Whilst I dont have a solution, I'm not sure how far it would be for people who have 2 x 15's. It is a common setup, and it wouldn't be considered too hardcore. But Joe Blow who has 2 x 15's running off a mono block can be up against someone who has 1 amp per coil. If your using RF as a example. You could have 2 x 15,s which handle 2000rms peak. Have 4 bd1000's even bd1500's if you want and could be supplying 4000/6000wrms. I think the poor guy in the lane beside you running the 4 x 100 jaycar would have a heart attck

Also Krase, i'm not taking a stab at you, but what would unlimited sd'ing provide.

The only thing i can think of is that if you got really happy it would almost act as bracing, thus your energy would be turned into sound.

I could quite easily be wrong tho.

I guess it's the same as any level of competition to an extent though. You always need certain equipment to crack 1st place in this class. Otherwise it wouldn't be a competition.

Just the same as Ferrari Vs. Minardi in F1 really isn't it? Minardi doesn't stand a chance, but are in the same class as Ferrari.

I see your point, and I am sure you see mine.

2 biggest issues here, are finding a compromise, whilst keeping the number of different classes down.

You have it, In spl you don't want it for it sound deadning purpose more to make the cabin rigid. while i ahppy with this people have in the past when not givin limits used this to the advantage.

Also what I type as suggestion are not always the best, I may think they are . As I am a the spokesperson for the new rules I want as much feedback from you guys to help make the best possible rules so I can get back to Marc with what you guys want in the rules. So give feedback on other people suggetions aswell like mine, I don't mean attack them but say if you agree, disagree, why etc.

If for any reason you don't want to on the forum and rather in private I am usally in CAA chat room or drop me a e-mail krase@westnet.com.au and we can discuss it there.

well atm the person with the 2x 15"s would be in stock 3-4 class more than likely depending on his install. and the car with a amp per coil would be Modified 1-2. so they are not directly up against each other.

But in the end SPL is a sport. People want to win and if that means a amp per coil thats whats need to win. ATM in db Drag in SS and extreme 8 amps(1500-2000wrms per amp aswell) per sub is pretty much the norm. expensive yes. Thats why I am happy to see amp limits in Modified.

CAAdB and dB Drag are not to much disimilar, but the two have very distinct differances. Mainly amps limits and we will see in the final rules. And they both have great protential to work and work togeather to build a very strong SPL scene here in Australia. You are able to slot into classes in each diffrent format with realitive easy and not be shoved into a higher class 99.9% of the time(a simple change to your setup may stop this aswell). So with a decent schedual of events from both formats in the near future I hope to see some good numbers be generated.

Not really a mjor greivance... just semantics - sorta...

Basically you're saying, you cant do something... and then saying we dont have the knowledge to check... eh - just threw it up there for grabs

although high output alternators are banned in stock class, multiple standard alternators are not banned.

I'm sure this has to be an oversight. Just incase it's not better head off to the wreckers for another couple of alternators this weekend

Ooops, forgot to put the alternator bit in

I'm sure everyone can see where I was coming from with the whole ADR thing, but it looks like it is going to be too difficult to word effectively.

What it was getting at, is that we didn't want guys hacking there cars up willy nilly for SPL competition, then driving home and the floor falls out etc etc.

well, maybe instead of ADR's make it
"vehicle is not modified in such a way as to make it unroadworthy, as defined by the roads and traffic authority in your state"

if someone sets a record, and it appears that they have dangerously modified their car to achieve the result, request that they get a roadworthiness certificate, under supervision by an official (so they can't unmodify it to comply)

but i think that having a wall will make any car "unroadworthy"... not sure about that.

I think we also need to add in something about the long hair

A slot port could create a venturi effect, and Mr.Bob could end up inside a sub box?

Any consideration to square subs ? Our local comps use a similar classing system (Eg. Class A = 1x 12", 2x 10"), but they class squares as "higher" than they measure. IE. A Square 12" is counted as a Round 15" as the surface area is approx. the same. Or is this meant to be covered by the "advertised cone area" bit ?

Also, I think Stock 1-2 should be upto 3 10"s.. but then you need to find a new name for the class .

good point Geoffrey, i might have to put a grill over my port
Blackice: we need to keep it simple, having 12's that count as 15's makes it hard for the average punter.

another option would be to have
stock 1-2-3 (1 15, 2 12's, 3 10's)
stock 2-4-6 (2 15's, 4 12's, 6 10's)

not sure if that's a good idea.

[ February 14, 2003, 10:28: Message edited by: Mr_Bob ]

Well they are no where near the same really.

Round:
8" = 51sq in
10" = 79sq in
12" = 114sq in
15" = 177sq in

Square:
8" = 64sq in
10" = 100sq in
12" = 144sq in
15" = 225sq in

So a round 12" has 30sq in less then a 12" square but a 15" round has 33sq in more cone then a 12" square. So its not even half way between, and going on world db-drag finals results there were lots of Shocker round subs louder then Kicker square subs.... but the fact also remains that square subs aren't just loud because they are square its because they are really good subs. [ /end hail Kicker rant ]

About the 3 10's in stock 1-2 class, there aren't many people who would be running this setup, also with only 1 amp it makes it difficult to load an amp down, for a street setup.

I think the rules are perfect, im 100% with these rules and they get my full support.

Marc if i was to hold a comp, would there be rights to pay to use these rules?

na, they are only loud cos they have more cone area... if shocker made square subs they would rape the competition /ok me goes back to building new port now...

