Guys, i'm not sure if there is any discussions about this subject before. I'm planning to get a set of Horn. However as I'm not really familiar with horns, i need your opinion. I'm not sure about the prices for those horns but I'm planning to spend around AUD1500. I heard that ID CD2Comp is around that price. I'm not so sure about the USD horn. I think it was USD BC300.

Which horn has the best staging and imaging?

Thanks alot guys...

I've seen those USD Waveguides on ebay for $120 and I THINK that no one wanted them...and the price was $120

The ID HLCD-2 Comps retail in oz for $2000 (that's the price on the FHRX price list). I don't know whether there would be many people out there that have owned one of those horns let alone heard them back to back!!!
Marc owns the Veritas and is in the process of installing and tuning at the mo - having said that he swears by them.
I own the ID HLCD-2 Comps but as yet am having enough trouble trying to fit them in the car I havn't gotten close to tuning etc.

From what I remember of when I was looking around the veritas etc (not sure if this was the case because of the particular driver that was attached) were alot more than your budget of $1500. But Marc will be able to tell you how much he picked his up for.

From memory the HLCD-2 Comps don't come in the "mini-horn" package so I hope you have alot of room!!! Good luck

CD2COMP do come in mini horn form

Yeah? Well that is good news for everyone other than me who bought the big (and they are enormous) ones!!!

They are listed on the Fhrx's ID RRP list.

Reply to >WAYCON<
I used to have the USD BC300 in my car. I was having alot of problem to get the imaging and staging right. I was about to give up with this horn then I decided to install a set of tweeter (Diva Swan tweeter if you ever heard of it) just to help the imaging and staging. It took me 3 days and finally I have the imaging and staging that i want. Maybe you want to try this trick.

I've spoken to Kit (www.e-kittan.com) if you know him. He has a set of CD2 Comp HLCD in his car. He won the encouragement throphy last year in one the the melbourne show. He said that the CD2 Comp has the best body over the other horns. So I might get myself a set of HLCD2 Comp MH (Mini Horn) as I had huge problem when i'm installing the USD Horn...

USD Audio release their new set of horn. The driver using the berylium material (I have no idea what is that... maybe they discover a new material while they were travelling to MARS... LOL ) The retail is USD6995... The driver is around 8 pounds... close to 3-4kg... i am wondering how is the USD6995 worth of horn sounds like...

I assume they sound very very nice.
Berylium is an aerospace alloy, it is a copper color (I believe it is copper based too)
and it is also used in the manufacture of golf equipment. (Ping golf clubs pioneered the use of Berylium outside the aerospace industry)

Dang!!!, but I'm wondering what makes it USD6995... hahahaha...

beryllium is what focal use for the tweeter in their high end utopia Be range

the usd beryllium super A's are near on $7k in price and there 14lb in weight.

i have usd d2 horns which arn't a diagphram, but i've just put them back into my car from a set of 2" titaniums cause they sound better! go figure
there are actually only 3 compression driver manufacurers in the world, so it all comes down to flare design and application in the car
some of usd and ID both use cts drivers on there lower models, veritas only have diagphram but the ones that cost $1500 i can buy the motors for $100 from an american company called parts express but not the alluminium horns

LOL, it is probably the packaging it comes in Henry!
Cheers for the advice on raising the sound stage. As yet I am doing work just trying to fit the units, rather than fiddling with them and tuning etc...I am sure it will be a long process. But your thoughts on the low stage height have mirrored other comments I have heard.
The particular guy that I bought my ID's off was a competitor in the US and he swore by the ID's over all the other horns he had used. He was only selling them as he was getting out of the scene etc. They have a soft compound throat rather than a metal or alloy which means that you don't necessarily have to deaden them. That said Marc pointed out that he didn't notice the difference between his undeadened and deadened Veritas so the necessity behind doing so is questionable.

Mini-horns are deffinately the way to go dude!!!! I can't stress that enough. I own a 1986 Ford Fairmont which has one of the widest driver and passenger areas under the dash I have seen. The horns are about 2" wider!!! The only reason i didn't get the mini's was because the other competitor gave me a great deal but now that I come to the installation with all the money that I have and will spend on fitting these big bastards in I don't know if I will have ended up saving much!

The USD Waveguides have long been the in-car reference speakers at U.S. magazine Car Audio & Electronics and I note they have recently upgraded to the latest model.

It is also worth noting that the "car" in question is Eric Holdaway's Ford F-350 truck! It is good to see that his fuel bill gets him at least the benefit of running horns....

