Full Version: Is one 150 DB (possible from my 2 12 inch subs?)
Hey, i have bought 2 cerwin vega 12" strokers, rated at 1000WRMS each sub at 4ohms, i have a EarthQuake Digital amp fully powering both subs at 4ohms, the amp is giving out 1150WRMS to each sub, i have a 2x 10 Fared Capacitors, and a brand new top of the range Pioneer head deck, i went to a well known audio place they said it was impossible to get 150 db with all this equipment set up right in the right spec box, ported, is this true??? i have spend a lot of money, and i am not even going to get to 150db?? any help would be great!! thanks, Mark
Hey Mark,
Mate that is very nice equipment you have there,
150db is possible with that setup for sure, but it wont be easy, the box will have to be very well designed, I have seen a vehicle with an Earthquake D2 and two Crossfire DB 12's hit 151db, and that was in a street car (hatch) with one battery.
The D2 Amp works well with one battery because it is very efficient and doesnt draw as much current as other big Amps, however at your current setting (I assume you have the 4ohm speakers parralelled) the load on the Amp is two ohms, for maximum one-off power the D2 works best into 1ohm.
This will cause the Amp to heat up however and is not recommended for day to day use , unless you want to run a fan on the Amp.
If you are looking at SPL comps then maybe you can change the load on the Amp,are your strokers dual voice coil??.
------------------
TEAM DD "In the Lanes, takin names"
Project "Full Effect" coming soon - Street SPL!!
SPL King Wagga 2002/SAS 2002
Broken window/hurt hand Wagga 2002
Best 158.4db from 2x DD9515's on TERMPRO (SAS 2002)
Mate that is very nice equipment you have there,
150db is possible with that setup for sure, but it wont be easy, the box will have to be very well designed, I have seen a vehicle with an Earthquake D2 and two Crossfire DB 12's hit 151db, and that was in a street car (hatch) with one battery.
The D2 Amp works well with one battery because it is very efficient and doesnt draw as much current as other big Amps, however at your current setting (I assume you have the 4ohm speakers parralelled) the load on the Amp is two ohms, for maximum one-off power the D2 works best into 1ohm.
This will cause the Amp to heat up however and is not recommended for day to day use , unless you want to run a fan on the Amp.
If you are looking at SPL comps then maybe you can change the load on the Amp,are your strokers dual voice coil??.
------------------
TEAM DD "In the Lanes, takin names"
Project "Full Effect" coming soon - Street SPL!!
SPL King Wagga 2002/SAS 2002
Broken window/hurt hand Wagga 2002
Best 158.4db from 2x DD9515's on TERMPRO (SAS 2002)
what car?
now it is possible with plenty of testing to get 150dB with 2 12s and one amp, however it is a lot easier with a lot of power
one of the things succesful SPL competitors do to get more power out of their amplifiers
is run them at lower nominal loads than they are rated at - due to impedance rise, the impedance at your cars "resonant frequency" will still be above what the amp is designed to do
(strictly for SPL comps and with correcly tuned boxes - don't tune the port to your cars "resonant frequency" and don't play many tones or the amp will quickly heat up)
for example, some cars that were very successful in the dBdrag street class last year (2x12" and one amp hitting around 154dB) used an Earthquake phd2 amp, which is rated at 2000w.rms at 2 ohm. They ran their amp at 0.5 ohm nominal, which if you were comparing to the power at 2 ohms, would be the equivalent of 8000w.rms!
