One other question. Currently I have a 12" IDMAX subwoofer installed in my car. I heard a lot of positive feedback about RE Audio. I am not planning to replace the IDMAX. I am just wondering about the RE Audio subwoofers. Are they any good??? If they are, do you think it is worth enough to replace the IDMAX???

What do you guys think about the amplifier and speaker compare to any other brand which is around the same price range?

Thanks alot for your help.

from what i've heard, there isn't that much between them provided that they are both given enough power.

agreed, although im led to beleive that the ID max will work better with less power due to its higher sensitivity rating.

.... and if you have plenty of power, the XXX will eat the IDMAX alive, especially for SQ at extreme excursion

i agree with what's been said, the IDMAX and XXX are "on par" for sound, but different people will prefer a different sound.
the XXX however, will remain undistorted at higher volumes, especially with low notes.

what type of sound does the RE make, is it a softer type of bass. ive got an ID max and it sounds a fraction dry (which i like) but it has a certain hard thud to it on bass notes. just wondering whether the RE has this same characteristic or not? cheers.

well it is not really a SQ sub if it's loud now is it?? 6.5in mid's really are not going to keep up with a sub doing 140db.. and if they did they probly wouldent sound the best...

im still tryng to work out why everyone wants loud SQ subs, why do u want a bass heavy system.

here you go might be the ideal place to talk about it
http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/forums/fo...isplay.php?f=22

but low notes are quickly distorted at moderate levels. (as more excursion is required for lower frequencies)
i'm not talking about SPL, i'm talking about loud music.
i know when i hear a track that sounds great, i like to turn it up, turn the bass up a bit (or alot ) because i want more of that great sound. and this is when the XXX really shines. if you're not going to feed more than 200WRMS into the woofer, then get an IDQ and spend the money elsewhere.

IMO the XXX isn't as dry as the IDMAX, but it hits just as tight, and has more weight.

Hey Bobby

In my case i like the sound to be FULL.

I try to make my system sounding as if i was in the studio while the band was playing. Or at a live concert.
Or trying to recreate the sound of a drummer playing in my car.

The feeling that the drums are in my car and im playing them.

As a drummer i know the impact a drum kit can give and i want that same impact in my car. And i don't get it with out the sub.

My sub plays the low notes very well and its when i disconnect the sub that you notice the sound is not as FULL even with the 9" drivers in the doors.

In fact people who have heard my system are amazed at the bass it produces with out the sub.

But when the sub is connected they are blown away.

It might be bass heavy but its also in proportion the mid-bass, mids and highs. Its the way i like it.

I don't think its just a matter of having a loud SQ sub but its all about recreating the sound as the maker intended.
The problem there is the maker is the only one that knows what his music should sound like.
If i can hear or feel a bass note with the sub on and don't hear or feel it with the sub off then thats when i know the sub is doing its job in recreating what the recording should sound like.

the PG Ti Elite is another incredible sub
John, on the Chesky CD there's a drum track which sounds great in my car.
can we meetup some time and compare systems?
you coming to the Fhrx BBQ?

i know where you are comming from E320, but playing drums and listing to drums are a completely different thing, of course you are going to feal the effects when u are playing but when your out the front of the stage watching it's completely different.
(that as most the drum's freq come through the midbass speakers anyway)

anyway as i said, if it's bass heavy, you like the sub pumping.. at aint a SQ system.. maybe when u change all the settings to go in a SQ comp it is.

my boston has around 5mm xmax but still seems to play low low freq quite fine... might not play them at 140db but plenty loud enough for a SQ setup (you know casue this is a SQ forum - but i guess i could just put it in general dicussion )

yeah, but can it still reproduce 25Hz frequencies loud enough to overcome road noise at a moderate listening volume?
without distorting?

Bobby even if i do compete in SQ comp i won't be changing my settings because i like the system the way it is.

Whether or not its right or wrong for a judge is up to them but to me my system is sounding right for me the way i like it to sound.

Please don't get me wrong though my system dosn't pound. Its not a doof doof sound.
It's a full sound. Not a pounding sound. If you know what i mean.

