EcHo2134
Dec 10 2003, 12:50 AM
Hi
as some of you probably know..still haven't put a system in my car (vw 2001 golf). Taken out the stock head unit, which i then discovered has some sort of amplified antenna system, and the wiring is hooked up to the cars ecu and immobiliser =(.
Anyhow, i'm intend on getting splits. And would like to know if i should shell out to get dynaudio 240gts, boston pro, or focal utopias and use a poor quality install (ie screw them in the factory positions and leave it at that).
OR just get boston rallys, or alpine SPX series speakers and using the money left over to get them properly installed with mdf spacers, and soundproofing in the doors.
Can i please have some of your thoughts please.
Personally i think it doesn't do justice to get > $1000 speakers and put them in stock locations, but i might be wrong.
Thanks
Ernie
puma
Dec 10 2003, 12:54 AM
ever considered installing your loudspeakers in the kicks? they're well worth it.
EcHo2134
Dec 10 2003, 01:01 AM
speakers in kick panels...
thought of that already..but ppl can see it..
considering where i live...and sometimes i park on the street.
i'm scared someone will steal it. then my so called 10g sound system will be byebye =(
this calls for stealth install =). Unless someone lame decides to break into my fully stock looking golf (hubcaps and sheepskin seat covers and all)
RTTZ
Dec 10 2003, 02:59 AM
QUOTE
Originally posted by EcHo2134:
Personally i think it doesn't do justice to get > $1000 speakers and put them in stock locations, but i might be wrong.
Thanks
Ernie
Not wrong there Ernie. How about u get the good speakers, put them in stock locations for now and then later sound damp?
Regards,
Mohan
mick007
Dec 10 2003, 10:59 AM
Sounds like you want to talk about imaging/staging rather then poor instalation. I have the same problem, I have a EBII fairmont and the factory speaker locations are in the sides of the doors. Now I have infinity kappa perfects 900.00 rrp in there and IMO the better the speaker the beeter the sound. If you can get your hands on a time alignment deck OR even put the fader on your deck to the left a little it can still sound like you have a centre image. I can't see you having a problem, unless your entering SQ comps, but then you have bigger issues to worry about then your speakers
Mick
dasherhalo
Dec 10 2003, 12:33 PM
My Boston Pro's went in 3 vehicles, two of them had the speakers mounted in stock locations in the doors.
Sounded good to me.
Marlin
Dec 10 2003, 03:00 PM
My opinion of a good speaker is that it shouldn't matter how dodgy the install is it should sound excellent no matter where you put them though obvioulsy they will sound better with a good install I reckon your better off buying the best speakers you can afford and just bung them in the stock locations you can always get a proper install later on but if you buy cheaper speakers your stuck with them.
Nuffsyd
Dec 10 2003, 04:16 PM
yeah, but cheaper speakers installed well will sound better than good speaker with a crap install.
Marlin
Dec 10 2003, 04:20 PM
Yeh I'll stick some sony splits in with a $1000 install and they will blow away a set of dyns
Trough Lolly
Dec 10 2003, 04:47 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by Marlin:
Yeh I'll stick some sony splits in with a $1000 install and they will blow away a set of dyns
dont be stupid... DNA make splits haha
EcHo2134
Dec 10 2003, 08:37 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. Looks like i'm going to get better speakers. and get the sound damping done later (if i still have the car, its gettting a bit small)
Cheers
Ernie
roughcactus
Dec 10 2003, 10:04 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by Marlin:
Yeh I'll stick some sony splits in with a $1000 install and they will blow away a set of dyns
You may be surprised what you can achieve using cheaper products...if properly installed...
However if you put a set of Focals and a set of Pioneers in the same locations the difference in SQ would be easily noticeable...the install being the same
by the way to all those who suggest kick panels as the be all and end all...they DO NOT work in every car...too many people tend to think they are a magical cure for all front stage ailments...if you experiment you will find what works in your car...not what some people think MAY work
[ December 10, 2003, 20:17: Message edited by: roughcactus ]
shiny_car
Dec 10 2003, 11:51 PM
there are obviously many factors that contribute to SQ. and there are differences between peoples' ideas of SQ and what sounds perfectly good to them.
some SQ elements include:
*frequency response: for example, low-down midbass usually relies on sound deadening doors, sealing service holes, and solid baffle mounts; however, quality midrange and treble relies more on the quality of the speakers themselves
*imaging: relies mostly on installation quality; to a less degree it relies on off-axis performance of speakers where you can't optimally angle the them
*stage height: relies largely on installation technique; however high stage heights can be achieved by mounting tweets up higher
so there are merits in either option.
personally, i'd go with the high quality speakers. mainly coz they will probably end up being a component you can retain for many years, including tranfering them between cars. as mentioned, you can always improve the installation (eg: sound deaden) along the way.
if you can do the installation yourself, then you may find a quality installation is a relatively low-budget affair (sound deadening materials will be the main expense, and probably at least $100).
good luck
[ December 10, 2003, 21:55: Message edited by: shiny_car ]
BlackRain
Dec 16 2003, 09:14 PM
Yeah, go the good speakers.
It makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I mean, sure u could get mediocre speakers and the best install possible..but then where else can u go from there? U'll eventually regret that you didn't get the better ones (anyone else thinkin 'gee thats a familiar feeling' ?).
We dont wanna be doing that now do we?
Iano
Dec 17 2003, 01:51 AM
Ever considered upping the cable quality? People think cables don't make that much of a difference unless your systems worth 1000s. Not true. With the overall quality of HUs being produced lately, a decent signal needs a decent path to travel down. Cables DO make a difference, often quite a big one.
