OK I now have a new ride and a new install is on the way and designing of enclosures has been started.
I would like ppl to post their setups/opinions of their setups in Sedans in relation to:
~Directional Loading - what direction the sub fires.
~port direction - up, back, forward.
~how much modification is needed to get better air-flow from boot/cabin.
~how far the sub is away from the boot-lid if rear-loaded.
cheers I was thinking of rear loading ports back, but have been told ports up is better, but for SPL I was planning of taking the back seat out to rapidly improve the airflow from the boot-cabin
Damo
Full Version: SUB Loading in Sedans for SPL
Ive found rear loading the subs and ports facing slightly up sounds the best.
as for rear fill dont have any just the holes to let the S/P through
as for rear fill dont have any just the holes to let the S/P through
sedans, always fire up into the boot lid, or mini wall.
What do people think of firing the subs into the bootlid and having the ports firing back?
I Found that in my car there was a great increase in spl by facing the subs up and around ten inches from the the bootlid and as far back in the boot as possible. I also found that there is not a alot of difference if you face them towards the rear of the car on no angle at all just as far back as possible.
With ports i always got the impression that the should face the same way as the subs fire so not to cause cancellation of the wave created by the speaker.
With ports i always got the impression that the should face the same way as the subs fire so not to cause cancellation of the wave created by the speaker.
personally i found firing directly into the cabin, with both port and sub was the way to go. i had around a 3db loss when i tried rear loading.
there is no definite answer..
in my camry it is louder with rear loading ..
i only face it up cos my brother puts his bag in da boot all the time and i dont wanna hurt my baby
in my camry it is louder with rear loading ..
i only face it up cos my brother puts his bag in da boot all the time and i dont wanna hurt my baby
2.1db I gained facing forwards in my pintara, wasn't even a mini-wall just my rear-load box turned around... can't wait to test my new mini-wallish box
alright here a bit of compraseen. unless you get your box tested in the defferent postion you cant tell stuff all!
few weeks ago was at doran. me and andu both have sedans. he is rear loading gets 146. he faces them forard 148. so im like sik ill try it.
i rear load them i get 144 i face them forward i get 137. WTF? u tell me.
stop asking questions and go and try it. you will NEVER know if you never try!
few weeks ago was at doran. me and andu both have sedans. he is rear loading gets 146. he faces them forard 148. so im like sik ill try it.
i rear load them i get 144 i face them forward i get 137. WTF? u tell me.
stop asking questions and go and try it. you will NEVER know if you never try!
Like I said I would like to know what ppl have tried and especially ppl with Lancer's!
If I rear load I have X amount of boot room but if I load upways I have only X amount of boot space, and with spending countless hours on BassBoxPro-6 I dont really want to try multible enclosures, If you design right first time there should be no rebuilding in the future!
If I rear load I have X amount of boot room but if I load upways I have only X amount of boot space, and with spending countless hours on BassBoxPro-6 I dont really want to try multible enclosures, If you design right first time there should be no rebuilding in the future!
a computer program will never be able to detrmine the BEST possible box for your car it can gibe youestimates and idea's but to achive the perfect box u must build more then 1 box. if you do want the perfect box then build them simple and cheap and see what works the best.
I second that.... nuthan beats real life.
QUOTE
Originally posted by Earthquake:
Like I said I would like to know what ppl have tried and especially ppl with Lancer's!
Did someone say lancers?Like I said I would like to know what ppl have tried and especially ppl with Lancer's!
I have found that with the setups I have used loading, either rear or up, had always been better (louder) than facing forward. But that's just me. I haven't really noticed any db difference with my current box facing rear or up, but i find when rear loading, closer to the back (about 30cm) is louder than too far away.
Does anyone else have similar/different experiences?
Earthquake you've seen the difference rear loading did in my lancer (although it is a CC). In a sealed box 126db facing forwards in miniwall and 132db rear loading (no changes other than turning the box around). I'd say you probably will get similar results.
the resonant freq might change when you load the port/subs differently, so to do the test properly, you'd have to use different ports... all about trial n error...
basically get ur res freq of the car with a sealed box(where the box will be)
make the ported with a long port and start making it smaller and smaller by 1cm at a time till it peaks out(you will have to go one step to far) then u build a new port to that right length and voila. a meter helps with this
[ December 13, 2002, 19:13: Message edited by: KraSE ]
make the ported with a long port and start making it smaller and smaller by 1cm at a time till it peaks out(you will have to go one step to far) then u build a new port to that right length and voila. a meter helps with this
[ December 13, 2002, 19:13: Message edited by: KraSE ]
What programs have ppl used and tried and opinions?
