I have many comments made by dealers regarding the price points of new products, I would like to get some feed back from the memebers.

What would you consider as a fair and reasonable price for a D Class Sub amp 400 RMS @ 4 ohm / 1000 @ 1 ohm?

$250-$300 for a common brand name (Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, MTX, Clarion, JVC)

$500-$650 for a boutique brand (PPI, Zapco, Focal, Sony? )

couldnt agree more except for the Sony being a "Boutique" amp lol

Maybe pay up too $850 for a nice Amp

only 400W at 4 ohm is the killer here Phil - a lot of SQ guys run 4 ohm for sub, and like the bigger power. I'd suggest around the $450 or so if it's very tight, less if it loses control of the woofer.

Jaycar mono has similar specs and goes for $399 so id expect it to be more if its a better brand

As many would know Hertz is a seperate brand of / within Elettromedia, Audison, A-Z Audiocomp and Connection Audison being the others.

Recently we released the HP range of amps, which are extremely high power, and run head to head with the USA heavy hitters.

Next year a range called Hertz EP will be released, these will be Italian amps that have been designed to meet the need for an affordable entry level product, but being affordable will NOT mean short cuts of sub standard performance, these will be products that you will be proud to take the back off and display the guts.

What opposition do you see to a $675 odd (The actual and final RRP price is yet to be confirmed) Italian built amp (looks very much like the HP series) that delivers 1k at 1 ohm?

Please we are not talking Sony / Jaycar type budget stuff.

that's not a BAD price, and is a fairly competitive pricing.

But i would say is that I'm not a huge fan of 1k @1ohm amps- and the power they make at 4ohm.

tho i have a 1k@1ohm amp, but i only got it cause it was cheap.

I like regulated powered amps tho

I think anything over $700 and it will struggle to sell, but keep it around the $600-$650 mark and it will be good value I reckon.

Its a bit hard to judge how much as it all depends on quality. Is it going to be a SRX line, or a new VRX ? This would determine how much someone was wanting to pay.

Assuming its for the SRX or similar quality line I would say about $600 would be fair. $700 would be to much looking at the competition. Under $600, and it would sell like hotcakes

This is for the SRx1D I'm assuming Phil?

I'd agree, that the ~$600ish mark would be about reasonable, as you can get similar power cheaper (and more expensive as well). Seems to have some good features built into it, so a bit extra is surely justified.

Though it does depend on how nice you want to be to the consumers

I am pretty sure Phil has mentioned they will be Hertz not Audison and will be a new range below the HP line

I wouldnt pay more than a street price of $450 for it.

1kW @ 1 ohm - big deal. If you need a kW @ 1 ohm then your obviously not concerned by SQ too much so you'll be competeing again the PDX amplifiers for a start... 1.600?

1kW @ 4 ohm would be a totally different story

I guess it depends on whether you want to sell 100, or 10,000 of them Phil. $675 is "ok", but nothing unusual.

Put the crack pipe down!

1000Wrms for under $700, Italian made. I'd say that's a bargain.

Phil

50 to 75cents per watt seems to be a fair price for a good monoblock these days.

1000wrms i would say a fair price is $650 odd if its made by a reputable company

if it was alpine, pioneer, clarion, sony, jaycar. i would pay $400 max

Phil Remember that its only doing 1kW @ 1 ohm ... So one expects roughly 750 - 800watts @ 2ohm. How many people regularly use an amplifier below 2 ohms daily? not too many i would expect - particularly when it comes to SQ guys which im assuming this is directed towards (1kW in SPL isnt going to get you far these days.)

$450 is probably a little light on but 700 no way. Not even for an italian made amplifier. Street price $550 - 580 with an RRP of $650 - 675 maybe...
BUT it would want to be VERY good with loads of onboard features

I do well at least that is I did, until I changed subs for monetary reasons.

so that is at least one, and i am pretty sure there are more out there

I think $675 is a fair price, although I wouldnt complain if you made it $100

I can maybe understand the "SQ" crowd, frown upon 1ohm load on an amp, due to damping factor.

But how much can you notice from "lack of control" of a sub during driving.

