I have a 12" idmax.

when playing certain deep bass genres. there is a very large roll surround noise. where it looks like the cone is trying to jump out of the box.
the sound is very abnormal and worrys me alot.

its running off a PG X1200.1 in a 1.3 cb 36mm sealed enclosure.
it has been tuned by a stereo shop already.

the shop tells me that the noise is not caused by un tuned or faults. and will cause no harm and that the noise is coming from the roll surround.

i dont know if im over reacting but to me it seems like there has to be somthing wrong. and i am asking for any further opinions, comments, quieries that can help me.

thankyou,

Mitch

the roll on the IDMAX 10" is knwon the "pinch" which causes an audible noise, but the 12" shouldn't... what does the surround look like when it's at high excursion?
most subwoofers have reduced mtoor strength the further they move. this can result in muddy low frequencies.

the surround at high excusrion looks like it couldnt move the cone out any further. but the cone is moving in and out so fast its hard to describe wot it looks like.

The song that does make it clear to hear is. 50 Cent- Hey shorty its your birthday.

and the noise will only occur at high volumes.

i hope that helped.... lol probadly not

Sounds from that description that the cone is reaching max excursion, and is having issues as a result of the lessened motor strength.
Have you made sure the box is actually sealed? (ie there isn't a really small leak) as that may cause crappy response at the higher end of the volume knob

I think you find you could just be pushing the sub to its limits. My IDMAX 10 does this when playing low and loud. Buy another 12 so you dont have topush em as hard to get the same out put

to test if the box is sealed, *carefully* press the sub cone in, it should be difficult....
when it's in a centimetre or so, let go and it shoudl return slowly.
this is a sign of a well sealed box.

if it returns instantly, it's time to re-seal that box!

on teh other hand, it could be that the IDMAX isn't suitable for your taste in music. it's good for low frequencies at moderate levels, but not at high volumes.

the box was custom made and is only 4 weeks old. i will turn it on soon and check for air leakige.

but the equipment is bottom range and i was expecting alot better sound quality from it. this why i am questioning it then i can explain to the installer at the shop my thoughts.

thankyou,

mitch

lol i cant afford another 12 and another box *sighs* plus wouldnt fit.

and that testing thing ill try but i dont want to damge it by touching the cone to much.

the music i listen to is pretty wide but mainly. Dance, RNB,Pop

i like the sound of the subwoofer but some types of songs it worrys me at certain volumes thats all.

your 10" gives similar response as my description? and you resolved by an additional subfooer?

thanx

you don't need to turn it on to do the pushing test.
be careful to push it in straight, if you feel scraping.. stop!

bottom range? the IDMAX is a great sub... not many around that'll beat it!
you sure it's not an ID or IDQ? that would make more sense!

yeah im positve its a 12" Image dynamics IDMAX D4 V.3 Subwoofer.

i will do that test now...

thanx

ok i pushed it in probadly not even 1cm and was difficult to do. when released it came back relativly slow in about 4-5 seconds it was back in original position.

Well if it definately is the IDMAX then that certainly isn't bottom range (800odd bucks too!)
Hopefully it is just the seal of the box as that is relativly easy to fix and will yield a definate gain!
As was mentioned above though, perhaps the sub isn't suited to your needs if you want exceptional quality at blistering volumes. Although in the car audio application I am not sure of something else to reccomend! Mr Bob now runs a XXX as do I, but I am not sure that they would be substantially better if you are managing to bottom an ID MAX out. That being said they do have the XBL motor in them which allows the cone to respond better at full excursion.....

Let's just hope it is the box!

yes i know the idmax is an expenisive subwoofer and is reviewd to be similar to the Jl w7.

im pretty sure the box is sealed but waiting for Mr Bob... *em face*

maybe il just be careful on my selection of song choices and turn down the volumes on songs with deep bass.

i chose the 1.3 sealed 1.3 cf because i thought it would provide the best response. and was recomended

From what you describe it sounds like the box was sealed well. You would know if it wasn't - the sub would be easy to depress and spring straight back into position when released.