Middle to low range drivers are better than everybody seems to take them for. Speaker sound is coloured VERY easily. I admit I use mid to bottom end splits (//////LPINE SPR-175a) and I've heard these in several different vehicles. They're capable of sounding great, they just require decent mounting/deadening. It's not hard for $350 splits to outperform $600 splits - if the cheaper ones use quality installation and the premium ones dont. True....the more expensive the speaker, the more detail it can produce.....but only if its installed optimally.
[ December 16, 2003, 23:54: Message edited by: Iano ]
shiny_car
Dec 17 2003, 01:02 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by Iano:
Ever considered upping the cable quality?
Cables DO make a difference, often quite a big one.
controversial!
STIK79
Dec 17 2003, 01:07 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by shiny_car:
quote:
Originally posted by Iano:
[b]Ever considered upping the cable quality?
Cables DO make a difference, often quite a big one.
[/b]
Soft shiny soft
I'll just say that someone had a test and people couldn't tell the difference between a drain pipe and a bloody expensive set of RCAs... now explain how that works lol.
You get to a level where it comes down efectively to build quality.
Iano
Dec 26 2003, 05:23 PM
Not just build quality, but the grade of metal used in the cable itself. Copper already has high purity ratings - 99.999% oxygen free. Silver goes higher again, titanium higher still. There is a reason that purist hifi marques charge big bucks for interconnects and speaker cable (you can pay well in excess of $200 per metre for the stuff).
It's because it works. Cables wont add any sonic signature to the sound, they'll just allow more of it to pass through.
Im not intending to stir the worm can here, but in all honesty, people who use standard cabling really dont know what they are missing out on.
Macca
Dec 26 2003, 07:07 PM
Cable Quality doesnt do much....
As long as you get a decent wire, with a decent build quality.
in the end cable is just cable your paying for the brand.
I can go in to finer details, but just search it up on these forums i have made many posts on it.
Yes i use HOME MADE RCA cables. just do a search and you will find out.
Bassaholic
Dec 26 2003, 08:09 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by Iano:
It's because it works. Cables wont add any sonic signature to the sound, they'll just allow more of it to pass through.
In that case, then why bother with expensive cable, when cheap cable has a low enough resistance?
Seriously though, speaker cables can change the response, when the total resistance of the cable is too high. But in most installs, the resistance of the cable is low enough that it does not make a difference. RCA cables don't really change the sound, but poorly designed ones do allow noise to enter the system - but again, there are plenty of unshielded twisted pair RCA cables available at reasonable prices. (If you want it to be cheaper, then you can always make your own...)
----------------------------
EcHo2134 - I would recommend you get better sounding speakers now and install them into the stock locations. (note, how I said better sounding, rather than more expensive..), you can always do the install properly later. Yes kickpanels will stand out, but if the installer is creative enough, it is possible to vinyl them and make a cover for the speakers (that you put in after turning the system off) so the speakers are not as obvious. Remember that car audio theieves usually aren't very bright and can be fooled with a bit of effort...
Iano
Dec 27 2003, 01:52 AM
Bahh think what you all like
This is obviously falling on most of your deaf ears and hey for a amateur carsound hack like myself I probably could be proved wrong.
Just regurgitating my home audio theory here, and I'm sensing that this particular part of it doesnt correlate all that well in a car environemnt...
Marlin
Dec 27 2003, 01:54 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by Iano:
Not just build quality, but the grade of metal used in the cable itself. Copper already has high purity ratings - 99.999% oxygen free. Silver goes higher again, titanium higher still. There is a reason that purist hifi marques charge big bucks for interconnects and speaker cable (you can pay well in excess of $200 per metre for the stuff).
It's because it works. Cables wont add any sonic signature to the sound, they'll just allow more of it to pass through.
Im not intending to stir the worm can here, but in all honesty, people who use standard cabling really dont know what they are missing out on.
Why on earth would you use Titanium RCAs?
And those claiming that a cable will change a signal would you please explain to me how a cable can possibly affect a signal other then eliminating noise hows does it magically improve the quality of the signal over what comes out the headunit? Why do people send thousands of dollars on cable thats easy either they are stupid yuppies who have no scientific knowledge at all or they need to have exceptional noise rejection properties an example of this would be say if your analysing river water for contaminants at the low ppm or ppb level from a helicopter with a probe at the end of a 30ft cable you must have absolutely no noise whatsoever in the system as your signal is so small this is an application where you geniuenly need to have massively shielded and exceedingly expensive cable.
[ December 27, 2003, 12:11: Message edited by: Marlin ]
adrianf
Dec 28 2003, 02:40 AM
titanium???
titanium has VERY low conductivity. and it is damn strong as we all know, how are you going to make a flexible cable out of it???
Iano
Dec 28 2003, 02:46 AM
OK
Take a simple 2 channel system. Integrated amp, CD player, pair of speakers.
Take some cheap dick smith cabling that might set you back $40. Listen to the system for an hour.
Swap the cable over to pricier better quality stuff that will set you back at least $150. Again listen to the system for an hour.
Can't hear a noticable difference? You're lying
bob
Dec 27 2003, 04:41 PM
*sigh*
Here we go again!!!
Bassaholic
Dec 27 2003, 09:40 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by adrianf:
titanium???
titanium has VERY low conductivity. and it is damn strong as we all know, how are you going to make a flexible cable out of it???
Exactly, titanium would make a terrible cable...
Bassaholic
Dec 27 2003, 09:41 PM
QUOTE
Originally posted by bob^:
*sigh*
Here we go again!!!
Tip for Iano - do a search on ABX testing, it is possible that you are the one who is lying to yourself.
Suprathai
Jan 6 2004, 03:27 PM
Try Optic cables, they make a very noticeble difference. Except that prolly selling your soul will prolly not even cover half of the required length.
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