Hi,

I'm going for a SQ setup, and was considering an Image Dynamics IDQ12.

I've now decided to consider an IDMAX12.

First of all, i'll give you a rough idea of the components ill have in my system.

My proposed system is:

HU: Pioneer DEH-P5650MP
FRONT: Morel Pulse 6
AMP: ARC Audio 2100XXK
REAR: Vibe SR69
AMP: Clarion V-net 2100
SUB: Image Dynamics IDMAX 12
AMP: Audison SRx2S

My question is, will the SRx2S give out enough power (600rms) to adequately run the IDMAX? I know the sub is rated at 1000rms, and optimally loves to run off huge power (1000rms + ) but i've heard some say they have run them fine off 400 or 500 rms.

Another question:
Will the ARC 2100 give my splits enough volume to keep up with the IDMAX with that type of power going through it?

If the Audison is powerful enough, then I will probably go for the IDMAX, and otherwise will probably stick with the IDQ.

Thanks!
Pete

they are supposed to sound good off even 100watts rms. thats what the company says though..so maybe their lying. mine sounds really good at low volumes though so im guessing this means it would be fine with less power than they are rated to handle. just dont expect it to be incredibly loud but it should sound really good and be fairly loud

Yes people have run them fine off that kind of power, its also more than enough for daily driving.

As for the Arc Audio for your fronts being able to keep up with the sub, it will be fine just set your gains correctly and it'll have no problems.

Also just to let you know the IDQ is still a very nice Sub and is very good to SQ competition wise to just daily driving, so consider to yourself if you really wanted to spend that extra $300 or so.

no their not lying. im running mine off 140wrms temporarily and it still hits quite hard. based on my situation id imagine that 600wrms would run it more than adequetely. i dont think you can go wrong with that amount of power.cheers.

For SQ the SRx2S will run an IDMAX12 just fine, they are not power hungry subs.

To be honest though, for SQ I would use the IDMAX10 which imo is the pick of the 2 for SQ and actually drops a bit lower, all in a smaller box....and cheaper too!

What i'm looking for is a relatively flat slope, and strong low bass production (below 30htz). Would an IDQ12/15 suit this purpose as well, and what type of enclosure would be recommended?

if your want below 30Hz i think you would need a ported enclosure. please anyone correct me if im wrong. i know the Id max in a sealed enclosure can reach 40Hz, at best. though you dont want to tune it to far below 30 Hz. remeber humans can only audibly hear down to 20Hz. i wouldnt tune it below 26Hz.

what about a TU600 US Amps tube driver?
They are a nice amp, affordable and a little different too!

The IDMAX range, both 10 and 12 will comfortably go below 20hz in their recommended sealed enclosure. In fact, one of the few complaints I receive from IDMAX owners is that, if anything, they have TOO MUCH low frequency output.

really. im suprised. how do you actually tune a sealed enclosure, or does it all depend on the size of it? im a bit confused, so please explain.

While i'm at it, another question.

The vibe 6x9's are damaged and going to be exchanged, but i'm considering going for 6.5" coaxes for the rears instead of 6x9's. After all, the prime advantage of 6x9's is bass, which the sub will take care of.

I'll see what the 6x9's sound like first (havent actually gotten to test them yet), but assume i end up switching them for 6.5's, which would you recommend for up to around $250?

I'm looking for something that will have a similar sound to the morel pulse, and something with soft dome tweeters is preferable, as i prefer the smoothness of soft domes.

My two current options are:
*Hertz HCX165
*Boston Accousics NX67

The Bostons I think may match better with the Morels (i hear the hertz are a little bright and mid-bass heavy) but they also are $100 more. Bass isnt important, only midrange and treble quality, as the subs (looking to be an IDQ12) is going to handle the bass operations. Power handling may also be a factor, as theyll likely be fed 100rms. Here I think is probably aother plus for the Hertz.

Anyone here heard both sets and can comment on the different characteristics of the two?



I've been playing around with a box simulation program, with the IDMAX 12, IDQ12 and IDQ15.