I think that being carefull might just have to be your best bet for the time being. A number of people have reviewed the XXX as better than the IDMAX, one reason being it's better performance louder and lower. You could PM Sonic Nirvana who is the importer to see if that particular sub would perform substantially better. But that is more money!
But the specs that you describe on the sealed box are what is reccommended. How loud is loud? What voice coil config are you running with that amp - and what are the amp specs? Maybe you are getting some underpowering probs???
Just trying to think of alternatives....

yes i agree and i dont wish to spend more money.

How loud?
my head unit goes up to 50. i was told it was tuned at around 40. so i take it up to 40 most the time 35-40 anyway.

not exactlly sure what RMS is going in there. but by looking at the gains it would be around 900rms.

The amplifier is. Phoenix Gold Xenon 1200.1 which gives 1200rms at any load ( 1-4 oh)

the subwoofer is D4 so it is running at a 2oh load.

the wiring kit is phoenix gold pro 4awg . i know its a tad small and will be 1/0 awg shortly. but i have a voltage meter and it is suppling 13-14 volts when ignition is on.

1.3 cuft is a little larger than i would use, but this shouldn't be the problem,
your results tell me that your box is well sealed, so it sounds like you're just pushign your woofer too hard.

to help reduce this problem, you can set the subsonic filter on your x1200 which will reduce excursion at low frequencies, but if you set it to high, yuo might lose some fo your precious bass!

when you run teh amp hard, can you hear the fan running? if the fan is running cnostantly, you might be pushing the amp too hard... but if the surround is stretched out, then it points toward the sub.

i'm a partner at Sonic nirvana, and to me it sounds like a XXX will suit your needs. it's got more excursion than an IDMAX (32mm each way) and it's got a linear motor which means the motor strength (BL) is very consistent, even when the cone has moved as far as it can.
talk to Fhrx about pricing and for his comments on the 2 subs, he has used, and sells both, so he's unbiased.

a second IDMAX will also solve your problem, but this requires more boot space and re-working your install.

if you're getting 13V+ then i don't think that'll affect your amp's output much.
the gains dont' affect the overall output, even if they're set at 1/2way, you can still get the full 1200WRMS, depending upon your pre-out voltage.

i will check the fan theory shortly...

but the additional idmax or a xxx is out of my budget maybe ill keep it down for a while and see how finances go. and will take back to shop and ask about the low pas filter changing the set frequncies.

also on the head unit there is no addiotnal bass boost selected its on 0 and the sub pre out volume on head unit is on 7 out 12.

im living in W.A if there is any stereo shop that has had experience with the idmax in w.a would be great to show them too.


thankou so much for your help too hey much appreciated didnt mean to take up so much of your time *em face*

not the low pass filter, the sub sonic filter!
set it to about 30-35Hz, and see if ithelps keep the sub within it's limits
the manual tells you how many clicks is which frequency.

i think audioart are your best bet in WA, they've got bucketloads of general experience with car audio gear. Otherwise PM KAL_SPL i'm sure he can help you out!

no problem at all, if we didn't have the time, we wouldnt' be here!

I was wondering if this was an official thing or not!

somewhat, which is why i'll be in pro class (CAASQ) from now on!

Can I suggest that you return to the store you purchased the woofer from and also, I assume, had it installed, and have them check it out for you. Unless the woofer is faulty (no one is perfect, they are hand assembled) then it should not be giving you the problems you describe. If you continue to experence problems, PM me and I will help you get it sorted.

Also, Mr Bob, perhaps you could restrict your comments to constructive advice rather than simply promoting your own product. The spirit of these forums in to impart knowledge, not to push your individual barrow.

Try these guys out,
Sounds Xplosive Audio
289 Great Eastern Hwy
Burswood
08 9361 22 77

They have had experience with ID products, (Dunno about the woofer you are currently using).

