Hey all

Ok...my system now consists of
Ecilpse 8454
MB Quart RAA4250
I have MB Quart DSD216 but i'm getting the QSD 216
I'll be picking the IDMAX12 for the sub but I'm stuck on the amp for this.
Money is not really an issue .. if it the one I want i'll get it...
I'm thinking of sticking with MB Quart QAA1000 as its the same brand but again i'm not sure so what do you think?

Thanks Guys

Tru Technology Hammer H-1.
$2k but a marriage made in heaven.

For a bit less (street price $1300-ish) a JL 1000/1 would make a fine substitute.

Based on things friends and I have used, these are top choices.

That's gonna be a very nice system.

What are really looking to spend? Obviously around the $2500 range so I think your choice will be huge.

Myself I would look at the lower end Arc and Tru mono blocks but I'm haven't got deep pockets :? . But with that kinda bugdet you're going to have one very nice sounding system if its all installed well.

I dont really have a "budget" as such.

I was expecting between $1500 and $2500 and it will all be professionally installed

LOL @ Critter - why only a Hammer?
Dude if you don't have a budget, get the Tru Tech SH-1 Sledgehammer (yes I'm not joking)


Details here:
http://www.trutechnology.com/hammer_series.htm

how much different is the qaa1000 compared to a RF Power T10001bd??

Unlike the power series RF it seems like the mbq use a impedence switch on the amps to change the rail voltage and maximise power to the load. I miss this option that use to be used in the early soundstream products like the ref 500. From a design standpoint this is a lot simpler to design and reduce noise compared to the pg xenon or jlaudio slash series.

i bet the mbq product is extremely good since it seems its a RF designed and made. Hopefully the mbq amp offers the same awesome 3year warrantee that the rf gear offer.

the jlaudio 1000/1 is also nicely made however i have not fired mine up so i can not tell you if its a great amp or just jl marketing hype. I just hope the damn thing works ....well at least its nice to look at

if you have the money why not get something you just dont see everyday. Being different is fun but sometimes that costs a bit more money per watt.

I have a U-Dimension amp running Dyn 240GT and I have to say U-Dimension amp is very very clean amp and shouldn't cost you more than $1000 if you look around

I've also auditioned soundstream tarantula running the same Dyn, somehow I still like U-Dimension...the tarantula seems to be a bit harsh (I think)...and note tarantula worth $$$

good luck...

The SH-1 is discontinued.

Really? Argh well it's not like I ever had the money to be able to buy it!
There was one for sale on here a little while ago mind you. I'm sure the fact that it is no longer availible would push up the price!

Why get another MBQ when there are tons of better speakers available, they are just too bright for my liking. Eg, OZ, CDT, Dynaudio, Focal, etc....

For amp, you can go for JL or Tru Hammer.

Yup, the Sledge Hammer was discotinued a few months back. There are 2 of these in Australia to my knowledge.

As far as an amp for the IDMAX, the Hammer is a good choice, so is the Zapco 1100.1 - ask FHRX what he thinks of the IDMAX Zapco combo.

Sounds like you've got a pretty good SQ system there, I'd advise you to pick a class A/B amp for your sub rather than a class D. And yes, both the Hammer and Zapco are class A/B.

Bye,
Mo

yup, second to that...Used A/B amp for maximise SQ. No more class D for me !

Smartalec question : If Class A/B is so much better than Class D for sub SQ, why do Zapco use A/B on their cheaper range and D on their expensive range :wink:

Perhaps the Zapco Class D offer more power and flexibility.

DLS work opposite way. Thier Ultimate series A6 used a/b class on thier expensive range and class d on thier cheaper range !

yeah cause you can hear the Class D THD in subs bahahhaha please :roll:

Oh, and dont forget the switching noise on a non-fullrange class D, STIK, you know, the one at 2kHz or so, right smack bang in the middle of the sub bass spectrum and all :hehe:

Now if someone would kindly bring up damping factor being better on class A/B... :wink:

YOUR liking. Key word(s).

oh and just for blackrazor, blahblah blah class a/b damping factor, d sucks in damping factor, thd whatever. now hit it buddy :wink:

Muahahaha! You said DAMPING FACTOR!!!