However, I'd only recommend running 2 levels down if you know what you are doing, otherwise running an amp rated at 2 ohm nominal, at 1 ohm nominal (just for SPL burps) would be safer
--------
now 150dB certainly isn't easy with 2 12s and only about 1000wrms, expect to spend plenty of time with a meter, playing with different box locations and also trying different box designs
a good battery is important, as well as plenty thick power wiring
you may also find that your capacitors don't help much (or may even reduce your SPL)
------------------
- A proud member of Team Gates - A proud supporter of the CAA SPL project
now it is possible with plenty of testing to get 150dB with 2 12s and one amp, however it is a lot easier with a lot of power
one of the things succesful SPL competitors do to get more power out of their amplifiers
is run them at lower nominal loads than they are rated at - due to impedance rise, the impedance at your cars "resonant frequency" will still be above what the amp is designed to do
(strictly for SPL comps and with correcly tuned boxes - don't tune the port to your cars "resonant frequency" and don't play many tones or the amp will quickly heat up)
for example, some cars that were very successful in the dBdrag street class last year (2x12" and one amp hitting around 154dB) used an Earthquake phd2 amp, which is rated at 2000w.rms at 2 ohm. They ran their amp at 0.5 ohm nominal, which if you were comparing to the power at 2 ohms, would be the equivalent of 8000w.rms!
However, I'd only recommend running 2 levels down if you know what you are doing, otherwise running an amp rated at 2 ohm nominal, at 1 ohm nominal (just for SPL burps) would be safer
--------
now 150dB certainly isn't easy with 2 12s and only about 1000wrms, expect to spend plenty of time with a meter, playing with different box locations and also trying different box designs
a good battery is important, as well as plenty thick power wiring
you may also find that your capacitors don't help much (or may even reduce your SPL)
------------------
- A proud member of Team Gates - A proud supporter of the CAA SPL project
Hey, yeah theyr duel voice coil! My Amp is the 200DHC Earthquake amp, it is still the eartjquake digital one, does this make a lot of difference?? It is 1150WRMS x 2 at 4ohms, 2000WRMS at 2ohms! And how easy is it to hook up a fan?? thanks for ur help! Much apreciated!
Mark
[Edited 1 time by markjh27 on 03 October 2002 at 22:33]
Mark
[Edited 1 time by markjh27 on 03 October 2002 at 22:33]
Hey Bassaholic,
The car is a VN Calais! how would the caps reduse my db rating?? isa it best to use oine?? thanks for all ur help! I am hoping t put a fan to it as i want it for day to day use as well as for comps!
Cheers, Mark
The car is a VN Calais! how would the caps reduse my db rating?? isa it best to use oine?? thanks for all ur help! I am hoping t put a fan to it as i want it for day to day use as well as for comps!
Cheers, Mark
fans are quite easy to hook up.
just use a relay that is triggered by the remote wire from the headunit or a switch and connect the fan to the relay.
read up on the relays in the technical section of the site (on the menu bar)
------------------
SUB: Digital Designs
AMPS: MTX
STUFF: JAYCAR
LIVE TO DOOF
just use a relay that is triggered by the remote wire from the headunit or a switch and connect the fan to the relay.
read up on the relays in the technical section of the site (on the menu bar)
------------------
SUB: Digital Designs
AMPS: MTX
STUFF: JAYCAR
ok, since the subs are DVC (each coil is 4 ohm right?)
you should hook them up in series-parallel (the coils in series, subs in parallel) for daily driving and most testing - this will result in a 4 ohm load
then once you have your box tuned for max SPL, then you can wire them in parallel-parallel, for a 1 ohm load, so you get more power for SPL burps
-------------------
as far as the car goes, unfortunately a VN sedan is much less likely to be able to hit 150dB, than a small hatch
------------------
- A proud member of Team Gates - A proud supporter of the CAA SPL project
you should hook them up in series-parallel (the coils in series, subs in parallel) for daily driving and most testing - this will result in a 4 ohm load
then once you have your box tuned for max SPL, then you can wire them in parallel-parallel, for a 1 ohm load, so you get more power for SPL burps
-------------------
as far as the car goes, unfortunately a VN sedan is much less likely to be able to hit 150dB, than a small hatch
------------------
- A proud member of Team Gates - A proud supporter of the CAA SPL project
hey, yeah thats what everybody tells me about the vn, damn, has anyone heard these subs in action?? Do they sound any good?? What about with normal music?? thanks, Mark
is that one of the ealier model earthquakes... they don't like 1ohm loads right?
but getting 150db from a big sedan is going to be pretty hard... good luck buddy, all i can say is you'll just have to test test test and more testing...
