guys..

i need a bit of assistance/guidance here..

i currently have a set of Dyn 240GT's in the factory locations (door pods/dash mount) in my VS running off an Audison LRx2.500..

i have a chance to get a set of DD mids (possible swap) and this got me thinking.. will these mids work with the Dyn crossover and MD100 tweeters??
i plan on using the rest of my dyn system as i am happy with the sound altho the midbass could be a little more..
mounting depth isnt a problem so no dramas there..

is it worthwhile changing the midbass over, and how will the 'specifics' of the crossover change.. what specs they are, i dont know..

can anyone guide me??

[change of topic, read last post]

if the impedence of both drivers are the same (eg: 4ohm), then the xovers will work fine. however, the efficiency of the drivers could differ, which will affect the relative volume/balance between woofer and tweeter. so, if for example, the DD woofers are less efficient, the treble/tweeters will sound relatively louder, which could be bad (despite all the attenuation/boost options).

it may be a bit hit and miss, and would be best if you ran 'active' using active xovers. but i think you've rule that option out long ago.

still, you won't know unless you try.

From my experience I'd say it could be a good mix.

That said, our DDW6.5 will handle 3-4 times the power of the Dyn mid, if you run mega power you may start killing tweets and crossovers if you're not sensible.

Phil

hmm...

as far as i know, both Mids are 4ohm so no dramas with the crossovers..

the mountings of the mids..
both the inner and outer skins are deadened with serenity, and there is also brownbread on the inner skins to fill in the holes that were left open after the first stage of deadening..
the mids are mounted onto 18mm MDF rings, which are screwed directly to the inner skin, with 12mm spacer at the bottom to angle them slightly..

and richard, i ruled out active a long time ago.. i just couldnt be bothered with it, and needed the cash so i sold the extra amps (caliber & LRx2.250) ages ago.. hmmm.. and im using the rear rca outs for my rear amp.. altho you might convince me with a 'cheapish' processor..

Phil..
im running them off 200wrms a side so i dont think power will be a problem..

richard.. how do you mean about the differences?? i dont quite understand..
from what i understand, if the mids are not as efficient, the tweeters will be louder?? i thought the dd mids would have 'roughly' the same efficiency as the Dyn mids..

I'd say the DDs would be more efficient, the Dyns tend to be power hungry.

There's tweeter level adjustment in the Dyn crossover, you shouldn'y have any problems at all.

Phil

hmm, Damo, why not get some 8" to make some 3 ways? run them seperately up front to get that base you so love?

Interesting Phil..

so the Dyn crossover will work with the DD mid, and the x-over settings will still remain the same, with no difference at all??
how do i do this tweeter level adjustment within the crossover??

in that case, going active wont be necessary altho i can at the last extreme as i have a spare amp here (2x60wrms)..
im trying to get more midbass by spending as little of the folding stuff ($$$) as i possibly can as my finances are tight and my sub is in need of a recoil..

hangon what's the impedance response of both drivers?

If they're not the same then it's quite possible the xover point for the mid will shift (just because they're both 4ohm doesn't mean all the time!)

Damo run your system active.

The 9815 has built in active crossovers that are absolutely awesome, so much adjustability with fully adjustable crossover points on each speakers as well as different slopes. When running the tweeters active i would stick a 20uF cap in series for extra security

The DD doesn't have 'that' much more excursion over the Dyn's, but will most likely go louder.

well im currently running my DD mids along with focal crossovers and TN45 tweets. Doesnt sound *TOO* bad, definately needs some eq'ing tho.

You should be pretty impressed by the DDs tho. You seem to have your doors deadened well. Did minor work on my doors yesterday (sealing trim onto door properly - no air leaks) and the difference in mid bass was incredible. I dont have the much experience with differing brands of mids, but the DDs play fairly low and fairly loud running only off the H/U. Wish i had ~200wrms to throw at them

I just put the Dyn and DD mids into winisd and they both have identical effiecieny.

The response curve shows that the Dyn's have better free air qualities so they do play lower more efficiently, however the DD's would make up the gap with raw power handling and slightly more excursion.

I'd stick with what you have now, the crossovers if run passive have been designed for the Dyn mids.

Also the it is often agreed that midrange speakers should have a large diameter voice coil that is shorter to provide better speed and accuracy in the upper midrange. The Dyn has a 3inch coil where as the DD has a 1.5inch coil.

I'd stick with the dyns

cool, i just put my sub box into WinISD and it says that my 1.6cuft box tuned to 57hz will have a perfectly flat response curve. I love WinISD.

You must be using DD subs VL Commy?

Now you see why the Brahma guys call them Big mibbass drivers, even winisd says so...


:wave:

Muz, try some /sarcasm's

yeh... i think i might

good question, i was thinking of doing something rather similar to this to.

Our W6.5 has 25mm peak to peak excursion, I've personally run 600Wrms into them full-range (ex no high pass) in free air (car door).

The LT version has even more excursion and power handling, but is best used as a mid-bass only driver, 1000Hz and below.