BaseBoxPro6 - Love it - need a phsics degree to understand all of it or spend 30hrs reading the manual like I did
BaseBoxPro6 - Love it - need a phsics degree to understand all of it or spend 30hrs reading the manual like I did
no programe will take into acount the transfer function + plus a s ripped saidd when u move the box it changes,
testing in car is the only real way
* this post maybe influenced but jim beam
testing in car is the only real way
* this post maybe influenced but jim beam
OK, I have a good size box to try so I should try:
~rear loading ports firing same direction
~rear loading ports up
~rear loading ports firing into cabin
~Upwards loading ports up
~upwards loading ports back
~upwards loading ports forward
and for rear loading try 10cm, 20cm, 30cm, 40cm and 50cm from bootlid.
c'mon are there any more lancers out there?
someone must have the resonace of a Mitsubishi Lancer Coupe??
cheers guys for all the help
~rear loading ports firing same direction
~rear loading ports up
~rear loading ports firing into cabin
~Upwards loading ports up
~upwards loading ports back
~upwards loading ports forward
and for rear loading try 10cm, 20cm, 30cm, 40cm and 50cm from bootlid.
c'mon are there any more lancers out there?
someone must have the resonace of a Mitsubishi Lancer Coupe??
cheers guys for all the help
quote:
Originally posted by KraSE:
[b]make the ported with a long port and start making it smaller and smaller by 1cm at a time till it peaks out(you will have to go one step to far) then u build a new port to that right length and voila. a meter helps with this it's quicker and less painfull
QUOTE
Originally posted by Earthquake:
~rear loading ports firing same direction
~rear loading ports up
~rear loading ports firing into cabin
~Upwards loading ports up
~upwards loading ports back
~upwards loading ports forward
i wouldn't bother trying number 2, 3, 6. instead, throw in:~rear loading ports firing same direction
~rear loading ports up
~rear loading ports firing into cabin
~Upwards loading ports up
~upwards loading ports back
~upwards loading ports forward
1. subs and ports into the cabin
2. subs into the cabin, port to the side of car (just to be different )
QUOTE
Originally posted by rippedskin:
the resonant freq might change when you load the port/subs differently, so to do the test properly, you'd have to use different ports... all about trial n error...
i seconded this. when rear loading my resonant freq is around 57hz but when facing into the cabin (not a mini wall) it is around 53hz.
the resonant freq might change when you load the port/subs differently, so to do the test properly, you'd have to use different ports... all about trial n error...
QUOTE
Originally posted by rippedskin:
Agreed, since 1" usually works out to be ~1Hz dff in tuning, it should be fine. For real SPL, you want to get a CD of tones, a long port, a saw, and a mic. Play a range of notes, get a result for each (make sure batt don't get drained, and let the gear cool occasionally), then cut an inch off, and repeat. You end up with a bunch of numbers, pick the highest, and you have found your port length and note. Then comes fine tuning quote:
Originally posted by KraSE:
[b]make the ported with a long port and start making it smaller and smaller by 1cm at a time till it peaks out(you will have to go one step to far) then u build a new port to that right length and voila. a meter helps with this it's quicker and less painfull
Lot of work, but who said SPL was easier than SQ?
Definately firing up, with ports and subs on the same plane.
You must leave at least 200mm airspace from the boot lid, for best results fibreglass the bootlid (check class rules first!).
Willy's Corolla sedan makes over 153, and I've done a stack of other sedans that push into the 150s.
Nothing works as consistantly well as this.
Phil
You must leave at least 200mm airspace from the boot lid, for best results fibreglass the bootlid (check class rules first!).
Willy's Corolla sedan makes over 153, and I've done a stack of other sedans that push into the 150s.
Nothing works as consistantly well as this.