Ben i also have that CD and yes it does sound very good.
The drum track on the Autosound 2000 cd102 is also very good.

I'm trying my best to get to the BBQ but this is the worst time of year for me. If i don't get there maybe we could meet up at Martys after xmas. Hopefully you haven't pulled your car apart by then.

Have you tried the Sheffield Lab Drum & Track Disc? I used to play drums too and reckon there are some very well recorded drum tracks in this CD.

road noise in your mirage or on the eunos haha

the Seat well i would have to wall it to get 25hz without distortion to get over the zorst
but still i think it would handle it, i never have played a 25hz tone while driving to know..

Another CD thats been on the back of my mine to get.
Thanks for reminding me.

Its sure one of the best from Sheffield Lab " Drum & Track Disc" This very disc will tell you about the quality of bass your loudspeaker can put up with. How low your woofer go? With how much power? Fast enough? Or overhang? No tonal coloration to the drum's transients at all. When listening to this disc in my home or car, it really make me feel like I am the drummer. The drum, snare and the kick drum is incredibly precision. The Kick drum doesn't come in front of you. It comes just under your knee. The snare just above your chin. Amazing recording.

It is worth remembering that sensitivity ratings on subs are VERY misleading, which is why so many manufacturers make a point of reminding people of this.

My previous sub was an IDQ15 in 44 litres. "By the numbers" it is quite a bit more sensitive than the XXX12 in 24 litres.
However, when I installed the XXX12, with the sub amp at exactly the same gain setting for reference, I had to turn the gain DOWN......which had something to do with the extra bottom octave output of the XXX.

No mistake, the IDMAX is a very fine sub, top shelf no risk, but the XXX will have it in the bottom octave and higher SPLs where high levels of linear excursion accounts for plenty. XXXs also cost more.....they also have a more "meaty" sound.

Bear in mind I have a vested interest in XXXs but that is how I see it and for that matter why I import them.

hehe lol at sonic nirvana's sig....telling everyone he's biased towards a product he sells already

at least he's honest

I heard that XXX is a better version of Brahma (no offence to all Brahma fans) in SQ... is that rumour is true??? in what way XXX is better??? I've heard the Brahma 12 and i reckon the brahma is an awesome SQ sub... the best that i've ever heard...

i've owned both. (brahma 12" and XXX12")
IMO the XXX is more refined,
in ported enclosures it's smoother, with a straight and low group delay curve. output under 30Hz is incredible
in a sealed box, it's more authoritive and cleaner than the brahma. never heard a woofer that sounds this good, OR drops this low. it doesn't need as much power to achieve the same output, it's 0.707 alignment is achieved in 24L from memory. 5-6L less than the brahma
i've already swapped the XXX12 for a XXX10, as it's got even better low end extension (BL Vs surface area is greater) it's plenty loud enough, even though it hasn't been run in, i'll be adding a 2nd XXX10 later for good measure

E320titanium should be able to give you an independant viewpoint, as he heard my setup (untuned) at the Fhrx BBQ on saturday.

Reply to Mr_Bob:
Thanks for your info... i am planning to change my sub to 12" XXX hopefully i don't have to re-build the subwoofer box... currently i'm using 12" IDMAX... the box is 1.4cuft... do you think it's too big or just the right size???

so are you saying that power over 200wrms being fed into both the IDmax and the xxx, the xxx will be the better option? i dont see how one sub taking 1000wrms and another sub taking the same amount can be any different, besides personal preference in sound. many people say that both the ID and the RE are on par with sound quality. so how can there be a difference in sound (again, besides personal tastes) when they are running close to their maximum capabilities(as in 990wrms).

ps.when i say 'sound' i mean their ability to reproduce the the music when pushed close to their limits effectively. just to clarify.cheers.

XXXs (like Brahmas) have XBL^2 motor technology.

The short version is that XBL^2 allows the BL curve (motor strength) to be maintained much more strongly towards the limit of the woofer excursion, instead of reducing with excursion as other woofers do when the coil "escapes" the magnet's influence.