I've been doing this for a living for 12 years, I've never heard any 6.5" as loud, clean or bassy.

Phil

active is a possibility..
BUT..
im using the rear pre-outs for my rears, so thats a no go.. I dont wanna do too much more work, or change the install too much.. i was thinking of just changing the mids over and seeing how i go.. i want a little more kick with minimal work.. going active would most likely be better, but in my case, too much work for me to go thru as i have been down that path before.. and i dont really wanna do it all again, as it means more $$ than i can afford to outlay.. altho the difference in sound will be worth it..

and because i cant use the internal crossovers, i was maybe thinking about getting an active crossover (any cheap ones going) that acts like a passive, but before the amps.. i have another amp here i can use for the tweeters but splitting the signals is my concern.. any suggestions for crossovers ($minimal) that will do bandpass (50-2500Hz) and highpass (2500Hz+)??



does anyone know the mounting depth differences with the 2??

this is interesting..

i belive the one's you were looking at damo were the normal version's not the LT version.

To go active you'll need another amp for the tweeters and an active crossover, so it would be quite a bit more.

Passive crossovers work better at high frequencies. Active is far more important for subs, midbass etc

The Dyn crossover should do fine.

Phil

The 2nd amp for the tweeters isnt a problem, as i have that already..
the active crossover is something i would have to look into, as well as the wiring overhaul and space needed..

thanx for that Phil, i might give it a shot first and see how i go from there..

just wire them in and see how they sound. Then have a bit of a fiddle with the EQ and im sure u wont have a problem.

Damo dont you have 9815?? Im running my system active using the exact same headunit. I couldn't find an external active crossover for under $1000 with the same features.

Maz... Read a previous post!!


BUT.. for some reason, im getting interferance in my rears so i will be taking out the rear amp and running them off the head unit again..
then, i can use the 9815 internal crossovers to run active as its most likely that i'll go that way now as i have everything (except speaker wire) to do the 'conversion'..

what settings are you using Maz?? and would you be able to help me set mine up once its done??

ok...

my situation has changed somewhat as the DD mids i had my eyes become suddenly unavailable..

i still want to do this, and will most likely go active front stage in the process.. providing i can sell the Dyn mids and crossovers (looks at bob^)..

What midbass's would you guys recommend in an active setup, with lots of hard 'kicks'.. i want it so that if i had the subs off, there was enough kick up front to keep my happy.. why i say that is because my sub will be off for a recoil soon and i will be subless temporarily.. from my understanding, the MD100's can only play down to ~2500Hz so i'll need something to go up to that range.. and 3 way is out of the question, as i will be using the existing door pods in the VS..

i have a few in my mind, but not sure, and price will play a part as i dont want to spend that much if possible..
-> DD - Phil, can you give me some specifics please..
-> Rainbow Power series 7" midbass (double stacked magnets, 96mm mounting depth) - im going to be listening to a set of these with roughly the same power as i have available..
-> any others?

or would i be better off/able to use the Dyn midbass i have currently, but run active?? will this 'improve' midbass for me as there is nothing else for it to share the power with??

i have no idea why you would get rid of the dyns and use another product. With sound-deadening and lots of power 300watts rms plus to the mids you will get incredible midbass....it will blow you away...why use another brand????

I agree, the dyns are pretty top. Theres not much better in terms of midbass, their may be a few products that have slightly more but the difference wouldn't be worth the effort.

If you want a noticable increase in midbass out of your fronts u'd need atleast 6db more displacement and theres not many 8inchers that can put that out that sort of output.

The Alpine 9815 is very easy to tune, as you can change setting from the drivers seat and hear the difference when you press the button, running to the active crossover sitting in the boot is very hard to tune as you be able to hear the subtle differences.

With my Alpine 9815 i have my Image dynamic minihorns running highpass from 1000hz up, this is the lowest crossover frequency i could use on the tweeter outputs, i have the slope set at 24db.

My 8inchers are running band passed at 1000hz and 50hz. With my sub playing from 80hz down, my doors aint sound deadened yet, the midbass is still very impressive, Still got the custom door trims to finnish which flow just like the original VT door trims just with 8's instead

cool... looks like im set now..

active Dyn's are the way to go, so ill have a fiddle with doing that..
and its the cheapest way out, as i only have to get speaker wires as i have everything else at home already..

thanx guys.....

I have seen a set of Rainbow Powerline splits and OMFG!
I haven't heard a set but if they are true to the Rainbow name they should offer awesome sound quality.
Just an awesome looking midbass driver! (Very manly!)

yeah, i know.. they are horn!!!

i have heard a set, altho in a 3 way active setup.. the midbass is nice and hard.. altho the mounting depth is my problem.. oh, and the $700pr price tag.

ok.. at a crossroad here..
i have been told by various people that the Dyn's sound better passive, which i agree to an extent.. so active Dyns are a no go, or is it..
would an EQ help in my case?? run that in line before the front stage amp?

i have been given a nice 'offer' on a set of DD mids.. im considering going active with those, altho the size is my only real concern.. i want to use the factory door pods, and mount the midbass on solid MDF mounts behind those.. you reckon they'll fit Maz??

hmmmm

yeah i wouldent go active with dyn's never heard anyone thats happy with it.

how about the RE mid's they look nice and tasty but odnt know if they will just be brining in the mid's

yeah, thats what i thought...

hmmm.. RE mids ey..
gotta link??

www.reaudio.com

they look very similar to the DD mids..

ok, i have 2 options..