2x 10"s versus 2x 12"s or 1x 15", not really a fair match up. 2x 10" versus 1x 12" is a lot fairer IMO. Just my take on it anyway.

As for the "harder to load amp with 3 10s" comment.. ermmm, its easier to load down using 3 10"s. Think past 4ohm SVC and 4ohm-mono stable amps.

Andu: Shush

I am planning on putting forward all the suggestions to Marc for revision 3 later today so If you have anything put it up now or forever hold your peace

Please don't encourage Blackice to hold his "piece".

did you fix that loophole that allows hatchbacks and sedans to use the rear seats for enclosure space?
i think this shoudl do it:

"All seats must be present and functional, enclosures in passenger areas are not permitted.

Let's say a showcar puts in 2x10's...

someone could protest that they should be in extreme as there car is illegally modified for street use due to for example "oversize wheels".

So how about:

"vehicles cabin cannot have modifications which are deemed as increasing the rigidity of the vehicle, apart from sound deadening".

Then put a limit on the thickness of sound deadening, such as 1 inch.

Also for other things in the rules as people have said above...

Stock:

3x10
2x12
1x15

Mod:

6x10
4x12
2x15

How about:

"All seats must be present and functional. Enclosures or other objects may not enter the passenger area of the vehicle."

Therefore stopping the port etc from going through... as a port may not technically be classified as the "enclosure".

i thought the port has always been considered part of the enclosure

But earlier wasn't someone talking about the ports going past the B pillar and not being counted as the enclosure?

hehe i am prolly wrong...

could of been me buts that in extreme and due to cabin design, it technically is a port but isn't

but yes a port attached to the box would form part of the enclosure

one thing we have forgotton is how the comps will be run

eg 2 lanes and the loudest out of those 2 progress ??

or loudest out of everyone wins ??

Loudest of Day can get an extra award

how bout power restrictions in the relative classes.
eg. Stock1-2, is split into 2 power groups,

kinda like a ~hp class, in gran turismo

~400wRMS and a unlimited wRMS class

i think it will make the whole aspect of CAAdB more compettiive,

like myself i dont think i can compete with people with 3x my power with 2 12's

more power = louder (2xpower= ~+3db)

[ February 14, 2003, 17:09: Message edited by: iced ]

nah splitting classes into power groups makes things too complicated
and also mans even less competitors per group and then groups end up getting merged anyway.

yer difficult more classes and plus there r cheater amps etc.

I think the Revision 2 rules have it just about covered. The majority of possibilities have been covered as far as installs go, The electrical supply side has been covered, Competitior conduct, staff/officials have their governing power and the majority of competitiors should be happy.

I think that there should maybe be Appendices which contains certain keyword clarification such as:

-passenger compartment modifications (eg back seats in or out, parcel shelf mods/holes)

-definition of "walls"

-"High output" alternators - maybe modified alternators or factory stock ones (or a clarification explaining the differences)?

I think the stock class layout is good because it limits the maximum number of drivers. If there is anything more than 4 woofers in the vehicle, the system/car is getting beyond what the aim of the "stock" class is all about. 5+ drivers, go into Modified class.

Why not make it compulsory for a fire extinguisher to be fitted? They are only about $50 and it promotes a safety factor in the sport. If people want to complain, then what's and extra $50 on top of what you've already spent???

Well I reckon that's about it, so hit me with your arguments!

Note: this is just "throwing" my thoughts and ideas out there, without much though process behind them, so don't hold that against me!

U have to keep in mind that the goal of the CAADB is to keep the rules simple and clear - people try to nitpick too much for each and every system.

BACK TO BASSICS!!!!!

If the majority of install possibilities is covered by the final rulebook, then leave 1 off class issues (that happen rarely) to the discression of the head judge.

all looks good so far but what is clasified as a wall

Have you seen the USAC rules? it says amplifier power ratings under 300w are assumed to be a 300w amp..

But I guess you could make an 8kw amp and call it a 300w amp.

Can you have a statement for Styock1-2 that says you can have "less" than 3x10, 2x12, 1x15? Just so anyone with say, 2x10's, 1x10 etc etc can compete.

Sqaures should be counted as per normal round ones...

Otherwise I like most of the rules.

But maybe allow vans in Modified class? Look at Kramy, he has a van, but would get raped in Hardcore class...

Oh and something I firmly believe in. Having a class for beginners. IE "mini stock" class? Just one class which obeys all Stock limitations, but only 1x10", 1x12", 3x8". As i'm aware, i would think that the most popular system has 1x12" or 1x10" in it. And they are not so much "competitors" but just want to see what they can do. This will get them in the comp scene, and hopefully, make them upgrade into one of the more competitive classes... If not call it "mini stock", then just have it in Stock Class, 1x12" + 1x10"...

having min stock is a good idea... but you'll also have to limit the power, which we all know is going to be very hard...

you might end up with the situation that a mofo with a dd9512 and a pair of amps go up against some newbie with a jaycar 12 and response 2x150... so i think you should stuff mini stock, and just leave it the way it is

As opposed to mini stock, why not give competitiors the option of 2 runs for $15 or so - not compete in a class as such with trophies - leav it up to the head judges discression?

Revision 3 is now release and most of your suggestions have been incorporated to an extent.

Please download Revision 3 and post your thoughts in the new thread.