Well considering you can already buy 1250 italian watts RMS @ 2 ohm for RRP $799, street price $700 or a bit less, for an amp that makes 1000rms @ 1 ohm, I would expect to pay $600-$700 RRP with a street price in the $500-$600 ($600 is getting high), I would consider that fair, as pointed out the fact that it has to drive 1 ohm to get it's 1000watts kinda leaves it out a bit considering the competion thats out there.

Not all "1000W" amps are the same. You can't compare an Audison to a Jaycar imo.

Phil

Ill back that claim. One certain generic brand thats well advertised and had more power, but was infact worse (both in volume, and quality) then a better built italian brand

Who said we are, I definitely wasnt, as I said you can get 1250 ITALIAN watts @ 2 ohm for $799 RRP so why should a 1000 watts @ 1 ohm be over $700 at most! We arent talking about a VRX here Phil, from what I can gather it's a entry/mid level Hertz amp.

Its not about the control. Its about the compression.

And what's so special about the Italians? Why are they any different to the Germans, or the Yanks, or Aussies or the Chinese? Is italy some special place where they can make things better than anyone else?

If I pay money for something, its because of the Quality levels on the unit, not the country of origin. Italians have hobo's too.

Thats very true Matt! - i know a few...

i think it's because the italians store their watts in old oak barrels in dark, dry basements for years before putting them into their amps...

i think mid-entry level amps, from a reputable brand such as hertz, perhaps $600-$650rrp...i'd certainly not pay more than that
most sq competitors DONT run at 1ohm, so are more interested in 2ohm and 4ohm outputs (sometimes even 8ohms). thats one of the reasons the JL 'slash' and older phoenix gold 'xenon' (i think) amps were so highly regarded - for their regulated power supplies

What Italian made brand is offering 1200 RMS fro $799 ?

There are lots of Italian brands that are not Italian designed or manufactured

European amps tend to be more layback SQ sounding - sort of like F1 cars
USA amps - lots of power not so refined (in many cases not all) - sort of like a Nascar
Chinese amps - Hyundai - Dawoo - go carts.

Phil probably better off asking the retailers (I'm assuming you already have) to see where it will line up against competitors in their stores.

I don't think people walk into a store and say, "I want 1000 Italian watts for $X," they just want 1000 watts. If you can place it within $150-200 of a US or Asian amplifier it may be easier for them to upsell, and take a sale that would otherwise have gone to the US/Asian amplifier.

The last thing (I'd imagine) you'd want to do would be to cannibalise your own sales from existing Hertz HP customers stepping down to this product.

1KW @ 1 Ohm
500W @ 2 Ohm
250W @ 4 Ohm
This is what Ohms law tells me this amplifier should do. If it doesn't then I would be questioning the stated rated output power.
Cheers

D class I beleive the halving the impedance doubling the power rule doesnt work due to the different power supply like it does with A/B amps ProClass

rofls

Saying amps from the U.S. are not refined, then saying European amps are is a big, big call, and a massive generalisation.

I forgot, which amps do you sell ?

You came asking people their opinions, and now your implying that your Italian amps are better than the rest. If you don't agree with the comments, and insist your product is superior then why come ask for opinions in the first place ?

One last thing. The Hertz amp your asking about, where excatly are they made ?

hmmm F1 cars do sound quite porno, but if you have actually heard one up close, they will rape your ears out, laid back.. i think not.



Also F1 power [900hp+] > Nascar power [750hp]



And Chinese amps... Hyundai, Daewoo? You mean Korean?

So I don't believe your analogy works out?


And also aren't Hertz HP amps made in Korea= Hyundai= Chinese amps?

I would hazard a guess that he is referring to Audiosystem

The catch phrase "digital amps" is a misnomer. There are two types:

1. Analog-controlled class D. Switching amplifiers with an analog input signal and an analog control system. Often some degree of feedback error correction is present. {these are most common in car audio, I think}
2. Digitally controlled class D. Amplifiers with a digitally generated control that switches a power stage. No error control is present. Those that do have an error control can be shown to be equivalent to an analog-controlled class D with a DAC in front.

