Discussion from Technical Article

A very accurate and informative tutorial. If people follow this they should have no problems.

Good work Marc, I'll be doing that very soon (don't be suprised if you get a PM from me). How convenient, you did a Lancer too

Awesome. Out of interest, how much product was used on that? Just so we have a rough idea, dont want to be going back down to the shop 3 times to get more

Im a bit scared of doing it to the Cef as if I stuff something, its stuffed, no hope of going down to the wreckers for a new one. But then Im missing so much of the music I listen to its gota be done.

Is this hard if you have never done anything like this before? What should i be budgeting to do 2 doors and is the jaycar stuff ok to use as living in Tassie i dont have to many options for sound deadening materials to buy off the shelf.

Cheers GMB

looking at the new jaycar catalogue (i love it ) they have sound deander new and improved .
unsure what you need, ebcause you can get
"Sound deadner acousitc sound absorbing deadning material" (2x330mmsquare $26.95)
"Heavy Duty sound barrier absorbing/damping material"675(l)x330(w)x6mm thick for $18.50 and "Sound barrier damping material"700x330x2.3mm thick for $11.25

What would be needed, the acoustic deadner and the damping material?? Is jaycar that good compared to dynmat etc.

jaycar sound deadening does not have an adhesive side to it from memory...and so you would have to go to the hardware store and buy Pressure Sensitive Adhesive, same stuff used for flooring and such...

just too messy and tedious for my liking but I would imagine if you do it right it would acheive similar sound deadening effects as the other well known products

I believe the first one has an adhesive surface and is similiar to the Dynamat and Flashtac type products (foil with tar like substance).

Whereas the thicker stuff does not have any adhesive. And is slightly different than Dynamat etc, looking at the website it's kinda like vinyl impregnanted with Barium for weight. The $18.50 one has a rubber foam attached too.

i used some of the adhesive backed SD from jaycar, its ok, seems a bit thin to me, ive also used Stinger roadkill, id go stinger over the Jaycar stuff any day.

wow, i cut out pieces of mdf and stuck it in the service hols with tape, havnt used sound deadener or anything and the speakers sound at least twice as good! only cost me $10 aswell, for all you people without the money to buy sound deadener i recommend you do that.

another method is to resin coat your mdf so it doen't warp with water and use urethane to hold them in place, that way if you ever need to access the holes you can just cut the urethane with a blade.

Just to note, i use 20sqft of stinger expert roadkill on the front doors of VT-VZ Commodores. they go hard

Great tutorial, followed it today to do my EA falcon doors.

3 sheets of Dynamat Xtreme (Door Kit) managed to do most of the inside of the two doors. Wondering what to do with the left over sheet - should I open up the doors again and do the inside surface of the outer skin of the door? Or perhaps do some more to the inside of the trims? hmmmn.....

Thin aluminium sheeting can be used in place of MDF.

i'd go for a 0.060" aluminium sheet jsut to be sure. on service holes it shouldn't flex unless they are big.

Rhyso

Just another note. The edges of any thin sheet metal can be very sharp, so be careful. Also, that urethane idea is gold, pity i didnt think of it

I'm going to re-do all my service holes at some stage, i've been worrying too much about moisture-take up of mdf. I dont think i sufficiently sealed my MDF before i installed it.

Ideally, you should paint MDF or plywood to seal it from moisture... Aluminium doesn't have that problem.

Thank u for the well written, and v humourous tutorial LOL , im a absolute beginner *least when it comes to car audio*, and this has helped out a lot.

Infact this entire forum is pretty kick ass!. B)

I am about to attempt to do the sound deadening on my doors tomorrow. Ive bought a dynamat extreme bulk pack which should definately be enough, but the only thing is i went down to bunnings to try and find the wax + grease remover and couldnt find any.

Where can you buy it?!