In practical terms, it means that XXXs continue to have good quality SQ at high excursions where conventional motored designs sound less good as excursion rises.

At more modest power levels, this is less of an issue, but still some....XBL^2 motors typically have lower distortion at lower power levels.

Looks to me as though XXX's are trying to corner the market and take over the world. mmm should i jump on the bandwagon.

actually i think you misread my post...
i meant:
if you're only going to feed 200WRMS to the woofer, then go for an IDQ there are plenty of Iasca competitors who swear by them, and recon the sound quality is better than the IDMAX.
IDQ/IDMAx/XXX they're all "on par" in terms of SQ, up 500WRMS, jsut different styles to suit your taste.
however, when playing LOW frequencies at moderate levels, or any frequencies at high levels, the XXX is unbeatable for SQ IMO.
the only thing that comes close is the brahma

I'll chip in and say, wait and see what Adire do at CES2005, i've already had a heads up and they are going to leave most other high-ex SQ subs for dead at the pricepoint with their newline subs... XBL^2, >40mm Xmax and BL in excess of 22Tm in a sub that costs a little less than a XXX

oh okay. thats what i thought you were saying. what i said, and from what i understood from your post was that, yes, if your going to use only 200wrms then the IDQ is the better option, i agree. however if your going to be pushing more than 200wrms into the sub and you have 2 option (ID or XXX) then the XXX would be better. wouldnt using the ID in a ported enclosure improve on its ability to hit those low frequencies or not? i dont know what the recommended enclosure of the XXX is but running an ID in a 1.3 cu.ft. sealed box isnt going to reach those low frequencies that you mentioned. is this right or wrong?

XXX12 "standard" sealed box is only 0.8 cu ft and makes pretty nice bottom octave in that in most installations.

Certainly porting the ID will more than make up with extra "meat" in the bottom end, and it does port very well. So does the XXX

when i was buying a new sub, i made a choice between an ID MAX 12" and an RE AUDIO XXX 12", both to be powered by a Calibre CA2000D (1250wrms@1ohm) and i chose the idmax because a perth store could get it in for me, instead of ordering it from the eastern states
the idmax is wicked, but if i turn the gain up too high on the amp eg more than 1/3 of the way up, the id max will get very distorted and sound shocking. at this point it is already very loud though, definately loud enough for SQ usage (unless you have like 500 watts going to your front stage), although not extremely loud, so i am thinking perhaps i would have been better off getting the re audio XXX... because somtimes i like to blast everyone..just a thought...
and also a place which retails both the subs gave me the opinion that the XXX would go louder off 1250 RMS!!! so decide whether you want SPL or SQ..honestly i wanted SPL over SQ and i made the wrong choice in the end! so think hard

disorder, i don't think that anyone would ever be disappointed with an IDMAX,
but perhaps in your circumstance another product woul dhave suited you better.

are you 100% sure that it's the IDMAX making the distortion or is it the caliber amp?

at the end of he day, your options in WA are quite limited

x2
Surely it is more likely to be the Caliber amp which is the cause of the distortion rather than the MAX. Having said that though the Calibers are built like brick____houses...
All your gains and HU outputs set correctly?? That's the only other thing I can think of.

I was going to say the same. Speakers are pretty unbias in that they play what is fed to them. The first step to tracing the distortion would be to look at the amplifier driving the sub and it's matching to the rest of the system.

im not 100% sure its the sub however it doesnt sound liek the bass is distorted...it more sounds like physically the cone is being pushed too hard and something inside is hitting somethign else..if you know what i mean. maybe i should just try a ported box has anyone done this and what were the results like?

ported box will give more output, i havent' modelled an IDMAX though
is the IDMAX cone moving far?
it could be tinsel lead slap, i'm not familiar with the methods they use to avoid this.
maybe Hutch can fill us in?

it moves quite a bit before the bad sound starts happening, but then if i turn up the gain more it starts moving way way more but the bad hitting sounds start. is something wrong with it maybe? i doubt it is reaching the excursion it should be able to reach without making bad sounds

I think here is your problem. The gains on an amp is NOT a volume control. If you want to turn up the volume, do it in the head unit. Turn down the gains for the fronts if necessary. Gains are set to match the output from the headunit.