I have no noubt at all that horns are ultimately the way to go for imaging in cars, although the installation issues are typically MAJOR.

The I.D. CD2 Comp's are terrific things, installed properly, and if you can find a way, I would go with them, especially at the price compared with the alternatives.
They would be my personal choice for putting a high-end "go for it" system together if I ever have a car that I could fit them into......

As a "by the by", Yamaha have been using berylium-deposited domes in home and pro audio since 1980, so there is nothing new under the sun....

seems that the Image Dynamics CD2 Comp is the way to go... i've heard lots of good review about the CD2... is there any differences between the mini horn and normal size horn in terms of the imaging, staging and sound quality? As I used to have the USD horn, i found out that the USD is too bright and hush... is that the characteristics of all horns or only certain brand? Whatabout the CD2 Comp?

Its actually nothing new:) Berylium diaphram has been around for many years in Pro Sound.

Sounds to me they are using the Pioneer TAD drivers. $6995 sounds a bit too high for just changing magnet labels?

Pioneer has been using this material for well over 10 years from what I personally know.

The cool thing would be to use Neo magnet instead of bulky cobalt magnet.


http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/prod...76_4213,00.html

horns will always sound like horns they have there own signature sound like all different apeaker sets.

harshness is a common trait of poorly setup horns/ or bad design especially with the really cheap ones and isn't the case with usd's, they know what there doing when it comes to horn design' there one of the pioneers of hlcd's in cars.

buy nature they need plenty of eq so correct install is a must, put them in a badly and they will need even more eq! and will sound bad, all diaghram horns will begin to roll off fast above 15-16k thats why extra tweeters are used with them, it is also one reason why some are sooo expensive' these ones have been so well designed and play all the way to 20 and beyond and dont suffer from phasing issues that can cause cheaper models to sound bad.
compisite(piezo) ones play up to 20k but tend to be very midrangy and nasty and need lots of setup to sound presentable but there loud and abnoxious and love fast electronic music which is perfect for getting attention there not nessacarily cheap either with a good set at around $700 as apossed to 1200-1500 for a entry level diagphram set.
piezos are virtually indesructable with any amount of power and the diagphram ones are replacable(they burn out with too much power).

but buy coicidence the best set i've heard was a ID pair firing up at the windscreen through the demister vents, they were so smooth it was scary and they were ball tearingly loud if they wanted to be and never changed there sound.
you also must have a car that is suited to them and has a symetrical dashboard and can extend the horn mouth

I assume you mean Lucas's car Waz?

It is the most amazing thing I have heard too!

I can't wait to get my horns back in the car and the rest of the system too!

There might be a few surprises involved too!

hi bro...u have the best tweeter in the world and u are still not happy with them....

oh my lord....

Reply to noidea:
I'm happy with them but then i'm still very curious about horn... but if I install the horn that means i have sacrifice the R29 tweeter and change to the D6000 tweeter...

seems that lots of things need to be done to make the horn sounds good... but installing the horn firing up to the windscreen through the dimister vents are a good idea... that way makes a better staging and imaging... if i do it that way, do i still need to have a pair of ambient tweeter???

You can fit horns in virtually any car, it depends how committed you are.

I put USD horns in VL Walkinshaws, Pulsars etc.

I've put Veritas in E36 BMWs, MY00 WRXs etc

I have put ID CD2s into GT4 Celicas, atm I'm putting some in my 1982 Starion.

The way the horn couples to the dash is as important as the horn itself, remember this in an SQ install.

Phil

Reply to DD Phil:
I own a 2004 Honda Accord (not the euro version) and i found it hard to install and i couldn't fit the driver properly inside the dashboard... i took out all the covers (just like what Marc did to his BMW) and there is no enough space to fit the driver... is there any other way to install the horn... can you tell me more about installing horn (seems that you have lots of experience in horn)...

Can you invert the horn so that the motor hangs down?

Phil

has anyone tried mounting the horn so that the horn throat exists through where the windscreen demister vents are?
(making a bigger hole to suit the horn throat)
not sure how the reflections off the windscreen would affect the output, but it'd have great height, depth and width

Hem Si Bapak Bisa Aja. Makin Serem Ne Main nya. Huahahaha

???I tried to read it backwards and it still didn't make sense???

Reply to DD Phil:
I tried that and I couldn't move my leg freely...

