ok here's the question .. there's a lot of expensive equipment out there and if on a budget .. where's the money best spent on ? in my opinion .. SPEAKERS ..

the phrase that best describes this post is "value for money" or "bang for buck"

better to save money on cables and upper end amps (xtant, zapco), upper end speaker wire, rca cables, high end head units and spend the money on SPEAKERS ..

i'm trying to make an informed decision on my next purchase .. lets say u had a budget .. wouldn't it be better to buy some top speakers

Boston Pros

and some decent power (Jaycar 2x150w)
sound damping for the doors
some good budget cables from JAYCAR
a quality Line Output Convertor (David Navone)
connected to the stock cd-player ..

the Bostons are very very good speakers which will need a fair bit of power and for good sq - power for low distortion and headroom and that .. can u tell the difference between an jaycar amp and an audison ? and would it really be worth the extra $$$ ?

here's the FHRX recommendation for a $5000 system ..

System Cost: $5000
Source Unit(s): Alpine CDA-9833 / Pioneer DEH-P7550MP / Clarion DXZ946MP
Front Speaker(s): Kicker RS6 / Boston Pro6.5 / Diamond M661 / Focal Polyglass 165V2 / Hertz HSK 1600 / Rainbow CS 265 Profi Vanadium Kick / Morel Dotech Mk II / Phoenix Gold X6.5 / Eton RS-160
Sub(s): JL Audio 12W3 / Image Dynamics IDQ12D4.V2 / Diamond M312 / Focal 33A / Hertx HX380 / Phoenix Gold X12D / Digital Designs 2512 / Vibe Space-12
Amplifier(s): 2 x ARC Audio 2100XXK / 2 x Audison SRx2S / Zapco 350 & Zapco 500M / Boston GT20 & Boston GT22 / Tru-Tech T-4.65 & Tru-Tech T-2.100 / Phoenix Gold R4.0:2 & Phoenix Gold R5.0:1
Cable: Stinger / Phoenix Gold / Audison
Deadening: G-Spot Serenity Max / Stinger Roadkill / Dynamat Pro

- for the sake of having a subless system .. lets take out the SUB
- use a cheaper amp eg. jaycar 2x150
- replace the cables with jaycar items
- keep the deadening
- keep the stock head unit and add add a navone LOC (davidnavone.com)

by using a cheaper amp and a LOC, keeping the GOOD speakers, that'll save a lot of money .. and will u really notice that much difference ?

i appreciate the fact that zapco, trutech, PG make great amps and that the wires above are top notch and that the head units are great too .. but if u could put a figure on the loss in SQ (if thats possible) what would u rate it at ? 5% ? 10% ?

even more basic: factory cd player, jaycar wiring, deadening, focal polyglass / boston pros / diamond audio m6 .. navone locs to boost preamp signal to 8v (better than most aftermarket head units), jaycar 2x150w amp .. wont this produce a GOOD sound only marginally worse than the fhrx system ?

thanks ! sorry if this post seems a bit rude - im not trying to be just looking for some advise on a good bang-for-buck system and im just trying to avoid spending money in the wrong areas ..

To some extend, I do agree with you on saving up by using less branded items and spending more on front speakers. However, for my case, by changing only stock nissan HU to an Alpine deck the difference is huge and noticeable, that's coming out of a pair phillips $49.99 speakers. LOL

There's always this brand name you are paying for but quality should somehow increase with the $ spend. (not always tho).

If you ask if I can tell the difference in my 12" MTX sub rated at 200wrms being pushed by a Jaycar 2 x 100wrms bridged to 234wrms @ 4ohm VS JL audio 250/1, 250wrms @ 4ohm then the answer is yes and alot of difference. Could it be the 16wrms difference? I doubt it.

Ultimately who doesn't like their system to be branded, but when it comes to budget purchasing and satisficing, I think going Jaycar is a good choice.

My 2 cents

btw, if you are looking at the boston pros, I was told the older models are rated at 300wrms with 3ohm load. So you might wanna give more power to the front. The new ones are rated @ 125wrms 3ohm

I agree that the splits are probably the most important aspect of a system, and if on a budget, it's probably best to invest the most money there, but you shouldnt neglect everything else. The difference if you change just one component (head unit, amp etc) in the system above will probably be subtle. But when you change a lot, all those subtle differences add up.

Swapping my old sony entry level cd tuner for my new mid/high end clarion made a noticeable difference to the SQ of my system, and i'm running response amps, response kevlar splits (soon to be upgraded) and an entry level cadence sub. With better splits, and a high end amp i'm sure the difference would have been even more apparent.

How does the Response kelvar splits sound? I am yet to use it on my other car.

sil21, can u put a finger on how the JL sounded different to the Jaycar amp ? the differences in power are there but i think the JL would be under-rated (1) and the THD would be lower because it is a monoblock (2) .. but i'm interested in finding out what sounded different to u .. and was it all all volumes or just when playing really loud ?

hmm.... how should I put it. I am no pro but the sub pushes harder with JL, and front speakers have not been changed so volume of HU should be played very similar to what I had with the jaycar amp. Anyway, it could be what you said, the JL is a monoblock.

With the Jaycar amp, no matter how high I turn up the gain, the punch cannot come near to what I get from the JL amp. Even my gf notice the differences between the two.

See my post here: http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/forums/vi...pic.php?t=40664

yeah just read that today.. Believe me or not, I bought this speaker for like 1 year already and it's still sitting in the garage... haha.. me just lazy...

With component matching, I believe a general rule of thumb is to spend fairly equally on all links in the system chain - hu/amp/loudspeaker. It means the chain is kept at a consistant standard and no product outshines the other.

