Hi, this thread is going to probably be very subjective to what people like in a car. But thats great! I like input and listening to what people have experianced, hence I'm asking the MEA crew for their opinion. I aim to be in the market for a different car in the new year. Whilst I should probably buy a car that suits the type of driving I do, rather than aim for something that suits SQ audio. I did want to consider this as one of the deciding factors. I used to install car audio several years back, but I know things have changed. I'm making a small personal return to it.

Things I would like from the car:
- Within the $8ooo. to $30ooo. price range.
- Be relatively easy to live with
- hatch or sedan (manual pref)
- have a resonable reliability history
- Prefer a local delivered model, no grey imports
- Aim for ease of use/installation/drive ability, over straight line performance.

I listen to a large variety of music but mainly original artists, and have an Energy, Yamaha, Rotel & H.&K. home audio set up that I do most of my listening from. Mostly its all on original CD's. Past cars that I owned or have had regular access to include, Peugeot 306-S16, Peugeot 206 GTi, Nissan Pulsar (x2 N13, N14), Subaru WRX, Holden HQ, Alfa Romeo GT, Holden VK Calais, Ford XF Ghia and currently drive a 95 Nissan Bluebird (late model). Most of which I would say are NOT the most ideal SQ platforms.

Sooo, what I'm asking from the MEA gang is to list a model/brand (& why) of a car that you think suits my criteria and is a solid SQ platform to work from. Thanks for your input . - Chris

something with a FLAT, deep dash.
doors which will allow installation of mid-woofers high and forward of the listening position (or alternatively, with large kick panel areas to allow a good enclosure to be made for the mids down there)
something solidly built, to reduce road noise and rattles
a large'ish boot so u can fit all ur gear in there (sub and amps) and still use the thing to store luggage/shopping

oh, and this is in the wrong section too

From what I have seen in SQ results, 4x4's do well (shallow windscreen angle, but large screen), deeper dash, and overall bigger width etc.
Alternatively, from passenger sedans, the Falcons pretty much from EA onwards do well.

Any model/brand that you can recommend??


Sorry, were should it go?


Thanks Marc,
hmm, not keen on 4x4's. But I can understand how screen, and overall width would allow for better staging etc.
Shame I don't want a large car either... hmm.

Any other recommendations?

It's not a car of my fancy, but when I was up north I saw the dash of the newer model VW beetles, that dash is huge (looked like 30-45cms). Don't know about the doors or anything, but the dash on those are huge

And a bonus, they are a small car

Thanks Louie, yeah +1 on the "not a car of my fancy" either mate. Frankly I think their hidious. Having said that it does have a deep dash, yet its not a particularly wide car.
Cheers mate.

I've found the Xtrail to be the perfect platform for pretty decent SQ. You should be able to find run-out models with the centre dash assembly for a pretty good price. Or if you went second-hand there are many good cars around for less than 20G. Plus, they're not a big car when you compare them to other 4x4's. More a large family car. Bloody cheap on fuel too...

Check out the pics here...

http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...c=82652&hl=

Wood

Honda Civic has a hugely deep dash and can be had under 30 easy brand spankers.

Mazda 3 also has a fairly deep dash

Most of the newer cars have a deeper dash which i assume is due to curtain airbags and passenger airbags coming from the dash. As a such they all end up with large sloping windscreens too.

Yes, must admit the 'new-car' idea is very tempting. But there is the issue of warranty on something new... hmm. It's a hard life in car audio sometimes, cut or not to cut. Having said that a top end SQ system that doesn't include cutting of ANY holes is also quite an achievement.

I can vouch for the Mazda 3 as I own one. The car does have a nice flat, deep dash. Nice car to drive also. One the best cars I've seen lately, although unfortunately it's out of your budget is the Mazda CX-7, fantastic SQ potential for that one.

Volkswagen Golf is another car to consider...

Our Toyota Yaris Sedan is quite well-shaped for SQ, SWMBO won't let me do the install until the warranty's run out.

Mitsubishi Grandis

what about alan's car?

stock positions, great stage/image.

First time I listened to it, i asked if I could have "that" sound in my car. Fury told me to buy an XR6...


anyway...thats a story from times gone past. now i have a much better system

what about that 'orrible Mitsi Colt? (no apologies to brad)

the Peugeot 307 has a deep dash and large windscreen as with the 407 (although i dont know if used 407's are in your price range) i work for Peugeot so thats why i have listed those models as they stand out as cars that are smallish (307) which have decent boots large windscreens and deep dashes (especially the 407)

Thanks guys. I see small trend here; thats a few of you recommending recreational 4x4's (including Marc's suggestion).
I think I have to have a look at some, but must admit didn't think of it. I find them boring to drive, however a nice SQ system will always make it an easier drive .
Time to hit the car yards this w/end I think and start looking... (tape measure & digital camera in hand).

