In a change to the placement of my drivers, in moving the midrange, and tweets up to the a pillars/dash, and either keeping midbass in the doors, or moving them down into the kickpanels, or floor in the kicks.

to experiment i want to look at a nice smooth pair of tweeters to replace my bostons as main tweets, and ill use the bostons as ambients down low, as they sound good in the floor...

budget wise, around 500 ish...

i do like the sound of morel piccolos.... and the tweeter in the Hertz mille set... but im not sure if they are avaliable serperatly....

i dont want anything to big either ie esotar, supremo...

any other suggestions, things to listen to?

I'll be watching this thread closely as I am in a similar position not sure whether to replace my damaged Dyn tweeter or buy a completely new set of something else. Decisions Decisions...

Ive heard a few tweeters, so here I go. First of all, I believe the Supremo is over-rated for what it is. Im prepared to get flaimed for this, but when listening to other tweeters, the Supremo just dosnt cut it. Few tweeters I like, the Mille aint bad, but, I think is a little over priced. It is available seperate.

The DLS top line tweeter is a very smooth sounding, detailed piece of equpiment. You may think that im saying this just because I run one, but in all honestly, after having my car judged by Rick and Jono, they both seemed to praise the tweeter more than anyother part of my system. So I suppose thats something in itself. Just be carefull if you audition the tweeter as part of the compent sent. The Tweeter has about a 3db senstivity gain on the mid, and using flat crossovers, sounds very bright. Once installed and tuned, this brightness does go away .

However, try to have a listen to the new Seas range. Not sure of the exact model number, but it is their top of the line, and is about $500. This tweeter really impressed me, it was smooth and just plain nice. Detail may of lacked a bit, however ill reserve that final judgment to once the speaker set I listened to is 100% broken in.

So to fix your staging and imaging problems with the original speakers, you're going to throw more speakers at it?

more IS better isnt it ~thematt~? lol

Eton A1 tweets are very, VERY nice

I recommmend using the smallest dome/cone diameter tweeters you can get or possible ribbon drivers.
Have a think about these.
LCY100K
Size 84mm
VC 38mm sq
Type Ribbon
dB @ 2.8V 96 W
Maximum 150 watts
Inductance (z) 12
Fs 7K



If you believe this mantra you would be using a single monophonic centre only. IE less drivers.

Perhaps you suspect array's are not useful? I am sure at the next outdoor concert you will advise them to use much less speakers.

Point
Use the minimum amount of gear to get the job done.
Using 3 way's over two ways in a car makes sense, unless your listening is done in a driveway. A certain level of SPL and a useful impulse response requires a known amount of drivers.

I would prefer to have a tweeter crossover over before the 2.5 KHz surround step response, and this normally accomplished with a tweeter of 50 mm plus cone diameter and an ambient tweeter to handle the inevitable poor impulse response from 10 KHz and up.

Flame 1- Ar3nbe.
Supremos are hardly overrated, they are an amazing sounding speaker for the money.

You should really consider them trism. as you are, they are butter dripping from the knife smooth..

Well that is the beauty of car audio and audio in general, people can buy and enjoy what ever they like be it good or bad in the eyes and opinions of the masses.

The Seas speakers for what it is worth are very good speakers and certainly something to be considered along with the likes of Morel & Dyn.

I will say this to say in one breath a speaker was smooth and just plain nice and in the next breath that it lacked detail is weird.

I am sure the Seas speakers like Morel require a run in period, and my only suggestion would be to reserve any comment until you have the chance to review them after being run ?

I believe a speaker can be smooth, and however lack detail. Smoothness has more to be with frequency response, a nice flatish speaker with no massive peaks or dips will tend to sound smooth ( dosnt mean flat frequency response, just no massive jumps down or up). Detail on the otherhand relates to something a little different.

I also said detail may of lacked a bit, a bit meaning a small amount. And the speakers have had a fair bit of playback on them, perhaps 80 or so hours.

