i need to find an RTA in NSW.
i've called every man and his dog already (some of the dogs seemed interested until i refused to pat them)
ANYWAY.
if you've got any idea where i might find one, share the info and i'll be eternally grateful

lol you won't need an RTA to beat any of us SAians lol

not that it looks like i'll be competing

yeah but Henry Aw is going, and i'd like to beat him (somehow...:?)

can yuo do it for me?
anyone got a police issue spike strip?
if he replaces the tyres, i'll just whip him with it!
i think that's my only chance against a $50K system!

You and I both know Ben that it really isn't the $$$ value of the system that wins. It's knowledge, tuning ability, and well executed installation etc.

Three systems setup and tuned by our good friend Art Kran have all performed exceptionally well, including one with a total retail value of not much more than 3-4K at most.

Dion is a great example of a well executed installation and finely tuned system. He's driving Pyro nuts....

Incidentally... does Henry keep you awake at night like dion does to pyro? hahahhahaha

May as well repeat meself.. Bathurst LiveWire
They have rice lights too if you want them

....and it is always a comforting thought that fellow CAA members think about me while they are in bed!!!! :shock:

Maybe we could organise a day that a few of us colud go up and use the RTA.

Blackice, are they open on the weekends?

i'll be up for that!! :wink:

Great, and now i'm going to Adelaide who knows who will be my nemisis there. I hope Ceaser is going, or Henrda (SEJUK), I think my system is soudning better now with the tweeters on axis, it lifts and deepens the soundstage. Just a bit more tunning and we'll see how we go again. Still got 6 more comps till the National Finals.

i know that, that's why i've beaten Henry before!
Artkran didnt' install his system, i'm pretty sure Lifestyle did. (hence why they were wearing lifestyle shirts!)
nah, i don't let anythign get to me. i sleep like a baby.
if winning was the most important thing, then i mightbe concerned. But i compete for so many more reasons.
i'm noticing that small tweaks are finding whole new levels of enjoyment with my system. CAASQ is the driving force for those improvements.

Doran have an Audio Control.

Phil

I actually ended up using Jeurg's before the place burnt down.
Tony sold his audiocontrol ages ago anyway.

but thanks for the thought Phil!

perhpas another full day cruise out there to use the RTA? bbq while we're there, few laughs, friendly smiles blah blah who is keen?

out to where??

That’s what I was thinking, Audio Acoustics is gone and I’m guessing that includes the RTA.

I do not believe that there is another one located around the Sydney Metro area.

Ok, try Greham Humphries at Auto Audio in Miranda, yes! you do have to venture in to the shire.


Anyway give him a call its worth a shot.

Ph: (02) 9522 3344

Later
Marc

Hrmmm.. perhaps I should grab the RTA attachment for my TermLab and help poor ol' MrBob out
No I wont, its for .NET systems only *sigh*

this might sound stupid but what exactly does the RTA do? is it the thing that looks like a big EQ?


SSS_Hoon

i was talkign abtou a full day cruise to bathurst.. haha

bathurst?? start back at the "basics" basic!! NSWCAA isnt ready for a big cruise just yet... start small & once it picks back up then hit us with a bathurst meet...

Real Time Analiser.. ya know those graphic equalizers on home hifi's, or on the WinAmp window, where the lines bounce up and down in time to the music across a frequency range ? Its one of those.
MrBob wants to use it to find any freq's. that are "out", so he can EQ the system to make a flatter response curve.. its the SQ equivalent of SPL testing.

Hey Mr_BOB don't get it all wrong man. RTA doesn't going to help you much. infact it may ruin everything up!!!!

Rta only a tool used for determine the fequency response of your car audio system. Well a flat resopnse only Show one thing ---> the tuner have the ability to tune the car to sound what ever way he wanted it to sound. human ears is not machine so it will usually like the some thing "sound natural" not something "look natural" on the RTA.

I never use an RTA in my entire life. Instead, my ears are the most important tool for my tuning. Being an audiophile my self had teach me how "NATURAL" should sound like. Henry Lee, Henry Aw and me were audiophile our self. I didn't tune their system up. The corect word to be used here is "we tune our cars together". I have never work for Shop. We are just friends that share the same hobby. going to each other house to have a drink and train our ears with good home system is someting we normally do. we even test some car audio gear with a home system. The only way to beat Henry Aw isn't all about how much you can spend or tune the system up with RTA, but instead you will need pair of good ears and always trust them. In CAASQ, if you tune your car to absolute flat. chance are that you may lost your rank.

the F1 CD isn't that flat because there is no such thing as a flat recorded CD. If you tune your car to sound good with this CD or any CD. surely you will perform very poor in IASCA. the ret will not be flat So you will loose points in the RTA section plus all your CD will sound very funny with total lack of bottom end. you bass will be very hollow and so on.

If you have some time, you better have a listen to any system at Audio Connection in Lichardt. Listen to any MartinLogan speaker + The Gryphon CD player + Audio Research preamp+ Jadis monoblock amp then try to make your sound close to that as your can. If you can do it you will sure beat Henry Aw his system is nowhere close th that system as well.

We lost our RTA in that fire too...

Hmm I believe the RTA is a valuble tuning tool and it does have a valid application to the in-car audio setup. Remember, you are not judging your own system, what you think is NATURAL may be totally different to a judge. The RTA provides some sort of benchmark where you can contrast in a subjective environment.

Dare I say, is it the difference between 1st and 2nd?

