Recently Ive started running my front end active off my JL 300/4 amp, running XT25 tweeters in the A pillars, and reusing my old Pioneer TS-C160r drivers up front. I'm very happy with the tweeters, but the pioneer isn't exactly crash hot, so I'm looking for a suitable replacement, hopefuly something that can play decently upto 3khz so I can avoid a 3 way front stage - I'm not against 3 way but I would need another amplifier and at this stage I'm hoping to keep costs down.

Did a search and the Peerless HDS exclusive 8" looks promising and roughly at what I'm looking to spend but what concerns me is that its an 8ohm driver, meaning my amp could only pump about 40wrms into them. Also being an 8" driver I'm concerned whether itd be able to play comfortably upto 2khz even though the graphs Ive seen for it indicate that its easily capable of it.

I have looked into scanspeak but they're a little out of my price range. I don't mind looking through more commonplace stables (DD, Focal etc) but Id rather just by the woofers by themselves to keep cost down to under $300

Your amp is designed to put out the same power into 8ohm as it can into 4ohm.
It will feed it 75wrms, which theoretically is only ~3db louder.

The 300/4 can only regulate its power output to 4 ohm. Below that it acts similiar to regular amps. The manual tells me at 8 ohm it will only put out 38wrms, roughly half the 4ohm output.

3db is only about twice the volume, and being a midbass driver I want plenty of power on tap for those punchy "kicks"

a 3dB change is NOT twice/half the volume....a 10dB increase is perceived to be twice as loud

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31

the 300/4 will be ok at 8 ohm, but not exceptionally loud. my dyn mids (3") are 8 ohm, and work quite ok off the 300/4, but I'm looking at bridging 2 channels to run 150W for the midbass (Dyn MW162 nice woofers)

~Spyne~ - Yeah I mistook thinking that 3db meant twice the volume where its USUALLY just the result of twice the power

austin-towers - very interesting read, this combined with my misconception about SPL seems to be making me lean towards that 8ohm driver

To everyone else, any other suggestions for me to consider? Would a 7" or even 6.5" HDS Peerless work better for my setup?

Have a good look at Image Dynamics XS6's.. I have a pair and they are truly EPIC. They are alittle more than you wanted to spend, but once you listen to the, you will see how worth it they truly are.

While those peerless drivers are very nice ( I use them in my HT mains) they need a proper enclosure, their QTS is far too low to work well in a door, no matter how well you SD it.

It's unfortunate that high quality 4ohm midbass with suitable parameters are so thin on the ground.

Cheers guys. I might have to stick with the pioneers then for the time being it seems. However I am looking at putting an enclosure in my doors by getting tricky with fibreglass, but I have a few other projects that need attention first.

If he intended on running the drivers down to there Fs point then yes the Qts could have a large effect, but if you intend on crossing the driver an octave above it's Fs point such as around 70hz then the Qts of the Peerless drivers isn't that big a issue. Of course running them in an enclosure will help things alot!

<a href="http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/seas/h1288.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/seas/h1288.pdf</a> I'd go with those if you intend on using them as a midrange aswell, these will kick the Peerless all over the place for midbass (almost double the xmax) if you did intend on going 3 way I would recommend the metal cone version (L22RNX) but it is quite difficult to use in a 2 way as it has terrible cone resonance issue higher up but it is known as one of the most articulate and highest output drivers around unless you spend probably 3 times it's price.

So I think you are probably better saving up actually and just going 3 way when you can afford it and get drivers more suited specifically to the task at hand aka L22RNX midbass, TBA midrange, XT25 tweeter.

Another option as a cheapish upgrade would be these http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=8181, http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...products_id=823, these should give you a massive midbass improvement over your pioneer's and the ER version is known for excellant midrange, and don't worry about the roughness of it's Freq Response compared to the Peerless drivers as it's simply a case of different measurement techniques, plus I have a feeling Peerless use a smoothed graph. I intend on pulling out my DLS UR midbass drivers to replace with the metal cone version so it should give you an idea of my confidence in these drivers.

Of course if you feel more comfortable with something a bit more car related you wouldnt go wrong with the ID mids as Tegboy recommended as the ID mids have always been known for great performance.

Luke

Luke352 - Saving up for a potential 3 way isnt completely out of the question, but I can't see it happening anytime soon, although a midbass driver that would really well in a 3 way from stage but still decently in a 2 way front stage would save trouble later on down the track. BTW I can't get 2 of those latter links to work

I just recently noticed the DDW6.5 from digital designs. True theyre a bit more than I had intended on spending but it doesn't look like a decent 4 ohm driver isn't going to be had cheaply. The DD seems to have the wide bandwidth and excursion to fit perfectly, but Id like to hear from anyone with experience with these drivers first.