As far as Audioart are concerned, I know things have changed dramaticly in the last 18 months, Clint and Paul are no longer installing there.
(I'll leave it at that before I get myself in trouble)

Sup Hutch - Probably my bad about raising the XXX as an alternative (if you look I mentioned it first and then Ben just gave more info)
So apologies

He did also suggest to buy a second ID if that is any consolation!

Yeah, they have even better installers now than before. I have heard a lot of ID max setups built by Audioart. IMO they sound truly great.

Port the box. Ported box's make the sub move less, and it will also be louder.

The idmax's sound excellent ported.

Hutch, if you actually read the thread, you'd realise i wasn't "pushing my barrow"
Firstly i defended your product, even though it appears to be faulty. Given the reputation of your product i gave it the benefit of doubt.
Secondly i gave a number of helpful ideas to troubleshoot the problem, including suggesting that greg buys more of YOUR product.
Third, i didnt' mention my own product until after it was brought into the thread by someone else,
So i don't see how i'm promoting my product, other than to provide information where it is was invited (by waycon) Nor did i say anything un-toward about your product, as i truely believe it's a incredible product!

and i'd have to agree with Maz's point, going ported might get you that extra output, without putting the drive through as much stress. but it will require a considerably larger enclosure.

65L tuned to 25Hz would be my recommendation.
but any tune under 28Hz, and between 50-80L looks acceptable.

i found Ben and waycoon very helpful and they were pretty much just anwsering questions i was giving. i did not have the intentions of causing trouble.

anyway... i am now extremly confuzed

but i think i will try audioart and see what there opinion is on it. i hope that it is not a fault in the subwoofer.

and ported box seems like a idea. but id have to get another box made $

thankyou,

mitch

Remember to check out Sounds Xplosive or Technik Car Audio second opinions

thankfully. problem was install related.

The car stereo shop claimed it to be tuned incorrectly.
it is now re tuned. and the noise has been elliminated.

thanx for the help much appreciated.

mitch

Just out of curiousity, which shop did install the gears for you? Cheers

i didnt mention it because i didnt want to get in trouble.

but i installed everything except Alberts Myaree built the custom enclosure and fitted the subwoofer. then tuned both Subwoofer and 4 channel.

Mitch

hang on, you have to tell us what the problem was.

i have one guess:

You had the LOUD setting on

um.... i did tell you. and it wasnt me it was the installer.

but what the installer did to resolve the problem was change the settings on the subsonic filter. becuse they hadnt had experience with the pgx1200.1 using the clicks to get accuarate tuning.

i hope that anwsered your questin

That was one of my suggestions
They've reduced the output in the bottom octave
not the optimum setup, but a sensible/practical one.
it's safer for the sub, and you can play it "louder", but you'll be missing some frequencies.
if the subsonic is set at 25-30Hz, i doubt it'll make a huge difference...

In any event this was a solution which didn't cost a packet - so no doubt you are a happy camper!

yes mr Bob and Waycoon. your suggestions and help was much apreciated.

and yes didnt cost anything ( even though i went back 3 times telling them there was somthing wrong)

and i sure am a happy camper lol

many thanx. if you lived closer id invite you for a beer.

Mitch the happy camper

lol - argh well, next time I am in the neighbourhood!

Glad it turned out all good

Awesome, how's it sound now?

Definitely looking at this beast of a sub.

lol np i got a beer for Waycoon waiting for you soon. hey and it rymes!

and klone it sounds awesome hey. very tight bass and goes down pretty deep. i love playing maroon 5 on it. it sounds just like those big bass drums that you use your foot with. lol yep a drum hitting foot thingy!

just once you buy something to improve your stereo theres allways somthing else to add. endless money to be spent thats the only downside

like e.g need better splits coz i could play louder and sub wouldnt dominant as much.