Well it is partly true in some case, RTA is very essential tool to get thing startup and running properly. I mean RTA will save you a lot of tuneing time but at the end you will still fine tune it wwith your ears.

SQ isn't quite something a machine can understand. According to IASCA, when you listen to music it suppose to sound as similar as you are listen in a live concert. I am very sure no one will put an RTA to setup a concert hall. It is also very true that a system with flat RTA will precisely reproduce what is recoreded on the CD. But what if the CD isn't really properly recorded? In an Ideological world every CD should sound equally good, but we are living in the real world where most of the quality of CD are so far from ideal.

However, their seem to be a trend that most sound engineer with a little damaged ears will mix the alabum in a certain way. that's why we have to compromise with system tuneing also.

That is another reason why competition cars will only sound best with some CDs. Take CAASQ for example. it is very noticeable that the CD we all use as a judge medium were released from DEVINE MUSIC which were mixeddown by this certain group of sound engineer. lets assume that each engineer have their signature or so called personal preference. So anything being mixed down by this engineer will sound similar. take HW1,F1 and car of the century for example. the three cds strongly have their own distinct charactors that couldn't be found in the rest of the cds in the market. Now you are trying to say that a flat system going to make those CD sound best.

I will still keep my words. Train your ears to tune your system. Find some chance to sit in a quality live jazz concert. Then try to make your car sound close to that. RTA only make your life easier. RTA only help you to have a flat response to start with. The rest is up to your experience and ability. I remember marc have post musical Instrument VS fequency produced chart some where on this forum. Well if you little knowledge and skill about EQ tuning that use that chart to aids your tuneing after RTA. remember RTA isn't the ultimate SQ tool but infact RTA is the only tool for analyzing the acustical problem of your car. At the end, a tuner with RTA will achieve similar result the experienced tuner without RTA but the time required for tuneing is the main different.

As close to a live concert as possible ? Hear that MrBob ? You should get 20 of us to rock your car around whilst its being judged and we should all scream into the windows along with the music thats turned up way too loud

LOL!

I am suprised with so few RTA's around. I too used Jeurg's and found it a very useful piece of equipment.

I don't see anything wrong in useing one to get the best possible flat response. Just because you can achieve a flat responce does not mean you have to keep it like that.

At least you have a reference point to work from.

You then tune the system to your own taste.

An RTA is used to make tuning a lot quicker and easier because not all people can tune by their ears alone.

If you want to cut a piece of MDF and have the option of a hand saw or an electric saw which one would you choose :?:

they do Artkran!
i work with PA gear, and the guys run pink noise and tune he EQ to suit the venue! (i was peesent while the main stage at big day out was being RTA'd and EQ'ed but i was working on a different stage this year.
i have a reference system, and IMO it's better than the Martin Logan's!

tuning a flat response on an RTA doesn't yeild the best results, but it's a good tool to help smooth out your response.
i tuned my car so taht all frequencies were within +/-4db, and no frequency band was more than 2db from it's neighbour.
RTAing a car to be perfectly flat is almost impossible, because:
1. as as the volume varies, so does linearity,
2. reflections inside the car, and dispersion of speakers will vary the response according to your location in teh car.
3. it might require pushing your speakers very hard at particular frequencies, or cutting all surrounding frequencies severely, both of which can harm dynamics and headroom.

it's unnecessary and doesnt' sound too good.

i also found that my 5 parametric bands with +/-6db of level wasn't enough to get my response any tighter than +/- 3db anyway,
in the end, i made a comprimise to +/-4db to avoid pushing/cutting some areas too much.

anyway, i did manage to use jeurg's RTA before the fire,
and i think i'd like to invest in one for the future!

Another little point to remember is the 'why the RTA is not as good as the ear' argument is this:

Most human ears are most sensitive around the 1000hz-2000hz mark. Where as the RTA can give you a flat response curve, you ears tend to hear sound (if mapped out as a response curve graph) as a large hump (with lows and highs a tad quieter than the midrange). Therefore once tuned with an RTA, you then tailor the sound to your ears. This usually involves upping the mid-bass and treble a little.

The other main issue with using the RTA is the two dimension versus human three dimension listening but others have gone through that above.

When tuning cars I usually set the sound flat with an RTA then begin tuning it for the listeners tastes as everyone is different.

I tend to set the system up by ear and to what my perception of "sound quality" is. Then I use the RTA (as Mr_Bob suggested) to tighten it all up, and show up anything I may have missed and bring it all together.

I follow the natural response that exists, and definately do NOT tune to a flat response.

Incidentally, I have used the Termlab RTA now and whilst it does perform the job, give me an Audiocontrol or Alpine anyday.

:evil: once again i am telling you this. my system is an expensive system, but it not worth 50k. Do you understand now Mr bob. Please stop your bullcrap
winning me? you are always welcome and very possible. so sleep well not to worry so much. :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

huh???

x2

I think he thought this was another thread when in fact it is the same thread.

Hmmmm... for sure an RTA can't tell what is NATURAL, only a good pair of ears can tell what is real. RTA can't tell what is 1st hamonic, 2nd hamonic and most important the 3rd hamonic. Only we can tell. just like you speak to your friends everyday, what you hear is natural. An RTA is just an instrument telling you what is missing in a frequancy. And most speaker respond to all frequancy. a $100 pair will show the same result in an RTA to a $2000 pair speaker. But both of the sound frequancy respond is totally diffrent. That is the diffrent between Natural and not Natural.