<pulls up the soapbox>

Damping Factor : Its often quoted that because Class D amps have damping factors normally in the 100-500 range, whereas good Class A/B amps sometimes have a damping factor of 1000-2000. This is often used to say that class A/B amps have audibly better cone control. People make this deduction because "2000" is a bigger number than "200", and as we all know, bigger numbers are phat, if you have an amp that has a bigger number associated with it its guaranteed you have a larger penis than the average man, and are 3.5x as likely to get sex on a nightly basis...

However, sexual benefits aside, lets take a wee nosey at the science behind damping factor shall we?

Heres a link for you to read. Its extensive, and rather scientific, so if logical rational discussion is not your forte, skip to the abridged version below, aka 'a picture'
http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=GE1tJy...40world.std.com

Basically, he shows the effect the damping factor of an amp has on things. Heres a simple picture screenshot of one of the most concise parts :


Note how beyond a certain point, increased damping factor has very little extra effect... in fact, the response time of a sub, has less than 1000th of a second of difference between an amp with a damping factor of '50', and an amp with a damping factor of '50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000'

So if anyone would kindly explain to me how they can hear the less than one ten thousandth of a second of difference in response time between your usual class D damping factor of 200, and a rather special class A/B damping factor of 2000, i would be greatly appreciative. Amused, but appreciative

<hands the soapbox to anyone game enough to take it>

blah blah blah, current draw, blah blah blah

- Stooge007 out

Current Draw = Satan

There you go, nicely summed up

>takes soapbox from blackrazor<

"I want to urge all you people to get out more"

>hands box on<


(Seriously - keep up the good work. Doesn't hurt for people to at least begin to have some appreciation of the science behind the Doof Doof)

i would think that the effective Qtc change, coupled with the increased damping factor could still make an audible difference, under a factor of 50.
remember those calcs were done at 8ohm, and the author himself says that the DC resistance of the coil makes a difference to it.
infact, it sounded to me as though the effective damping factor would increase exponentially as the impedance drops, rather than linearly as i thought.

since most of us run our sub amps at 4ohm or below, we may need "adjust" that graph to suit our application.
if you're running our system at 1 ohm, then the Rs will stay the same, but as the impedance drops, the relative Qec will increase, giving a larger Qtc and larger decay also, given that the damping factor stays constant.

Agreed... but in that case, you're best bet is to find an amp with a high output at a high impedance, rather than an amp with high damping factor

Personally, i think that 100 would be as low as you'd really want to get as far as damping factors go, but most amps worth their salt will have more than that anyway

I would suggest the DLS A6 too...

Very good controll - even at 1 Ohm, but keep your power-supply in mind!

so... you're off your soapbox yet? cause you're looking mighty silly up there!

huh? what would an amp with 10KWRMS @ 8ohm do for me, when my sub gets wired at 1ohm?
wiring my sub at 4ohms increases the inductance, which to my knowledge causes the sub to take longer to react to a change in polarity.... which shoudl affect it's attack.


right....so you're saying that damping factor means nothing, so long as it's sufficient...
that's like saying all cars performs the same, so long as they have at least 300kw...
Eq PHd2's are often run in situations where they have a damping factor under 20... so i think this is a real world situation.
alot of amps have a DF over 200, and for the greater part the differences are small beyond that IMO, but there ARE amps that have a DF under 100 at rated impedances.

judging by your inability to hear the difference between:
a DF of 50 and 200,
the difference between lamp cord and audioquest cables,
amplifiers in general

without meaning to be rude, when was the last time you had your hearing checked?

cause i personally don't listen to equations and numbers, even though i respect that they can sometimes be used to explain a situation.

• Damping factor : I never said you cant hear the difference between a damping factor of 50 and 200 on music, i said you cant hear it on 200 and 2000 damping factors, into normal subs

• Cables : Like i've said before, all you wonder-eared guys who beleive you can pick up the effects of the space martians and magic in flash cables, theres $10,000 just waiting for you over in the US if you can pass a blind test using a fence wire cable and you choice of audiophile cables (not counting Zobel network units)... so instead of telling me i'm wrong because your ears are some sort of super-human aural radar, go pick up your free $10k Actions > Words.