Also with my 2 way although I have HP my tweeters and LP my woofer, the woofer doesnt have any higher frequency cutoff, so where I have the tweeter coming on from around 3khz the woofer is still playing as well (probably not too well though), would this negatively affect my sound? Is there a way to both LP AND HP my midbasses?

Here try these ones <a href="http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/seas/H1215.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/seas/H1215.pdf</a>

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/h1456.pdf

These are available from the Aussie importer ( http://www.aranmaracoustics.com.au/index.html ) for a little over $100 per driver, and both should keep up with a DDW6.5.





Which amp and HU are you using? There may be a way.

Some 7" reviews http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showth...;highlight=seas

Luke352 - Those have some of the most excursion Ive seen out just small drivers, and for the price I can't argue with that. Cheers they might be perfect.

The headunit and amp I'm using is an Alpine IVA-w200e and JL audio 300/4. The Alpine has VERY little tunability, Ive yet to mate it with a PXA-H701 which is still on the do get list. The JLs onboard crossovers are what Im using at the moment.

Anyone tried the above seas drivers Luke352 mentioned? Ive heard of seas and know theyre a good brand, but Ive yet to hear of anyone using these drivers.

Thats a HP on both, your cutting out anything below 3k for your tweeters and if I'm reading that right your running your woofers with no high freq cut (which would be a low pass), so your probably cutting it around 60-80hz allowing everything above that through so another HP, did that make sense, may be worth checking all your settings again, it could be as simple as a setting mix up which isnt allowing your mids to perform as they should.


I doubt anyone on here will have experience with those drivers as they are actually diy market/home audio market drivers, but they will work fine in a car enviroment, but if you search that site I linked you'll find lots of reviews on Seas mids.

Luke

p.s. I 'm still looking at your amp and HU specs.

You may have to run the mids high passed (no high freg cut) or you could even run them low passed (no low freq cut) as the seas will handle playing through to subbass without any mechanical issues, whereas up high they do have some nasty looking peaks. A simple solution would be to get a simple Electronic Crossover to put in your RCA run, you should be able to pick one up for about $100 2nd hand somewhere.

I hope your going to bring this along to a CAA/MEASQ comp next year!

LOL dunno about that, when it comes to SQ I'm only just getting started and have very forgiving ears, plus my stereo components aren't exactly anything special. However I might come along to some comps to check out just what people are doing and how it sounds.
As for whether to use a high or a low pass, they each have their own issues. If I let it play too low it will really affect its power handling and could get muddy trying to play sub bass frequencies, whereas I don't want it playing higher than say 3khz especially if its gonna have some nasty peaks.
To try and aid some decent flat response upto 3khz I think I'll need to make custom speaker pods up front. The current setup has the speakers aimed only slightly upwards, and about 1/3 of the speaker is completely covered (and the factory plastic grill aint too crash hot either).

you can get 'almost' acceptable performance from the Pioneer woofers, but only with a lot of EQ which introduces it's own problems. Definitely worth looking at something better once you have the mounting arrangements sorted.

Well after doing my A pillars (2nd ever fibreglassing) I'm feeling really confident about making up some custom door pods, lucky I have VT front doors and door trims lying around here to experiment on.

Ive seen a fair few custom door pods in VT onwards commodores, but they all just seem to be a fancy surround to remove the factory mesh, but still utilising the actual pods behind the trim. Ive been thinking of making both, to bring the speakers forwards and angle them alot higher. In all the frequency graphs for these drivers they say 0, 30 and 60 degress, Im assuming this means how far off axis they aim at you and that ideally if I want higher frequency response I should aim them directly at me (not gonna happen, but 30 degrees or so should be do-able)

For this to work the driver needs to be 6.5" after some measuring so I think the Seas is the way to go, but I'll make the pods up first asap

btw just checked out the Seas W18NX001, thats one damn fine looking driver. Any idea what the RRP would be? Seems to get good reviews too

Well I just checked the Aussie Price List I have here (but it is a few months old) and it doesnt list the NX model but it does list the EX model $269 AUD excl GST but the NX and EX gennerally sell for almost the same price, so say $265 x 2 = $530 + GST = $583 + post and I can see it being a little over $600 for the pair.

Good ol CA18RNX ought to do it

How about a pair of Seas CW21EX001 8"? I know of some that maybe for sale soon

Have you got a link to any info regarding that drive cosworthpower? To be useable it needs to be able to play well upto 3khz

http://www.madisound.com/seas/L0011.html

hope that helps

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l173/barnz008/P1011531.jpg

heres a pic of what they look like

That is nearly PERFECT for me. Fairly high freqency response, 4 ohm VC is a great bonus, plus it looks like it would provide a great midbass kick. At 8" naturally some custom work would be required to fit them but considering thats the plan regardless of what size driver Id use its a moot point.