Reply to >WAYCON<:
LOL... its Indonesia Language... BTW, I've been trying to keep up with you in the KILL KENNY arcade game BUT I always get killed... LOL

Reply to [JOGER]:
Biasa aja lah om... gila loe pake bahasa indo di forum... hahahaha...

Go For The Veritas 1.5 Inch Throat And Cheapest Driver They Will Sell You If You Have To Buy A Driver At All. Change It For A Tad Or Radian.

The radian driver is damn expensive yeah??? it cost thousand of dollars... issit true??? do you know if there is any official website for the Radian driver??? Can you tell me which model of Veritas horn you are talking about???

As luck would have it the Australian Radian distributer is just 2 km from my house. Dear ? Properly used will last for everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.Go for 845 model 1.5inch opening. Veritas only had one horn but two openings 1" and 1.5 ".

This is whey l bought the BMW its a german car and the blower is in the middle so there is enough space under the dash for both left and right and big kickpanels fo the midbass. Understand my car.

radian make cheap models as well, infact there basic model is the same one that every other brand uses that can be bought for $30US from parts express

theres actually like only 3 compression driver manufactures in the world, they all just put there own name on them! but when it cum's to the top end stuff the major brand companies will get them custom made to there specs, so the can charge huge money for them also some of these expensive ones have been around in proffesional PA for years before they were used in car's.

Correct ! The best i have ever hear are 40 years old Altec Lansing


The pioneer TAD are exceptional but $25,000 for a pair.

At the end of the day, you can't complain with any of the above in regards to imaging as opposed to 2 or 3 way component setups?
Providing you link up the horns to a solid midbass driver, either an 8" or 9", you should "hit the spot" with imaging.
True to a point?

When l first started using horns they were the USD . No other horn was available. They were hard to tune. I didn't understand them. l approached Autosound 2000 as they had sold a few of them and was told that they would reinbuse me with the NEW scientifically developed Veritas. They told me to run over the USD AND SMASH them and not to sell them. The Veritas has a few horn design theorys modelled into them. They also developed a bigger entry which would allow a bigger driver to be added so as to lower the cross over point VERY IMPORTANT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN USING HORNS. And thats what l have 4 inch diagrams ! The bigger the driver the better as long as the phase plug is designed properly so as to extend beyond 20,000 hz. Yes you can use better diagrams berylium even diamond but not for the faint hearted.
Image. D has a similar design BUT i would not use the mini as the cross over point is to high due to the lack of loading on the driver.

I use the Image dynamics minihorns and they play well down to about 1khz. not much below this point though.

Im looking into upgrading them though to some bigger horns that play down to 600hz or so.

Correct ! The mouth of the horn has to be big so as to effectively couple to the driver. BUT even then the area of the commercially available CAR HORNS will only dictate a crossover around 600 hz , they are relatively small compared to studio or PA HORNS . The only effective way of crossing over lower is to use a very LARGE driver that can handle more power. :thumb:

Yes, that has been done about 10 or 12 years ago but you would need to re-shape your entire dash. Since typical dash is not symetrical.

And as for depth and height? not always. One of the best systems I've heard was in 1991,1993 and 1996. It was Speakerworks Grand national, Harry Kumura's Acura Legend, Todd Matsubara's Ford thunderbird SC, Earl Wills Chevy Impala, Femi Agoke (Image Dynamics) Pontiac Grand Prix. Which BTW, had the Pioneer TAD drivers with custom flare and was positioned above the steering wheel.

Last but not least, Eric Stevens (Image Dynamics founder) Buick Sabre.

From top of my head, that should be it I think:)

Nah you forgot the best 2ND BEST MARK ELDERIDGE.
and the KING OF ALLLLLLLLLL TIMEEEEEEEE
RICHARD CLARKE ( TOTALLY REVAMPED SPEAKER WORKS CAR BUICK ).
IS IT A COINCIDENCE that the best cars of all time had horns ????????
I DON'T THINK SO

Dunno if this is hijacking the thread or not, but it is the horn thread...
ID Horns... To match a CD2COMP Horn & Compression Driver to the IDV.3 8" subwoofer, what crossover would you use? Would it be better to run the drivers active? How much power WOULD you give such drivers?

And I hear that horns may suffer from resonance... what can be done to overcome this?

30-50wrms to the horns.
150-250wrms to the 8inchers

Definitely best to run it active

Cool cool. Maz, you have the mini horns in your car...
How much room do you have left under the dash? And what side does the compression driver sit on in the drivers section and front passenger section?