• Amps : Same situation. All well built amps, on unclipped program, at the same output wattage, and resonably similar frequency response, WILL sound the same... what they do once they clip is another matter, but the easy solution to that is to buy an amp with MORE POWER, not one with better clip handling or some magic resistors or some such Again, theres ten easy grand over in the US, since you're so confident you can pick the diff in amps, go get it! crape me, if i was so confident in something i'd be jumping at the opportunity, even minus the $3k airfares that would still be like AU$13k...

I cant hear any of these things you claim to hear. Neither can Richard Clarke, David Navone, or the head engineers at Polk Audio, Boston Acoustics, and many other companies who have taken any of the tests or looked at this matter in a subjective manner...

My challenge to all those who come out with the lame ass "You cant hear it so your hearing = teh sux"... PROVE that it exists! It cant be that hard if its as easy to hear as you say... come out with one eeny, weeny bit of solid hard proof, and as stated, i'll eat my hat... i'm not holding my breath, because all the 'audiophile' crew can ever come out with is pseudoscience, half-truths and veiled insults :|

P.S... your comments about the cars and kilowatts are misleading... if you were going to make an analogy, then if going from 50kw to 200kw made 2x the speed difference, but going from 200kw to 2000kw only made 0.001x the speed difference, then of course i am going to say you want 200kw but any more is a waste of time...

How is it different to YOUR pseudoscience, half-truths and veiled insults?

back when i was in primary school, and in every other scientific experiment, i was taught that in an experiment, you make a change and observe the results.

well...
i changed an amplifier, i heard a difference.
i changed a cable, i heard a difference.
I've done it blind, i've done the tests on my own, either way, i get the same result....

that's science!

anyone can gear a test to give the results they want. lets look at your favourite example, richard clark.
he's managed to setup a test to make it difficult to tell the difference between cables and amplifiers.

this can be done with any test, as i showed with the vespa Vs F1 analogy.

infact i did hear a story that the $10K was won, and he paid up, but the results were kept under wraps, if i can find a reference to this i'll post it for you.

Please explain what part of the test is designed to prevent you hearing a differences in amp design? If you go thru and look at the things he does, he explains everything as he goes as removing a source of difference that has nothing to do with the amp design... its simple scientific practise, isolate what you are going to test so that other variables dont skew the result...

He levels the volumes so that its not volume difference causing the detection, he disables the internal EQ so you are listening to the amp and not the EQ... what part of anytthing he does is wrong?

Honestly, go look through the process, and come back and tell me what he does wrong, i'd be really interested

Show me anywhere on here where i've used pseudoscience or half truths. Seriously, go find me one. Veiled insults, yeh, sometimes, only when people have a go at me first tho

shuddup both you


how about this.

get an amp that is well built (reliable) looks pretty and put's out the power you want.

there is the ideal amp!

enough whinging about if amp's sound different, if you think they do well then good if you dont just as good

precisely!
most intelligent post in this whole thread!

That's funny cause I was taught to measure the results using calibrated measuring devices....

that's engineering

(and engineering > science )

I'm down with that... but, if they can say that amps have a 'sound' to them when people ask, i should equally be allowed to show they don't, agreed?

lol, perhaps the next thread should be:

"Verbal Wankery - And it's importance in the Online Forum Chain"

(Whatever happened with that deffinitive cables test by the way?)

Wel, I'm not the only one who likes A/B amps over class D's for a sq bass - I think it was Fred Lynch who also noticed an improvement in his car once he switched from Class D's to A/B's... take a wild guess what subs he has/had?

I'll find that thread later...

Dan, the Zapco 9.0 and "The 4KW" are Class D amps as they are pure SPL amps.

Bye,
Mo

sorry double post

I notice an improvement in SQ too when I used a class AB amp (8ohms, 300wrms) when comparing to my xtant x1001.