Im going to check out autobarn or repco tomorrow as i would assume they might have it. I'll let ya know how it performs

I bought mine from K-Mart

Bunnings usually has it in the solvents section.
Repco has it.
Other hardware stores have it.

i went to bunnings and bought a large roll of flash tack it not actlly attache dto teh roll liek tape is it, u unroll it an dthen peel teh backing off, i found no heat needed, but i say get 2 rolls ($30 each) tey even have smaller , skinner ones) as u the time i done teh outer skin on the 2nd door i was running lo oh and wer eteh holes wer ei just went right over it with sound deadner and abitt of gaffer tae.

how ever it was liek impossible for me to get a good layer inside the door but it will do.
i will buy 2 more rolls and do all the boot. still havent tested speake yet as teh suppled cable is about 1m 2 short ond i couldn't get the power wire to the boot stupid fire wall grrr lol

dont cover the water drain holes. you NEED them. Else your door will become a rusty mess after a while.

What car is it ? there should be existing rubber grommets in the firewall where the engine, lights, etc wires go through. Follow the engine loom to see where it goes through. Also check inside the wheel wells.

its an ef falcon sedan
tthe grommit is an wedge sup to the upper left of my brake booster i was not abl eto get a 4mm draw wire in there.
i havea large netal palte wewr eteh steering goe sthru i will drill taht.

i did not do teh bottom o fteh doors for that reason i and going to use thin sheets of foam in there to insulate it as well as to make teh space smaller

What is most beneficial - sound deadening the inside of the doors, the outer skin, or the actual door skin itself?

In the tutorial where it says to deaden the inside of the door, you're not talking about the section where plastic "vapour shield" originally was right?

Thanks

here is my first attempt at sound deadning
i used
Septone wax and grease remover
Septone Body Deadner (4L)
Jaycar bitchumen bases sound deadner
3mm MDF for doors, and duct tape

any ideas or tips would be much appreciated!!!!

here are some pics

looks alright. you can put foam between the door trim and the metal too to absorb some rattles.

I would also like to know the answer to this....Cos i am about to start my sound deadening exercise tomorow!

depends on why your deadening. Road noise? speaker performance? That nice "thud" door sound?

Road noise, outer skin.
Speaker performance, inner skin (metal panel with holes in it) + seal over the holes with MDF, perspex, whatever that solid and not too flexible

Going crazy : Deaden outer skin, deaden inner skin, seal inner skin, Deaden door trim, putting foam on the inner skin that sandwiches down nice and tight, and beading the edge of the door trim with silicone or closed cell foam.

When it comes to deadening the boot, where should i actually put the deadening?
Just take out everything and slay down deadening on anything that even remotely looks like metal or?

Just like to say that before reading this tutorial i had not a friggin clue how to sound deaden my doors nor did I know what the purpose of it was.
But i just copied most of this procedure and it had a huge affect on the performance of my new Focal splits, so cheers

Tim

This is my dead drivers door.

Thats a layer of Stinger Expert Roadkill and then a layer of G-Spot paint on both the inner and outer skins.
The paint was also used to get some tricky areas inside the door.
Behind the speaker is a Dynamat Dynaxorb panel , half above, half below that reinforcement bar

The services holes have been sealed with duct tape and 3mm mdf wood. These then have the stinger sheeting and the paint on top

The wooden baffle for the speaker is sealed with black enamel paint and has black Sikaflex sealant adhesive sandwidged between it and the metal , and then screwed down. I also ran it around the edge to seal and absorb vibrations

The back of the door trim ( no pics, sorry ) has been painted with Soundoff paint and has had foam rubber glued to it to absorb rattles etc.
I used a foam bed overlay from Clark Rubber - its fairly firm, has the bumpy surface like accousitc panels, and is relatively cheap

The lock rods have been wrapped in Duct Tape ( because it was heavier than electrical tape ) and the wiring tidied up and wrapped in thin foam just in case

Unfortunately I cannot seal that large hole with the rods.
My door has a large pocket with a hinged lid. When closed, the hinge protrudes into that hole.
Of course I didnt realise this until the door was done so I had to cut off the deadening that I'd put over that hole.

great post, I am definitely inspired to do this ASAP.
I have a few more questions though,

1) How thick is a layer of sound deadening (Stinger extreme)? My door cards are pretty much flat against the inner door skin, so adding 5mm or so thickness would be a big problem.