Example1:- Brilliant amp, brilliant speakers, dud headunit.

An amp will only amplify what you give it - doesnt `add` anything to the sound. The headunit lets the side down here because the output signals a pile of crap

Example 2: Brilliant headunit, Brilliant amp, dud speakers.

Speakers can only sound so good and no amount of signal purity will ever change that. The mix here is wrong again.

Example 3: Brilliant headunit, brilliant speakers, dud amp.

Refer to example 2 but think about it in terms of amplification. However this particular scenario offers the most leeway. Plenty of setups compeletey defy old rules and use high end speakers with budget electronics with excellent results.

You can spend $500 on a system or $100,000, and you would hope the more expensive system would sound better. You cant then say its 5 % better etc as it just doesnt work like that. We are all chasing accurate(ish) reproduction of music and some ppl will be rapt in the $500 system, others will not be. The only thing we know for sure is that no system sounds like the real thing. I dont care how good a system is it wont sound exactly the same as having the performer there. Knowing this it comes down to how close are you happy to go to thqat elusive goal and live with the result.

If you get incredible accuracy and it cost you a bit then great. If you get great results for you, and spend less than others well thats great too.
The one thing that is often overlooked in these types of discussions is longevity and reliability. OK a cheaper amp may sound almost or as good as a more expensive amp but will it last as long ? I have seen countless High end systems that give multiple decades of great sound..Sure not cheap but fact is they sound good and over life of system they give a pretty good total cost of ownership figure.


I have a customer with a 87 porsche and he has spent literally nothing on it since new, except on tyres, brakes etc and service. What price is that worth and he has been driving a porsche the whole time. Sure he spent some $$s to get it but no one can say he wasted money or that a lesser car would be smarter etc. He bought quality and has enjoyed quality and thats something ppl who base purchase descisions on a bang for buck basis cant put a price on. My amps were hella expensive but they still work many years later, still sound OK and even if they fault will be repairable...is this a bad thing or am I a fool...did Iget bang for buck...who knows as thats a value judgement that doesnt have a $$ based bottomline.

Im happy and feel I have bang for buck, but as its my bucks and my perception of value then it doesnt matter what others think.
Sure someone suggests a system and you can build a system for less that sounds as good or almost as good, but is that a good decision based on total cost of owner ship, pleasure received over the time the system is used etc....I cant say.

I can say if you purchase based on price or specs alone then often you get what you pay for but if you purchase based on what is the right product to do what you require then the purchase price is soon forgotten but the enjoyment is there for a long time.

yeah speakers are a great place to look for overall results in a system, and should be a major decider of what you purhase overall, but no one can say whats better bang for buck, as it depends on many factors that cant be measured and vary from person to person.
peace Cyberpunky

well said :thumb:

- Stooge007 out

i don't know .. such old porsches/mercedes/bmw are very unreliable cars .. you're not buying quality at all - well u r .. but those old german exotic cars ughh ..

anyway .. my question is quite specific although i guess i didn't word it that way .. with $x how can u get the best SQ .. now u can spend 70% of amps or 20% on wires and 10% on speakers .. but we're trying to get value for money here -

hey does anyone have links to some $1000 SQ comps or similar ?

I think it varies depending on your budget. There is a point where spending x ammount more on speakers (or any component for that matter) doesnt necessarily equate to x ammount more sound quality.

Just as a rough guide, if the budget is tight (say $1000), probably 50% would be a good balance. $500 on splits and sub, $250 on a source unit, $200 on an amp, and $50 on cabling.

With $2000 the budget is a bit more relaxed, so maybe 40% would be the go for splits and subs, with a bit more going towards a better source unit, more amplifiers offering more power and so on. With $5000, you might only spend 35% on speakers and with $10,000 you might only spend 30%.

Unless you're working with an unlimited budget, there will always be compromises. You just have to balance it out so with the budget given, you make the compromises where they'll least affect the overall performance of the system.

I dont buy into percentages. Buy the best speakers you can afford and you love the sound of. Look at using 2nd hand amps, as amps have no moving parts and so if working when you get them tend to keep on working just fine, and you can get great amps cheap .

Look at the best quality HU you can afford, that has only features you need as a lot of features sound cool but in reality are rarely used by most ppl. Also consider 2nd hand.

cablinmg etc isnt that important but quality fittings are. Use cheap power and spkr cable but only use respected brands for fuse holders, batt terminals and distro blocks etc. This is a safety issue and so bargains should be avoided IMO

Take your time, as budgets and equipment availablity vary with time. You may find the spkrs or HU you want discounted at a sale. If you take an extra month to save for better gear its time well spent.

Anyway ppl love to quote budget percentages and specs etc and in real world they often mean nothing. My advice is dont think in budget terms but more in terms of what you need to do job. You buy for a price and you get what you pay for, but if you buy what you need, you get what you need.
peace
Cyberpunky

looking at my stuff i have... i've got more chance of buying some good splits and going SQ rather than getting mega amps and goin SPL dont i??

I think that is some of the best advice Bruce has ever posted

yeah well said

lmao I just thinkyou dont read enough of my posts

Serioulsy thou I give that advice to a lot of ppl as I sincerly believe its true, and think that you can get great results with a limited budget. It just means you have to take your time and buy smart.
peace
Cyberpunky

^^^^^^
you rock Cyberpunky
with sayings like that
you tought me alot about equipment that i didn't know or even realise

no wonder for the past 6 years i have respected you with upmost when it came to car audio knowlage(sp)

and if i ever ran into problems (which is hardly ever) you have always corrected me on it

there is really no more i can say about you dude
your a one of 1,044,892,927,859,937,867,238,900 in this industry
and i strive to be like you
well maybe hotter
hahaa