Based on the frequency response graphs, the IDMAX12 wouldnt go under the high 40Hz range no matter how much I played with it.

Surprisingly my best results seemed to come from the IDQ12 in a 1.77cu ft ported enclusure...came up with a frequency of 29Hz at -3db, with what was pretty much a perfectly flat curve through the majority of the frequency range. Seems to be accurate program, as the results I came up with ended up practically identical to those recommended in the ID website for the IDQ.

Sticking in an IDQ15 actually made the bass less low/deep (because of larger enclosure requirements), and the IDMAX12 seemed to go slightly lower (by maybe 1 or 2 Hz), but was harder to get a flat curve from.

The IDQ12 in a sealed enclosure didnt want to go much under 50hz at -3db.

Maybe theres a way to get a sealed boxed to run low like that, but in all my playing with figures, I couldnt get it even close.

When I get a nicer car and go more intensely into my system, I'm thinking of sticking maybe an 8" or 10" sub in a sealed box to take care of tight bass, and putting the IDQ the sealed box to take care of the deep, low sub bass.

whats this id max in a sealed enclosure can only reach 40 hz?? the lower the freq the better it gets with mine!! goes sooo hard at low frequencys if anything id say its not as good at the higher frequencys

Don't always go just based on a box plot program. They do not allow for cabin gain, and often are far from what you really hear. Many people on this form own/have used IDQ's and IDMAX's, you would be better off copying a built and heard box, preferably one that has been tested in a car of similar size.

You also have to consider the cabin gain of the vehicle - the low bass will be greatly boosted, so you don't actually want a frequency response that is flat to 30hz in an anechoic enviroment.

As Hutch mentioned, The IDMAXv3s will play quite low in sealed enclosures when used inside your car.



Why would you want to use two subwoofers? Using a 8" or 10" sub with a 12" or 15" sub would be totally unnecessary - 8" or 10" subs aren't necessarily "tighter" than 15" (or larger) subs.

I just figured by doing this, you are essentially devoting each frequency range to a particular sub (normal bass to the 8"/10", subbass to the 12") via crossovers. As such, I figured that because each sub is handling a specific, smaller frequency range, it should be able to do what it's doing more easilly.

No idea whether or not this would indeed be the case, as I dont mess around a whole lot with subs (this is my first), but im just trying to think rationally. Unfortunately though, there are times when the world does not work rationally :S

I know marty was running an IDMAX in his car, so maybe hed have an idea of what is a good enclosure for one? Hopefully hell have an idea of what will be suitable for an IDQ as well.

Dedicating a driver to a smaller specific range won't automatically translate to better performance/sound quality. Another driver should only be used when using one driver would result in compromised performance/sound quality over a particular frequency range - obviously a normal tweeter would not work that well as a subwoofer. Based on the dimensions of the cone, a 12"/15" should be able to play well into the midrange without problems, thus there would be little point in using an additional 8"/10" subwoofer at the rear of the car. The only other restriction to how high the subwoofer will be able to play without problems is the voice coil inductance (relative to the nominal impedance). Of course it is quite possible for an 8" driver to have a higher value of inductance than a 15" (or other sized) driver.

It is the front speakers that should be covering the midbass anyway. (so you may want to use 8" midbass drivers in your front stage.)
(or maybe even 10/12/15" midbass drivers in your front stage if you can fit them and enough air volume (whether infinite baffle or in an enclosure) behind them without problems *evil grin*)

You want the midbass drivers to be at the front of the car, so that you will retain the bass-up-front sound..

The world always works rationally, its people who are unable to think rationally. (myself included of course)

Oh yeah, one of the main reasons why you'd choose larger diameter midbass drivers is if you needed to increase the amount of linear displacement (which is basically linear xmax multiplied by cone area). More linear displacement will allow for more volume (SPL) without distortion.