Both use switching power stages and have high power efficiency as their most eye-catching feature, woopie!.

Ohms law still applies. Doesn't it?
I believe it does and any claim otherwise makes me suspect of qouted ratings or at the very least the amplifiers ability to sound right with so much error correcting feed back circuits controlling the rails.
Ya, I know, OLD School but law is law. No?

so RRP around $650 seems ok, with street price a bit lower...

If they're made in Italy and good quality, thats fine.
If they're better than the competiton, and about the same price - even better!!

The problem is that 99% of the people buying these amps don't know the difference between DF20 and DF200+ in an amp, so whatever will sell.

Well thanks to everyone who took the time to read carefully, think intelligently and make a post with constructive comment/s.

Product should start filtering through late Jan 08.

As far as power ratings go we wiill release the full specs at the time we release the product.
I can inform you that the mono block will be strappable and that all power ratings will conform to current industry standards, there will be no smoke and mirror power ratings.

yes but not so simplisitically, as you drop in resistance you increase in amperage. More amperage is more heat the hotter an amp get the less effcient it will be. Show me an amp that doubles its power out put when the load is halved and i will call bs on that.

Orion 225 HCCA
Orion 250 HCCA
Orion 2100 HCCA
No bs

an amp with a good, properly engineered power supply and output stage will double its output for each 1/2 of impedance load.

99% (I love that figure) of amps do not have sufficiently large power supplies to do this.

on average, Kirk is right.

I'm not sure if I should disclose this (all the experts will come out to tell me it's BS or incorrect or ... )
but the new EP Mono block will be:
400 @ 4 ohm W/RMS
750 @ 2 ohm W/RMS
1000 @ 1 ohm W/RMS

Ultim8DTM5 - you were right on with "ask the retailers", we have been discussing the new range with the dealers and without exception they are all very keen to stock the range, they are all telling me what we will be offering is spot on what they want for in product / price point.

To answer the question of where are the Herzt EP amps being made:
The PCB was designed by Elettromedia in Italy to Elettromedia standards.
The first run was made in Italy.
The PCB design is owned by Elettromedia and will not show up in a slightly modified form in any other brand; these amps are not available at the "Off the shelf" Asian suppliers.
Yes the new range will have significant parts being made in Asia under the supervision of Elettromedia to Elettromedia's standards, it was the only method available to produce a product at that price point.

Under international trade rules the products do more than qualify to be classified as made in Italy.

My analogy using the cars was metaphoric and in the words of Peter Garrett "Jocular" to be considered in a jocular fashion, to be discussed as jocular
It was meant to point out that there are differences in sound reproduction between the USA, Europe & Asia.
This is an observation I have made, as have many other industry and non industry people.

Power seems similar to the Focal amp, with a similar price. This new amp looks promising.

Bit curious however how an amp with parts made in other countries (even though its under strict supervision) can be classified as made in Italy.

Anyway, thats a bit off topic.

Find me ANY amp that uses 100% non asian parts.

99% of amps will use capacitors/resistors/transistors/some parts from china/korea/etc....

Honestly Phil I don't understand the purpose of this thread.
You've been in the game long enough to know exactly what the market is like, and that most of CAA/MEA want everything for nothing.

CEA2006?

All Elettromedia products comply and are CEA2006 rated

Good stuff!

I actually saw this a little late, but personally assuming it's of a high standard of quality (i.e. Audison LRx, Zapco Reference, Focal, etc) I would expect a price somewhere around $700 - $1,000 (rrp, give or take) to be quite reasonable.

It seems to be about the usual price range for a high quality amp with that type of output (LRx 1,1k, Zapco Reference 500.1, Focal 1.800, etc).

Sure it's tempting to jump out and say $200, but to be realistic I think the above listed price range is not unreasonable.

Same way an SS Commodore can be labelled "Australian made". The parts are sure as hell not all Australian sourced, however the car is put together in Austrlian production plants and is thus Australian made.

I assume the same would be the case here - doesn't matter where the parts come from, if it's assembled in Italy, it's made in Italy.