------------------
2002 Holden Astra
HU: Blaupunkt Miami Beach
Front Stage: Orion XTR 6.2
Front Amp: PPI 2360 2x90
Subs: 2 x Audiobahn 1200Q
Sub Amp: JBL 1200.1
Dead Last at Drag Combat 2-3 Woofer class
Winner at BAS 161-260sq inch.
but getting 150db from a big sedan is going to be pretty hard... good luck buddy, all i can say is you'll just have to test test test and more testing...
------------------
2002 Holden Astra
HU: Blaupunkt Miami Beach
Front Stage: Orion XTR 6.2
Front Amp: PPI 2360 2x90
Subs: 2 x Audiobahn 1200Q
Sub Amp: JBL 1200.1
Dead Last at Drag Combat 2-3 Woofer class
Winner at BAS 161-260sq inch.
2 questions, do u hav lpg? and have you thought about a wall?
if you dotn have lpg i would suggest using the same box design as what were doign with one of our cars at the moment, vs clubsport, and using the ski port as the port for your box, then start playing around with the tuning and size of the box.
The other option for a sedan would be to pull out the spare wheel and fiberglass it then, raise the level of the floor to get your desired box volume than pull off your boot lid and put 3 -4 layers of glass on it so its rock solid, then have the port firing into the boot lid and let ir resonate into the cabin.
Another option would be to go a wall in the car. however first off you need to decide what class you want to go into then work your system around it. However by the sounds of it you have spent alot of cash already on really good gear (strokers being frightfully expensive) however wiht as alot of the guys have said with alot of testing and different box building 150 will be in reach, if you go with a wall then you might think about adding another amp, but do it all with the power you have on tap now then upgrade when you feel it nessicary. But personally you should get there. Hell im aiming for 160 in a wagon off 2 12's
cheers
jon
------------------
hu: kenwood 9018
Front stage: 3-way Dls Magnesiums 6.5" with ultimate tweeters and dynaudio 9.5"
subs: Wall housing 2 x DLS sp12 d2
Amps f/s: Valve Audio class A 4 x 100 rear 2 ch running dyns
Sub stage Amp:2x Valve Audio twin monoblocks 3kwea
Power: 5 x yellow tops, 180amp alt
visual: kenwood 8" widescreen, xbox enigma 5.6" tft
Team Gates
Supporter of CAA SPL Project
if you dotn have lpg i would suggest using the same box design as what were doign with one of our cars at the moment, vs clubsport, and using the ski port as the port for your box, then start playing around with the tuning and size of the box.
The other option for a sedan would be to pull out the spare wheel and fiberglass it then, raise the level of the floor to get your desired box volume than pull off your boot lid and put 3 -4 layers of glass on it so its rock solid, then have the port firing into the boot lid and let ir resonate into the cabin.
Another option would be to go a wall in the car. however first off you need to decide what class you want to go into then work your system around it. However by the sounds of it you have spent alot of cash already on really good gear (strokers being frightfully expensive) however wiht as alot of the guys have said with alot of testing and different box building 150 will be in reach, if you go with a wall then you might think about adding another amp, but do it all with the power you have on tap now then upgrade when you feel it nessicary. But personally you should get there. Hell im aiming for 160 in a wagon off 2 12's
cheers
jon
------------------
hu: kenwood 9018
Front stage: 3-way Dls Magnesiums 6.5" with ultimate tweeters and dynaudio 9.5"
subs: Wall housing 2 x DLS sp12 d2
Amps f/s: Valve Audio class A 4 x 100 rear 2 ch running dyns
Sub stage Amp:2x Valve Audio twin monoblocks 3kwea
Power: 5 x yellow tops, 180amp alt
visual: kenwood 8" widescreen, xbox enigma 5.6" tft
Team Gates
Supporter of CAA SPL Project
In a VN you are gonna have a HEAP of trouble getting 150db i think...
if u just want some big numbers, can u borrow a hatchback for the day?
