond Audio M3, Boston FS or Hertz.

For sub, look at PG and Dragster, or better still a used $350 sub, as an example we have a used Crossfire P1 selling for $120, I'm sure many other stores have similar bargains.

Amp: Axis or Avantguarde have 4x75W amps in this budget, the Axis even looks pretty flash. They aren't Bostons or Audisons but they do the job, we use heaps in cheaper systems, as they have proved reliable.

Definitely run a 4 channel amp, the cost difference from a 2 to 4 channel isn't much and you're already paying for power and RCA cables etc. The SQ improvement gained by high-passing and amping them is worth the money.

Phil

Not a big fan of the $100 sub, usually leads to disappointment.

As above the Octane R is awesome value and will do the job nicely, whether 10" or 12" is of little concern, honestly. If you have space for the 12" and it'd bigger box, go that way IMO.

Will have more output and efficiency, balance by level controls on the amp or HU if you have that option.

Far and away the biggest thing with SQ bass is the enclosure and set-up. Build the box twice as strong and rigid as you think is necessary.
25mm mdf and brace it and you won't go wrong.

For system design, yes, as above others things should take priority but if you want to get a bit of bump going, by all means start with a sub and go from there.

The $170 sub option will give you something to build on and pick up a decent amp cheap in the second hand section here.

Hope that helps.

Well NUMB, that was quite an interesting and well thought out response. It was also very endearing to hear that you like to, apparently, drive around with your amplifiers producing a constant 1500WRMS or more at any given time. I find this quite hard to believe but anyway...

Looking at you product list on the bottom of your post, and reading your posts themselves, shows that you have a very healthy respect for 'prestigious brands'. Which, I suppose, is all well and good for you.

There are, however, other people in the universe who don't place of find such high value ins spending that much money on car audio. Nor does everyone, I might add, engage in listening to sub bass as the type of output level you claim to.

For these people the mainstay brands like Pioneer, Sony, Clarion, Kenwood, Panasonic et-al represent the value and performance they demand. The funny thing is that sales history has proven yearin and year out that these brands outsell prestigious brands by some margin. In fact, if you could obtain sales reports for car audio sales worldwide for the past, gee let me think, 10 years - you'd find that Pioneer and Sony have been the two largest car audio manufacturers in this time. If their gear sounded so bad, worked like rubbish, or was bad value then their marketing companies all deserve big fat raises...

Then again, the whole world could be gravely mistaken and brand snobs may be correct after all.

If so that's a pity. I find it sad that people truly believe that they need to spend extraordinary amounts of cash to get good results when I've made a reasonable career trying to help them do otherwise if they so want.

[ January 05, 2004, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Damon ]

I agree with Damon's above post, purely because entry level and $100 subs are the bread and butter of the industry. We also have to start somewhere.

Suprathai- see if you can check out the Kicker EX as well, it should be around your budget if you bargain hard enough.

I'm a uni student as well, and I have a lot of expensive equipment going into my car (see sig.) It's because I work two jobs; one income for the car and another for life as well as uni fulltime. I've also only had rear fill for the last 12 months. Why? Because I skimp and save to afford what I will be able to enjoy. I'm going into my third year and have yet to fail anything. It's alright at the moment, I'm waiting on splits and a sub to be shipped from Germany so I'm saving money in the meantime

When I'm done my system would have cost the normal person over $7,000 in equipment alone. I'm lucky to pay half- be smart, buy used and bargain hard for new.

Just some friendly advice from someone in the same boat.

Well it all comes down purely to interest really on this topic. I'm not a really big fanatic into car audio systems. I'm more the type that likes to modify the engine and looking for performance and handling in a car. But if its got to do with cars then generally i will be interested. I've thought of doing it in stages and spending quite a bit as well, but i can't justify myself into spending that much money really.

The opportunity came for me when my brother said he was changing his head unit, so i'm planning to grab his old one. Its not that bad his old one, 4x45W mosfet pioneer powered head unit. So i'll be using that for the meantime, and the $1000 is going to be for the amp, sub and very nice splits.
If then i'm not happy with the HeadUnit, i'll get a new one later on down the track.

Cheers

I think a few of us are missing the point basically what he is saying is that he wants to upgrade from his ghetto blaster stock system to something around the quality of a fair mini/midi system as for subs under $100 sounding sh!t well i can say that the $40 10" sansui sub in my sisters car made a huge difference, sure i couldnt deal with it in my car but then again i like to listen to my music a little louder and im more into SQ, all she wanted was to take the bass from her 6" speakers and stop headunit clipping trying to make bass so i got her a 2nd hand 4 channel 2 channels hi pass near no gains for the 6" 2 bridged low passed @ 160 htz slightly more gains and a mate donated the sansui sub which he had from a car he brought the sub/amp including wiring cost less than $150 and sounds mad compared to the little pissant system that used to distort ne thing over 15 on the volume now u can wind it upto 25 no distortion and it still has enough power to rattle her parcel shelf. so it wont win ne SQ prizes and certainly wont win ne SPL contests. but it a heap better than what she had and with the 4 channel is a basis which she can upgrade from (which she has she upgraded to a set of cheap splits from the coax up front and made a huge difference to imaging)

You REALLY don't get it do you?????

----------

Anyway, Incarphil has some good advice - careful spending on quality reliable second hand gear, paying particular attention to select good sounding front speakers as well as installing it yourself, will result in an excellent system with minimal money spent.

"I think a few of us are missing the point basically what he is saying is that he wants to upgrade from his ghetto blaster stock system to something around the quality of a fair mini/midi system as for subs under $100 sounding sh!t well i can say that the $40 10" sansui sub in my sisters car made a huge difference, sure i couldnt deal with it in my car but then again i like to listen to my music a little louder and im more into SQ, all she wanted was to take the bass from her 6" speakers and stop headunit clipping trying to make bass so i got her a 2nd hand 4 channel 2 channels hi pass near no gains for the 6" 2 bridged low passed @ 160 htz slightly more gains and a mate donated the sansui sub which he had from a car he brought the sub/amp including wiring cost less than $150 and sounds mad compared to the little pissant system that used to distort ne thing over 15 on the volume now u can wind it upto 25 no distortion and it still has enough power to rattle her parcel shelf." - Komodowagon

That kills me! Komodowagon just set the world record for the longest internet forum post sentence in hisory! I almost passed out from lack of oxygen while trying to read it out loud!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!