2) so are the (fairly expensive) sound diffuser panels behind the speaker magnet necessary after deadening the inner and outer skins?

cheers

1) The sound deadening sheets are maybe 3mm thick I think. Using the roller flattens it down a bit too.

2) Not necessary - a few people Ive asked have said they didnt notice the difference. I figured I'd use them anyway.
If you dont want to use the panels and you have SD paint handy, you can dab with a brush to give the rough surface ( like u can see on the reinforcement bar in the first pic ). This should avoid reflecting waves to some extent.

that $30 on the super cheap sound deadning paint was some of the best money ive spent

ive sound deadened the inside of my doors, the skins, and my bootlid completly, and still have 2L left.

really does make a difference, and if your a tightass like mwah, the suepr cheap one is pretty good i reckon.

I assume when deadening doors it should be avoided laying deadening over the wires that run across the door?

Correct. Just makes it a pain in the ass later on if somethign does go wrong. If you find something rattling against the wires (very unlikely) just wrap the affected area in duct/electricians tape. Dont stick the wires under the SD

nice tut champ, my doors are sounding a lot better now with next to no rattles and my doors have a thud to them
tanks
jaz

tufftr... so all thats needed to cheaply deaden the doors is septone body deadner from supercheap?? just the tin in the first pic??

going by your last comment i assume so but you also said you bought Jaycar bitchumen bases sound deadner , so what did you use this for and what is it exactly and how much??

When you used the paint deadener on your boot lid...didn't it all drip down?

I am in need of deadening my boot lid as that is where it is flexing, i have been quoted $130.00 imcluding installation by a professional for the dynamat stuff.

But for $30 that sounds good =) will it be better or worst than the $130 method with proper install not me.

Whats the advantages and dis-advantages ?

Thanks

-Eddie

About to do my doors and boot soon. Boot shouldn't be a problem, however with my doors I have a few questions;

1. The metal rods that connect to the switch to the lock and in my case, connect to an actuator for the central locking). Do I have to remove them? I'm not particularly confortable with removing them, but is it okay if I merely work around them?
2. What about inside the shell of the door, that you can't see? Do you deaden that aswell? It obvious from the tutorial, you deaden the inside of the skin, the outter part of the door shell, but in regards to inside the shell, what do you do? Do you just apply the SD to the back wall of the shell?

Thanks

Cal16V - I did it on the cheap side, i should of put Some foam in there aswell behind the trim but i havent had time yet...Also i should of used dynamat....the Jaycar stuff isnt very good at sticking..

bass pounding dood - I opened my bootlid, manually closed it so the car thought it was shut layed a sheet down and let it dry for two days, the thing does not rattle 1 iota...just make sure you get some gap sealer and seal all the gaps first aswell!

bangers - i just painted anywhere my hand could reach, i really should of done 2 coats but we had to drive the car a lot and quite frankly it stunk like crap. You will be able to get to most places as you will find a way somehow of getting your hand there...trust me!

overall for the $30 or $40 the tin was i think its great value....i mean i did my bootlid with only this and foam and there are no rattles!

But as for the stick on SD i wouldnt recommend the jaycar stuff, i spent $70 for 2 doors and think for a little extra i could of got the dynamat

Hey fellas, after reading this tutorial i'm looking at sound deadening my doors. I've got a few dumb questions and things i need clarified first but. Ok... to begin with, i'm confused about some of the terminologies - inner door trim, outer door trim, actual door trim??? I've looked inside my doors before when i've been checking out those wonderful VS commodore stock speakers, so i have an idea of what it all looks like in there at least.

Let me know if this is correct:
Outer door trim = the thing you remove first, the part you see from the inside of the car when it's on, the solid plastic part that has a fabric section and map pocket and all other sort of things like that?