If u just want it to be loud for the streets, that will stil be VERY loud in a commodore, just not 150db i don't think.
------------------
Team Mitsubishi Mirage
Now Enhanced With Bass
"Making CAA more popular than the TypeR badge!"
if u just want some big numbers, can u borrow a hatchback for the day?
If u just want it to be loud for the streets, that will stil be VERY loud in a commodore, just not 150db i don't think.
------------------
Team Mitsubishi Mirage
Now Enhanced With Bass
"Making CAA more popular than the TypeR badge!"
quote:
Originally posted by rippedskin:
is that one of the ealier model earthquakes... they don't like 1ohm loads right?
for quick burps it should be ok
it definitely doesn't like 1 ohm for daily driving..
------------------
- A proud member of Team Gates - A proud supporter of the CAA SPL project
Am I the only one who thinks it would be easy to hit 150 with that gear (in a hatch?)??? Or is it because meters in QLD for some reason readi higher? *hint* we need official dB drag in QLD *hint*
Dude, for normal music, those subs are sweet! but the amp is not exactly the best sounding amp around, its made for pure power, thats about it...
------------------
System Includes:
Pioneer DLS HERTZ XTANT Phoenix Gold
www.members.sounddomain.com/bodyjar
1st Place, Drag Combat 2002, 1 Woofer class
Dude, for normal music, those subs are sweet! but the amp is not exactly the best sounding amp around, its made for pure power, thats about it...
------------------
System Includes:
www.members.sounddomain.com/bodyjar
1st Place, Drag Combat 2002, 1 Woofer class
For strokers to get loud you well need a very large box/port combo,well take up almost all of your boot.Do the rear seats fold down in your commodore if so you could make a mini wall behind them.I think 150 is possable but like every one says you'll have to work for it.There was a sedan at finals with a mini wall runing a D2 and RE subs(not totaly sure of the subs)did 154db something in st 1-2.
Clarkie
------------------
NZ Record
st 1-2
150.7db
K/wood 12"DVC(x2)
K/wood D class
Clarkie
------------------
NZ Record
st 1-2
150.7db
K/wood 12"DVC(x2)
K/wood D class
i don't think meters here are higher then south...
the reason why people are not hitting mid-high 40's with a single 12 is because:
a) they don't have the power
b) the install isn't good enough
c) car isn't good for spl
bodyjar, you are lucky to have all a, b, and c. (well power wise you seem to have borrowed it, but i know you are dying to get your hands on a powerful amp ) you also seemed to have mastered the insatll first go, that seems to load up quite nicely in your car. and of course, your car is pretty small...
mark, if you want to get 150db easier build a wall. otherwise you'll just have to try different things and hope they work.
------------------
2002 Holden Astra
HU: Blaupunkt Miami Beach
Front Stage: Orion XTR 6.2
Front Amp: PPI 2360 2x90
Subs: 2 x Audiobahn 1200Q
Sub Amp: JBL 1200.1
Dead Last at Drag Combat 2-3 Woofer class
Winner at BAS 161-260sq inch.
the reason why people are not hitting mid-high 40's with a single 12 is because:
a) they don't have the power
b) the install isn't good enough
c) car isn't good for spl
bodyjar, you are lucky to have all a, b, and c. (well power wise you seem to have borrowed it, but i know you are dying to get your hands on a powerful amp
) you also seemed to have mastered the insatll first go, that seems to load up quite nicely in your car. and of course, your car is pretty small...mark, if you want to get 150db easier build a wall. otherwise you'll just have to try different things and hope they work.