Does the Yaris have the instrument cluster in the middle? I thought that this would help with the path the sound would take if I ran tweeters in the bottom corners of the A pillar...
Good suggestion thought. I wonder how they are with factory deadning/road noise etc... Thanks PulseR, could you tell me what you think about it from an install POV.

Sorry mate, I don't know alan, can you point a thread or make/model to me. Is it a late model Xr6? Thanks again.
BTW, is there a thread with pics of your Valiant?

Thanks mate, as you can see I have a soft spot for pugs, but as much as I would like to return to Pugs, I some hesitations. I have driven both cars you have mentioned, but cutting one of them up for an SQ system... I aint so sure. They also have the mux system and their notoriosly noisy (electrically) like all PSA products. The other issue is for some reason the particular plastics/vynils/materials PSA choose to trim their vehicles with don't seem to respond to car audio well. I've learnt this as I've done several late model Pug installs. Nothing a retriming and deadning couldn't help solve.
Having said that, the 407 (spesh the Coupe) is a great car to pilot. The 307 is very quiet inside for a car of that size (I reneted one for several days whilst overseas), but it's nowere near the drivers car the 306 was and the 206 Gti180 is too small and overall interior is of questionable build quality. Thanks for your advice regardless Lieos, I might still end up returning to a pug ( a 406 Coupe would be nice... )

Ford Focus, lovely big smooth dash on the newer models and huge A pillars, and there just a nice car.

Luke

I have to agree with Woody, the Xtrail definately gets my vote.... just think:

Single PLUS a double DIN, gauges in centre of dash, plenty of room in doors, plenty of room in the corners of the dash (factory tweeter locations), plenty of hidey-holes and heaps of room under the seats.

Its on top of the list for my next car when i finally retire the Jeep

Thanks broadz. hmm... thats a few suggestions for these smaller 4x4's. With particulars for the Nissna X-trail. I will def have a look at one in the next few weeks.

I was also consider the 4th generation (thats 93-96) Honda Prelude. Anybody have any experiance with these? Or care for some input on it. I always found most older Hondas relatively straight forward to install in. Recently found the ride in a near stock one to be relatively comfortable & road noise was minimal.

Anyone else suggest a car/model?
Thanks

Not sure if you like the car or not, but a Honda Jazz is a pretty good environment for a car setup.

Because of the van-like shape, the pillars are large and WAY forward of the driver. Easilly enough room for a large format tweeter (i.e. Supremo, Scanspeak, Vifa) plus a 4" midrange in the pillars, which would allow for brilliant depth and very good height. They also have a very impressive boot for their size, as well as good ergonomics (for head unit positioning) and overall are fairly well insulated for an econocar.

From an auto perspective, they have probably the best interior-space-to-exterior-size ratio I've seen, are extremely economical, and are pretty gutsy for an econocar (in 1.5L VTi form). Plus you have Honda reliability and quality. Negatives? From all reports they don't handle or ride anything special, and the van-like shape doesn't really result in thrilling looks.

Also got a lift in a Honda Oddsey (around 99 model) a couple of months back, and these are from memory even better. The pillars are SO far forward of the dash and driver that it's just insane. Almost enough space in there to fit a set of small bookshelves! Dash is also nice and flat (horizontally) with not too many bumps and dips, and you sit nice and high in respect to the dash, so if you can get the stage at eye level, it'll be well above the dash (good for height judging). The more forward speaker position would also help to reduce the change in distance between the left and right speakers, which should also help a little with imaging and width.

If I had to pick a car as a pure sound project (all else ignored) then it'd be one of those Oddysey's out of the cars I've been in so far. However, It's not my type of car personally!

You must to have read my mind muzzy66 ... I was actually in the honda car yards and that exactly what I thought when I did see the Oddysey! The new model is even better. Just as you mentioned they seem like a great car audio project vehicle. I really don't ming MPV's. Sure its not a sports car but its roomy and keeps up with traffic, no issues. Plus all the things you mentioned. Just like the Mitsubishi Grandis that ultimat8DTM5 mentioned, thier in the same genre. - Chris

ps, thanks for the input too.