Actual door trim = that thin piece of plastic that sits between the nice door trim piece you see with the map pocket and fabric section and everything and the inner metal of the door? It's held on with clips or something yeah?

Inner door trim = the metal of the door that is revealed after removing both the nice door trim piece with the map pocket and fabric section and all that jazz and also the thin piece of plastic that is held on with like clips. The piece that Marc shows pictures of duct taping MDF too.... is this it?

Ok... so does all this sound right or am i completely off track? Is the door supposed to be pretty much comprised of 3 layers?

My other question was that i've seen products like the Dynamat Extreme door kits, and i see they state for example enough sound deadening to do 2 doors with. Is this assuming your sound deadening just the inner metal of the door or also the outer door trim and everything that was stated in Marc's tutorial?

So if i was to follow all the steps to sound deaden my doors as are stated in teh tutorial, would it be correct to say i'd have to have a layer of sound deadening on each of hte following:

a) the metal piece of the door inside the car
b) the nice solid plastic door piece which is what you actually see from the inside of the car when the door is in tact and all put back together
c) both sides of the thin sheet of plastic that is held inside the door with clips? (or just one side or what).

Excuse the stupidity, i'm new to car audio, but i'm getting there

Cheers, Bryce.

Door trim, the plastic part you see from the interior.

Outer skin. When your sitting in the car, the outer skin is the furthest piece of sheetmetal away from you. its a solid sheet.
The other side of this sheet, is the paint on the outside of your car

Inner skin. This is the sheet metal, with access holes in it, where your speakers and/or things like window winders/door locks mount. May be plastic in your car.

Inner skin is what you seal off holes in with MDF.

Bare minimum...seal those access holes with mdf, and duct tape over it. Apply sd directly around and behind the speaker.

"regular" treatment. All of the above, except first you Solidly clean down outer skin, deaden as much of is as you can while retaining even coverage. You do this first because obviously you cant reach through the access holes when they are sealed over.
Then you apply even coverage of SD across all the sealed access holes on the inner skin.

"overkill" treatment. All of the above, with the addition of squares of foam between the inner skin and the door trim, so the trim clips on snugly. Also, perhaps multiple layers of SD on "preferably" the inner skin, and possibly the outer skin.
Also, sound dissapation tiles behind the speakers.
Also, sound deadening PAINT on the back of the door trim. Sheeted SD wont stick reliably over time to plastic door trims, in my experience, hence the usage of the foam and the paint to prevent that crappy plastic from vibrating and destroying all your hard work.

was just wondering

does anyone here sound deaden the window mechanisms ?

i have 'overkill' treatment as described above.
Something inside the door buzzes - it drives me nuts.

could it be the electric window ?
is there anything I can do and still keep it fully functional.

I had a buzz
it was the door trim, where it's two parts were joined together

grrr

mine is a single-piece trim

but you've made me think and I'll check the switches to see if thats it.
and also wrap the lock rods on the inside of the door.

i havnt even added sub yet

dogo, old trick is to use a stethoscope, with a needle ended attachement. You can really pinpoint sounds then, while the musics playing. If it IS the window mech, then its going to rattle without the door trim on, so you may as well take it off.

Basically, any surface that touches another surface, put duct tape on it, if you can, or something like that

thanks liquidity, found your explanation very helpful. Ok so i now know what the door trim, the outerskin and the innerskin are. One more question, what about the thin moulded piece of ABS plastic? it sort of clips into the innerskin. Should this be sound deadened too? If so, just one side or both? Cheers.

Not to stray from the topic too far, anyone has any idea how to deaden the firewall? Do you do it via the driver and passenger footwells, or do we do it via the firewall behind the engine? Much appreciated...

Firewalls a fairly solid piece of metal usually. You'd probably be best off, for safety (fireproofness) stripping back the dash, deadening, and contact adhesive-ing on some sound absorbing carpet underlay.

Waste of time unless EVERYTHING else is done though, in my opinion. You'd be much better off using that time to take all your wheels off, and chuck a few layers of nice heavy tar on very well cleaned wheel wells.