------------------
2002 Holden Astra
HU: Blaupunkt Miami Beach
Front Stage: Orion XTR 6.2
Front Amp: PPI 2360 2x90
Subs: 2 x Audiobahn 1200Q
Sub Amp: JBL 1200.1
Dead Last at Drag Combat 2-3 Woofer class
Winner at BAS 161-260sq inch.
thanks everybody for all ur help! what is a wall?? what does it consist of?? Would sound deadning help?? Is it easy to apply? i am aiming for everyday use as well as comps! How can i achiev this?? Thanks again everybody, u have all really helped!
Mark
Mark
quote:
Originally posted by Bassaholic:
for quick burps it should be ok
it definitely doesn't like 1 ohm for daily driving..
I'm pretty sure rippedskin is correct. As the owner of a EQ 200DHC MkI (not for long as it blew up and I sent it back) I read into it plenty and no one recommends burping them at 1ohm as they have a smaller power supply consisting of only 8 mosfets (I think i'll check the pics when I get home) whereas the 200DHC MkII & PHD2 run 12 mosfets in the powersupply.
The MkI & MkII can be recognised quickly by the speaker terminals. The MkI has dual 12GA terminals and the MkII like the PHD2 has single 8GA terminals.
------------------
Car: '90 Nissan Pintara (sedan)
Headunit: JVC KD-SX750
Fronts: TotalRecoil Carsplit.6
Frontamp: Alpine MRV-T301
Sub: 2x Alpine SWR-1240D
Subamp: Lanzar VPro 2000D
SPL: 145.4db (Doran Test Day - 29/09/02)
"If its not quick, may aswell make it slower"
Ripped, i'm sorry, I just can't believe it! I need proof damit! I'm thinking of driving down to FB to finally get proof 
------------------
System Includes:
Pioneer DLS HERTZ XTANT Phoenix Gold
www.members.sounddomain.com/bodyjar
1st Place, Drag Combat 2002, 1 Woofer class
------------------
System Includes:
www.members.sounddomain.com/bodyjar
1st Place, Drag Combat 2002, 1 Woofer class
thanks, have u or anyone heard these subs in action?? do they sound any good?? With normal music?? thanks fellas,
Mark
Mark
i am thinking of selling all this, as i might b buying a new car, i am not really fussed weather i sell it or not, but am open to offers
1x Pioneer TOTR Head Deck, i think it's the 9250, it has 4v pre outs and mp3.
2x 12" DVC Cerwin Vega Strokers (1000 WRMS Each)
1x Earthquake Digital Amp, 200DHC (1150 WRMS at 4 ohms, 2000WRMS at 2ohms)
2x 10 Fared Capacitors
no Speaker amps or speakers
Mark
1x Pioneer TOTR Head Deck, i think it's the 9250, it has 4v pre outs and mp3.
2x 12" DVC Cerwin Vega Strokers (1000 WRMS Each)
1x Earthquake Digital Amp, 200DHC (1150 WRMS at 4 ohms, 2000WRMS at 2ohms)
2x 10 Fared Capacitors
no Speaker amps or speakers
Mark
quote:
Originally posted by Clarkie:
For strokers to get loud you well need a very large box/port combo,well take up almost all of your boot.Do the rear seats fold down in your commodore if so you could make a mini wall behind them.I think 150 is possable but like every one says you'll have to work for it.There was a sedan at finals with a mini wall runing a D2 and RE subs(not totaly sure of the subs)did 154db something in st 1-2.
Clarkie
yes, the subs were edit - shocker extreme subs
but yes, that is probably the best idea in this case..
a large box built in the boot, with the rest of the boot sealed off from the cabin (some people call that a mini wall), subs on drivers side with the port on the passengers side
------------------
- A proud member of Team Gates - A proud supporter of the CAA SPL project
[Edited 1 time by Bassaholic on 09 October 2002 at 09:51]
quote:
Originally posted by Andu:
I'm pretty sure rippedskin is correct. As the owner of a EQ 200DHC MkI (not for long as it blew up and I sent it back) I read into it plenty and no one recommends burping them at 1ohm as they have a smaller power supply consisting *snip*
but the actual impedance won't be below 2 ohm, so if it can't run at 1 ohm for burps, then it wouldn't be rated at running 2 ohm loads
------------------
- A proud member of Team Gates - A proud supporter of the CAA SPL project
Ahh ok, i am going to consider one of these walls, what about SQ, will i have any type of good sound quality in the cabin?? thanks, Mark
first off you said 'not even going to get 150 db !"
let me tell you 150 in a vn is very hard to do it is possible but it does not happen overnight !!
if you said 145 i would have said that would be achievable.