(alternatively, you could still use smaller diameter drivers, but those which have increased linear xmax)

The other reason is if your front splits do not play low enough (and if due to various reasons you cannot EQ them to fix this).

thats where i fell off the tracks abit. on the sheet ID sends to you the lowest freq. that can be reached is 40Hz in a large sealed encl. i undersatnd now what you mean with the in cabin gain. which leads me to my next question, if you tune a sub in a ported box, do u tune it slightly higher than recomended due to in car gain. for eg. tune the port to 35Hz, expecting 25Hz due to in cabin gain. does that make sense?

You tune the enclosure for a particular frequency response curve - the shape of the curve is in some ways more important than the actual tuning frequency.
I sometimes try to design ported enclosures that have kind of a bass shelf - a 3 or so dB gain over a sealed enclosure over a decent range of sub bass frequencies. Sometimes this may mean tuning to 25hz, sometimes this may mean 35hz. (or whatever)

Fair enough

I hear the IDQ12's are quite a tight sub anyway, so should be fine. I won't be using any large diameter drivers in the front of my car anytime soon, it just takes too much work to fit them somewhere, power them, and stop them from rattling your doors from here to never-never-land. Plus there's the problem of cost..

However, may well consider it later down the track when I change my car. I think i'm already going a little overboard in the System:Car value ratio

Ok, I had a problem with availiability of the IDQ12, so I have just ordered an IDMAX12. This means that I have now had to bring back this thread from the dead

Ok, well the deal-io is this.. I need an amp powerful enough to power an IDMAX comfortably. Something that can handle the massive motor structure. My current system (in case i didnt already mention it) is :

Front: Morel Pulse 6
AMP: ARC Audio 2100-xxk
REAR: Boston NX67
AMP:
SUB: Image Dynamics IDMAX12
AMP:

These are the 'set in stone' items. Now, I also have an Audison SRx2S, which puts out around 600w rms mono at 4ohms, but im not satisfied that this will be enough.. I know it will run the sub fine, but I want super clean bass and I don't think it will be quite enough for this..

So, on somewhat of a budget, what is my best option? I'm looking at:

*A monoblock that puts out 700 @ 4ohm, 900 @ 2ohm
OR
*A 2ch that puts out 1x800 @ 4ohm bridged

Problem is, i'm also after quality. Something up to or better then the quality of an Audison LRx (LRx, VRx, ARC, Zapco, etc). Will consider other brands, but would prefer something quality.

My other option would be to buy anotehr SRx2S and get a dual 4ohm IDMAX, with one audison per voice coil, but that will require:
*another SRx2S - est $450-$500
*an amp for my rear speakrs - around $300
And hence will cost me around $800. As such, i'm willing to spend a little more.. so my budget is around the $1,000 mark.

Firstly, what amp would you recommend?

Secondly, does anyone have any amps they have for sale, that they feel may suit the job at hand?

Thanks,
Pete

Pete, you must be the only one that likes to write essays

huh, dun you know there is a book just out and written by Pete.

hahahaha i do now

Ok, loos like an ARC 1500-XXK is my best bet at the moment... ill see how things go.

You don't know the half of it. You should see Pete's emails.

Pete, you already have that 2100XXK you were showing me the other day, why not keep the theme and run with a 1500XXK or 2500XXK as well?

Yeah, I was thinking of that - It's a pity that noone can get the lower range arc amps over here as well, otherwise id get one of those for my rears to keep with the theme as well.

I'm thinking of using the SRx2S to power my rear fill Bostons. However, i've got a feeling the 180rmsx2 will be extreme overkill (i'm guessing the bostons are probably rated at somewhere around the 50-70rms range). Would this be total overkill you think (considering my sound stage is currently faded on about 10 to the front...) ? Even on a 50rms amp they would probably be on 1/3 gains..

Anyone know why the 2500 is so much more expensive then the 1500? Considering they are so close in output (240x2 vs 270 x2, 900x1 vs 1050x1 respectively) at 4 ohms? I'm guessing there is more to it then just the output, because $400 for about 30rms (or 100 bridged) seems like alot..