Of course a speaker can be smooth and lack detail. Look at Dyn's old MD100.

Smooth speakers tend more often then not to have a fairly flat response, and then roll off at the top end (last octave). It is a very common behaviour by some of the older silk tweets.

Detail is related more to impulse response and efficiency.

Also, larger dome tweeters with poor off-axis response, can appear smoother with poor detail the further you go off-axis.

Either way, I dont think the original OP should be installing a second set of tweets because he 'likes the sound' of the first set on the floor, but cant image/stage them properly down there. An image wont magically appear because you throw in a second set.

I think dls tweeters are incredibly detailed, but lack "sparkle" and "air" I know they have often been described as dark I have no idea what they truely mean by that, but I agree, they sound very "sinister" (this is from the nobelium range by the way.) I agree with Matt too MD100s roll of at the top end and everything ends up sounding "rounded" or "smooth." They definately lack the detail of the dls tweeters.

If only I could have electrostats in my car, or maybe a nice ribbon.

Back on topic though, apart from my opinions of the tweeters above which I both think are excellent (I don't think I could recommend the MD100 even though I prefer the sound over the DLS.) the Mille tweeter can be bought seperatly but is far more expensive then $500 from what I can remember. If you are after a small form tweeter vifas are good and cheap. There is also plenty of variety from the home audio market too with seas and scanspeak making quite a few tweeters that make for easy car application. Rainbow have a few in the range as well I believe the cal27 and 28? I cant remember model numbers off the top of my head. I also remember thinking quite postively about a tweeter that came with the infinity top of the range car splits. I've also heard the mb quartz q line tweeter sound very nice with a heavy eq.

Thats an interesting way to descrive the Nobelium, and ill tend to agree with you, Detailed, but just missing a little wow factor.

Anyway, I agree with matt. Throwing more speakers may not be the best way about things Trism, but, if you must, or if you want to try something different im all for it

The Vifa tweeters look the goods to, but they are a little larger.

Another mention for the seas lotus new tweets, or perhaps give the lower range dls ones a shot? The iridium 1.1 I found to be a little more lively then the nob range.

Or perhaps even consider the focal gear too?

maybe you just need to put the tweeters in a better position.

http://www.tymphany.com/products_ScanSpeak.html

Thought about a set of ribbons?
Just got a set of ribbons on my home speakers and now I get all detail but maintain listenability.

x 2

Just as many others are suggesting, I'd be looking at some other solution rather then adding ambient tweeters closer to the mids.

Get your tuning and positioning good, and an extra set of tweeters won't be necessary.

Likewise, if your tuning and positioning is bad, then an extra set of tweets won't save it - no matter where they are. You'll situation will likely resemble a dog chasing it's tail.

If you must, then I've been fairly impressed by Oz Matrix, Morel Supremo and Scanspeak tweeters.

Hertz mille I found to be too lacking in the top end.

Seas Reference I've heard a second time and this time they sounded much, much better. Whether this was a result of more running in time (or a result of them being moved into a larger area) I'm not sure, but as a set they sounded much better. As far as the tweeters they actually aren't half bad. Very innofensive - quite well ballanced overall, but a tad soft in the absolute top end. If you need something that won't scream out, they may be a good choice - however if their response varies to that of your current tweeters (which i generally will) then that will create immediate issues in your high frequency response. Best to stick to a second pair of the same tweeter if you can - or again, just stick with the one pair.



Both smoothness and detail can be to some degrees affected by frequency response.

Minimising variations in response over the audible high frequency range (lets say for arguments sake, 3khz - 20khz) will result in that smooth sound you speak of.

Likewise, variations in response can also appear to hurt percieved detail as well. Premature roll-off in response above 15khz (a characteristic of most tweeters) will reduce your percieved detail in the upper frequencies. The result is that your sound will tend to appear somewhat dull, lacking sparkle and dynamics. Detail can also be effected by distortion levels and other factors as well.