Phil
hmmmm so Firing "UP" and ports "UP" as well!!
very interesting, PHIL, these guys who hit 150's what gear did they have and what power were they using?
cheers Damon
very interesting, PHIL, these guys who hit 150's what gear did they have and what power were they using?
cheers Damon
This WRX has hit 153db with 2 bp1200 amps in SS3-4 this was on the TermPro meter.He has changed the box several time's to get this result.
http://www.canze.org.nz/contributions/imag...ep/Dcp00625.jpg
Clarkie
http://www.canze.org.nz/contributions/imag...ep/Dcp00625.jpg
Clarkie
Wrong section but anyway... How does sub UP and port UP affect SQ?
I'm building a box today, to be installed like that and i forgot to ask if it sounds any different quality-wise.
I'm building a box today, to be installed like that and i forgot to ask if it sounds any different quality-wise.
QUOTE
Originally posted by Stone:
Wrong section but anyway... How does sub UP and port UP affect SQ?
I'm building a box today, to be installed like that and i forgot to ask if it sounds any different quality-wise.
Funnily enough, what is good for SPL can often be good for SQ (apart from tuning boxes to 60Hz+...). This is because with either, you want minimal cancelation (the reason 'rear loading' works). The reflected wave should be as in phase with the orignal as possible. So if your subs and port are firing up, at the rear of the boot, the reflected wave (from the back of boot and boot lid) will be very close to the original. Eddie Runner had a rather handy paper on it: http://www.installer.com/tech/aiming.html
Wrong section but anyway... How does sub UP and port UP affect SQ?
I'm building a box today, to be installed like that and i forgot to ask if it sounds any different quality-wise.
IMO, good numbers should be achievable, but seperating the boot from the cabin, and firing port and subs at the dash.
I know people have pulled 150+ in sedans with this method.
I know people have pulled 150+ in sedans with this method.
I have tried my first box ports back subs back with 20-30cm gap from the box to the bootlid, inbrelation to that arctcle it was very interesting reading, but with the bootlid open there is little differnce in SPL, not like rear loading in a hatch where all the SPL is lost when the hatch is open!
QUOTE
Originally posted by Earthquake:
someone must have the resonace of a Mitsubishi Lancer Coupe??
Well from playing test tones and just listeing my lancer seems to resonate at about 47Hz. I know this won't be too accurate though. Also I have a CC Lancer and you have a CE so it might make a little difference.
someone must have the resonace of a Mitsubishi Lancer Coupe??
Is that with your seat up or down??? (rear)
I'm sure it is very minimal!
has anyone worked out either model with an RTA and a flat box???
I'm sure it is very minimal!
has anyone worked out either model with an RTA and a flat box???
The absolute undisputed God of sedan SPL... Mike Stiers. Enclosure used at 2001 DB Drag World Finals in Street 1-2: 154.5db in a sedan!
what subs are they?
QUOTE
Originally posted by rippedskin:
what subs are they?
boring old shockerz, they work but every man and his dog seems to have a pair these days
what subs are they?
Is that a mini-wall setup
in my commy vt the final install i ended up doing (and undoubtably the best spl wise) was a sealed box holding the two 12s built into the spare wheel well (and above), with the subs firing upwards.
Tried firing rearwards - not impressive at all (dont think i had the box design right thou)
Tried firing forwards - great sq, even with the seat up, but in terms of spl pretty forgettable.
In a mates silvia we ended up firing the subs forward (dual 10s) and its considerably louder with the seat up covering the subs then with the seat down... why would this be?!
edit - typo
[ January 02, 2003, 04:59: Message edited by: blownvt ]
Tried firing rearwards - not impressive at all (dont think i had the box design right thou)
Tried firing forwards - great sq, even with the seat up, but in terms of spl pretty forgettable.
In a mates silvia we ended up firing the subs forward (dual 10s) and its considerably louder with the seat up covering the subs then with the seat down... why would this be?!
edit - typo
[ January 02, 2003, 04:59: Message edited by: blownvt ]
I'm incorporating the Spare Tyre well as the enclosure, using lots of fibre-glass and putting in a flase floor, I will actually have more boot room than having an external box!!
thanks guys!!
damon
thanks guys!!
damon
good job. u wont regret fg'ing the wheel well
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