-> passive Dyn's.. or...

-> Active DD mid / Dyn tweeter..

can anyone tell me the mounting depth of the DD mids, and the 'external' dimensions?? i need to know so i can make my mind up.. getting the mids isnt a problem, or running active.. the size is my problem, and whether they'l fit behind the stock VS door pods (on MDF mounts)..

Are we going by the specs on the DD website, or the actual DD specs. The actual measured DD specs tend to differ hugely from the specs on the website. (the 9500 series is an excelent example...)



Agreed by whom? I haven't seen this mentioned much before. The key is the inductance value (relative to the Re of course). Does anyone have the inductance values of both the 160gt and the W6.5? But the cone/dustcap etc is just as, (if not more in many cases) important in determining the upper midrange response...

The DD mid will certainly work with they Dyn crossovers, but will they work well? There is more to crossovers than just the nominal impedance and sensitivity.

I only have experience with the 160gt, but midbass wise, I would suspect that the W6.5 would be better in midbass terms as it has more available excursion. Both p-p and linear xmax - according to the (unbiased and impartial ) Adire Audio website, the W6.5 has roughly 6mm of linear xmax - that is about twice what the 160gt has.
Upper midrange wise however, I would choose the 160gt.

So you are somewhat happy with the Dyns currently, but feel that the midbass is a little lacking? what in particular is wrong - are they not playing low enough, or are they bottoming out, or are they lacking a little at a specific frequency (80hz or 100 or 120 hz for example)?

Mmmmmm Adire website.

Phil

BassA..

im happy with the midbass, just wanted a little more kick down low..
they are high-passed at 50Hz, with the sub low-passed at 80Hz i think so there is some sort of overlap..

i dont know why im not happy with them as they vibrate the door mirrors while its cranked.. and for some reason, they sound better with rock style music than dance.. :confused: hmmm... i think im listening to the wrong music...

i think i should look at my mounting options before going out and changing the components, as im happy with the Dyn 160gt's.. i was told that i might need more power? is this possible, not that i want to change the amp as it would mean that i would have to change my install, in a major way..

i also think that because of my hearing impairement, my perceptions of midbass is different to all you able-hearing people.. which plays around with me as i cant hear as good as the rest of ya.. hmmm...

i think i just need to fix the mounts, sound deaden some more and re-tune the setup..

thanx for your help guys..

Go for the DD mids and those vifa tweeters people use with them...and sell me your xovers and tweeters

Might be a silly comment but just check that you can infact run Active mode in the 9815 whilst also having the internal amp working...just rings a bell in my head for some reason....

i was going down that route, but the DD's wont fit inthe door's of my car without major reconstruction..
still using the Vifa's tho

rob..

how much and where can i get these Vifa tweeters your using??

if they go so well together, i might consider the change..
PM if necessary..

IMO there is no need to get a more powerful amplifier. 150w is more than enough to drive MW160GTs them well past their linear limits with music that has significant midbass content..

Otherwise, retuning the setup will be a good idea. The subwoofer volume level is important - if it is too high, then the bass will have poor SQ, regardless of how good the front stage is. I'm assuming you have a decent subwoofer enclosure, it is located in a decent position etc.

im feeding 200wrms a side atm the moment and its just nice..

yep, a decent sub enclosure indeed..
3cf slot ported, tuned around ~37Hz i think.. Ripped can confirm the specs..
rear loaded as well, firing into a 'sealed' off boot..

Rob/Bob.. im going to look into the Vifa tweeter thing..
how well do they sound??

Ive got my 2 way dyns running active, and have no complaints. Why dont you try it and see how it goes.

Well I got first dibs on the xovers and tweeters if your happy with the Vifa tweeters.
I think Phil knows how this combo goes??

can you give me a more indepth idea of how yours is set up actively??

yes Bob, you have first dibs..
and i think Rob has first dibs on the mids..

Phil!!! where are ya??
this is getting interesting.. but due to the size of the vifa tweeter in question, i dont dont think i can mount it on top of the dash, so it looks like kick panels for me if i do this..

I got two butler 2150's one for the mids one for the tweets, and using a audio control DXS X-over. But there is no reason why you couldnt run them active off your hu.

LexARSE..

have you compared your active setup to running the passive crossover?
and how does it sound?

im itching to go active Dyn anyway as i almost have everything here, except speaker wires and can easily go back to passive if its unsuccessful..

Damo... so much time you have, fix my subs you must!

/ends yoda voice