A Zafira is a good one. I have been compete in it for 3 years never fail to get first place. the new subaru wrx is a good one too. I am getting it for EMMA RACING. might be a good idea if you can wait and start with me. then you I can share tip and trick with you.

basically any car will sound if your installer know what he is doing

Just don't get a Toyota Sera, there is f*** all boot space

Subaru Outback or GT Forester (or XT later)...nice to drive. 2004 on Outback has a PITA integrated sound system...but if you get one cheap enough, spend the money on a cut and shut install! Big dash, factory splits...goes and goes around corners too! Well built and pretty quiet, so maybe not so expensive to deaden. Bit squeezy for 5 adults though. Tyres were expensive (oddball size 215,55,17), so was servicing...but what new car isn't? Most of the Outbacks would have been owned by older folk too...not so caned!

Thanks for the suggestion golf_bht. The Zafira is one that I hadn't considered, its unfortunate that being a rebadged Daewoo means that there is a question over its build quality. Also Holden (the importer/seller) plan to drop it from it sales line... shame
The one down side with subarus is x3 things; poor insurance rating, they don't have window sills (easy break and enter, poor at holding glass still.) and they have noisy engines... plus their ugly , although this is subjective . You do get alot of car/technology/peformance for your $$ though. Not my choice unfortunately.

I will be installing myself. I used to install for money, but left the trade years ago. Hence I was looking to get back in on a personal level. Thanks again.

, is there any factory manual ones?

hmm... we've had subarus in the family before. Theres the 3 big let downs that I posted above (insurance, easy to break in, noisy mechanical engine) which make it a non appealing choice for me. True the GT has a high level of performace, but thats not what I'm after. (when I want performance I go ride my motorbike, 99% of cars are put to shame.)
Thanks for the advice regardless adamg . This is getting tuff.

im pretty sure the zafirais not a Daewoo instead its from Vaxhuall as it was based on the astra which is also a Vaxhuall so i dont see build quality as an issue are you sure your getting mixed up wth the captiva which is a totally different car.

Late model Toyota Tarago has the deepest dash, centre instrument cluster and absolutely massive spilt A-pillars. The little 1/4 glass panel could be blacked out and easily house a 4'or 5" midrange pod. Oh and also makes a good family wagon

The Zafira is part of the GM global family of brands. Panels are/were Vaxhaul stamped, but the car is still assembled in Korea (Daewoo) & the chassis is Daewoo (yes just like the Astra). Dont forget GM, Chev, Holden, Vauxhaull, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Hummer, Opel, Pontiac, SAAB, Saturn etc. are all the one company now.... the only Holden that is locally built is the commodore. http://www.gm.com/corporate/ look there and look at the All GM sites banner.
Interestingly SAAB sales have increased & apparently so has customer satisfaction. hmm... Thanks for the advice anyway mate .

I know its kinda laughable but if I could find a late Honda Oddesy, it just like the Tarago inside.I think it would be great... I really dont care about speed or drop dead gorgeous looks. Most road cars are pretty boring and underperforming in my book. So commuter cars like the Tarago & oddesy aren't that bad. Really. Thanks for the tip mate...

have a look at the new model lancer heaps of room in boot, dash needs to be modded abit but greater car compared to previous yrs...

we have mini cooper s superchargesd model its an sq car sound fafarkintastic and its qiuckasfuk too 6 speed manual you could put the back seats down or take em out for a nice size install or leave it but dont expect to carry many freainds with you

no sh!t Thats why I bought one

Other good SQ cars:-

Volkswagen Bora
Honda Accord 90-2000 shape
Volvo S70
Lexux IS200/300
Vauxhall Vectra (sold as Holden over here) - current shape
Mercedes Benz W124 E class
Mercedes Benz W140 S class
Honda Legend KA9 series - 96-2003

If I had my pick of cars to install a system into.....would have to be a Merc W124 E class. They are bank vaults and ask any Benz fan which series had the best build quality they will all point to this model. It will last forever.

Why would you say the Bora and IS200/300?

I've been in both and while they are well put together cars, they don't seem to stand out to me as anything special as far as audio environments go. On the plus side they are well put together sedans with resonably roomy boots, but on the other hand the general interior layour (while not bad) doesn't really seem to be anything out of the ordinary.

I dunno about the Bora, but the IS300 is definitely up there with my list of desirable cars for audio.

Bora's aren't too bad acoustically, the biggest problem is the tight constraints in doors/kicks/apillars without hacking things to bits (like metal).
You can fit a pair of 12's in the parcel shelf if you're prepared to do the engineering work.

Zafira is Opel, and the RHD version was manufactured in Thailand. I definately wouldn't say its a bad thing - Honda manufactures their cars there also.

Thanks for the ideas guys. Doing lots of research and looking lots of these cars up. Lexus GS300 was one that looks very good value for money. Some were over $100K when new. Down to mid $20K's now...
I also like the look of those W210 Mercs... hmm.