W3RD!!

gains are definelty not used for volume control!

Im not sure if this amp, but drew at northfield once demonstrated to me on a cheap amp what the gains do. When playing a 0 bit track, with the gains down low, it was silent, but as he turned them up, a hiss was introduced that got louder as the gains were turned up.

I would harldy call this the speakers fault, the speaker is playing what it is fed.

happy christmas everyone

both seem to be great subs in their own rights by all reports.

i would suggest looking at this another way

if you have a target frequency response then you could choose the subwoofer that requires a smaller box.

if you have space restrictions then this is very important. This in some cases is the deciding factor rather than sheer output with x number of watts.

i can say that the adire brahma is an excellent product and that if the re xxx is similar (uses the same technology) then it would be a great sub to use.

db output, box size, box alignment and power output of the sub amp might be things to considder. These might choose the sub for you


good luck

if its my amp thats clipping then 1250watts rms is nothing
i have set the gain a bit lower now just before it clips and it does sound very nice even pretty loud...just not as loud as i was hoping it to be.

i'd call a gain a specific compenent volume control... the volume of the headunit is just a headunit preout gain

Unlikely to be tinsel lead noise as the are woven thru the spider and do not run out in the open, so to speak. A speaker is fairly stupid and will happily reproduce whatever it is fed by the amplifier it is connected to.

To reiterate my previous point : Wait.

Both Adire and RE have got some rather interesting new gear coming out at CES in January, for the sake of a month or two you are going to see some VERY interesting new woofers coming out of the Adire/RE stables

Is IDMAX will sound better in ported box? I own an IDMAX 12" D4. I found out that in certain frequency and in certain music IDMAX is an awesome subwoofer that i've ever heard. But in some other frequencies, IDMAX doesn't sound as impressive as i thought. Is there any tricks in tuning the IDMAX??? What is the correct sealed box volume??? I use ARC 2500XXK to run the IDMAX. 2x540watts @ 2 ohm load.

The manual doesn't really help much tho. So i need users' opinion.

Sorry for the late VERY late reply but i have been real busy and havn't had much time to visit on here.

Thanks to Mr Bob i had a chance to listen to his system at the FHRX bbq and i can see why he won the SQ comp.
Very impressive indeed.

Actually to be honest i didn't take much notice of the sub and thats probably due to the fact that the whole system sounded so nice and even that it blended in that well.

In my mine thats how a sub and a system should be.
To blend as one.

Very Nice MR Bob.

Given the choice of XXX, Brahma and IDMAX and budget was not an issue I would probably choose the XXX as well...



I don't understand. Since when does more BL (for a given cone area) give you more low end extension?

Unless horribly underdamped (Qts over 1)...

Here are some pics to illustrate.

Here is the XXX12 vs the XXX10, each in a 0.7 Qtc enclosure. As you can see, apart from the efficiency/sensitivity difference, the frequency response is very similar. Its a nicely designed series of subs IMO...

[img]http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1009&stc=1[/img]

And here is a direct comparison of BL vs low end - All of the other specs are the same (Qtc of 0.7 used in each case) except those that are changed from having a higher/lower BL
Purple has a BL or 25, Yellow 20, Red 15, Yellow 10.

[img]http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1008&stc=1[/img]

I'll ask again, what music are you listening to below 30Hz??????

Just because your CD player's brochure states frequency response as 20Hz-20kHz it doesn't necessarily mean that there’s a heap of information down there.

The lowest note on a bass guitar is 43Hz. Only pipe organs really go lower. I don't listen to much pipe organ music myself; even then, the lowest I can think of is "The Planet Krypton" from the Superman Soundtrack at 24Hz, even that note is brief.

Maybe I’m missing out, please suggest some music for me to audition…….

Phil

sorry to hi jack but i am too trying to decide between the two subs

would 500wrms at 4 ohms be enough for either subs, my amp can only handle up to 1.5ohms no lower

thanks