I have a vn and have been db dragging for a couple of years now and know a little on what it takes !!
We are trying for 150 in a full size car and have blown up lots of things in testing.
p.s go s/street 1-2 and it will be a lot easier !!
------------------
Holden VN group A
Alpine head unit - check
Alpine amp - check
Boston splits - check
Boston sub - check
149.1 db and counting !!
Note new db reading !!
let me tell you 150 in a vn is very hard to do it is possible but it does not happen overnight !!
if you said 145 i would have said that would be achievable.
I have a vn and have been db dragging for a couple of years now and know a little on what it takes !!
We are trying for 150 in a full size car and have blown up lots of things in testing.
p.s go s/street 1-2 and it will be a lot easier !!
------------------
Holden VN group A
Alpine head unit - check
Alpine amp - check
Boston splits - check
Boston sub - check
149.1 db and counting !!
Note new db reading !!
what i said on fastfours
------------------
- 2nd S3-4 Supernats 2001 -
- 1st SS3-4 Final Batle 2001 -
- 1st H W D SCS 2001 -
- 1st 601+ & Loudest Over All Summernats 2002 -
- 1st SS3-4 Wagga 2002 -
- 1st 601+ GLO 2002 -
- 2nd SS3-4 SAS 2002 -
- 1st SS3-4 MAS 2002 -
- SPL KING MAS 2002 -
------------------
- 2nd S3-4 Supernats 2001 -
- 1st SS3-4 Final Batle 2001 -
- 1st H W D SCS 2001 -
- 1st 601+ & Loudest Over All Summernats 2002 -
- 1st SS3-4 Wagga 2002 -
- 1st 601+ GLO 2002 -
- 2nd SS3-4 SAS 2002 -
- 1st SS3-4 MAS 2002 -
- SPL KING MAS 2002 -
what is s/street 1-2?/
s1-2 (street 1-2), ss1-2 (super street 1-2). they are different classes of offical db drags...
s1-2, allows for one amp and upto 2 (no bigger then) 12" subs. you have to have the box fit in the boot as well, so basically your setup now is s1-2, provided you get rid of the caps, s1-2 allows for 1F cap.
ss1-2, allows for mutiple amps, bigger subs, hence they usually produced louder cars.
for more info on the classes, goto www.termpro.com then click on a link somewhere there.
------------------
2002 Holden Astra
HU: Blaupunkt Miami Beach
Front Stage: Orion XTR 6.2
Front Amp: PPI 2360 2x90
Subs: 2 x Audiobahn 1200Q
Sub Amp: JBL 1200.1
Dead Last at Drag Combat 2-3 Woofer class
Winner at BAS 161-260sq inch.
s1-2, allows for one amp and upto 2 (no bigger then) 12" subs. you have to have the box fit in the boot as well, so basically your setup now is s1-2, provided you get rid of the caps, s1-2 allows for 1F cap.
ss1-2, allows for mutiple amps, bigger subs, hence they usually produced louder cars.
for more info on the classes, goto www.termpro.com then click on a link somewhere there.
------------------
2002 Holden Astra
HU: Blaupunkt Miami Beach
Front Stage: Orion XTR 6.2
Front Amp: PPI 2360 2x90
Subs: 2 x Audiobahn 1200Q
Sub Amp: JBL 1200.1
Dead Last at Drag Combat 2-3 Woofer class
Winner at BAS 161-260sq inch.
Thanks for that, could anyone recomend a great install place in melbourne?? thanks mate
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.