Hi all,

I have a Soundstream TRA960.4 currently powering a set of DDLinear DLX-F177R active, but I would like to upgrade to something better.

I was thinking about a Soundstream REF520.4 (125x4 @ 4ohms), but availability at a good price is scarce. I have been looking around online, and all I can find is either the RF T600-4 or the PDX4.150.

I have heard that the PDXs are slightly average for SQ, and since these are good speakers, I would like an upgrade from the SS Tarantula (TRA960.4 is chinese made soundstream not chunky usa TR stuff).

I was considering a TR500/4 from a dood in the For Sale forum, but it is an extremely big and heavy chunky mofo of an amp, and I would like something sleek, and refined, and preferably new with a warranty.

Specs on the speakers are at the bottom. I did see that the RMS ratings on the speakers (tweets and woofers), are around 40-50w rms. I then thought, if it's RRP is only $719, then how about a 4x75 Focal FP4.75.

Are the focal amps really that good, would it provide me with better SQ than my TRA960.4?

Any other ideas for amps? DLS/Morel/Dyn/Audison/Hertz/Rainbow? unfortunately I don't know much about these brands in terms of amps and pricing.


If someone could shed some light on this, I'm planning for this amp to be a lovely christmas present

Alpine DLX-F177R Specs from Alpine Website

• 3.0cm Ring Shaped Tweeter
• 17cm Multi-layer Hybrid Fibre Cone
• Machine Polished Brass Wave Guide
• Dual Emission Tweeter
• Double-gathered Edge Surround
• Aluminium Diecast Frame
• Nominal Power: 40W RMS - Tweeter
• Nominal Power: 50W RMS - Woofer
• Sensitivity: 89 dB/W.m
• Impedance: 4Ohm

The problem is the DDlinears are not known for having the best midbass in town. Matching them with the pdx would possibly be the worst option possible.
Unfortunately you are going to have to look at the chunky amps because there is a strong correlation to a big amp and grunt - This is if you want to get all the midbass you can out of the DDlinears.

really?

When auditioned, they definetely have a lot more midbass than a Focal K2P setup, they hammer at the moment with the tarantulas, but would like sumthin nicer.

K2P's have outstanding midbass, but it depends greatly on what you like, and how you would like to set them up.

The Focal's have a beautifully ballanced and detailed midbass down to about 100hz, 80hz at a squeeze - below this they drop of very rapidly. They have brilliant midrange and brilliant midbass, but if you ask them to play down into the midbass (i.e. below 80hz) then you will probably be dissapointed, because it's really not what they are built for. K2P's would definately benefit from being run with a higher crossover point (80hz-120hz).

The Alpines I've not heard, but they do have a tendancy to work with high end home audio manufacturers for their high end speaker sets (e.g. F1 Status based on Scanspeak Revelators) and if that's the case with the DD Linear's, their is a very good chance that they will have better bottom end extension then the Focals - however without hearing them for myself I can't say.

No doubt though that the K2P's has one of the best blends between mid-bass and midrange I've heard in a two-way set, so to be better the Alpine's must be very nice

I did audition both, when I was buying, (admittedly the alpines on a sound board, and the K2Ps in Juls' car). I found the K2Ps to be very very nice, but I find that the DDLinear Midbasses are beauutiful, playing up to around 3.5/4kHz, until the Ring Radiator Tweeters kick in around 4kHz,

All this aside, what amp would you recommend? Would the Rockford T600-4 be up to the job (100w x 4), or would the Focal 4.75 be enough? what do you reckon in terms of amps.

Depends how you like your amplifier sound.

The RF power series out of the box, does NOT have a "ruler flat" frequency response.

There is a bump from the 20hz-200hz region then another bump in the 2khz- 20khz? [iirc]

I like the bump at 20hz-200hz, cause i like the added midbass, but I'm not a big fan of the bump in the highs, though some EQ will fix this, from your signature, you have a h701 so you can play around with it.

IMO the RF is a very nice amp, and it's got to be heard, instead of just reading the "facts/theory", due to not having a flat frequency response.

Though the Focal is a nice unit, i doubt you would be disappointed with any of them.

Maybe also add a JL audio 300/4 to the list? and Eclipse XA4000 [though it is slightly larger than the others]

When I heard them they lacked the low-end. I guess it just proves install is the key.
So your DDlinears play from below 100hz to 3.5-4khz, and sounding good all the way through the band. That is crazy.

I think the JL slash that philz pointed out would be nice, I cant comment on the others because I haven't heard them.

DDL's are Jap spec speakers, Aust was the only other country that got them IIRC. As long as you're happy with them, then thats all that matters...

And about PDX being a poor choice, I say to those, PROVE it, dont just say it

Rgds

The PDX's can go quite well, the pro show winner in qld runs all pdx amps, and his system sounds very nice.

other amps worth looking at would be audiosystem, DLS, treo, audison ect. all those level of amps will be fine.

personaly i wouldnt call an amp which has freq peaks, an sq amp.

I wasn't necessarily saying it was a poor choice, but merely a bad combination from my personal experiences, these being - heard the DDlinears and they lacked low-end extention (maybe not the case in spentans install?!), and also personally running the PDX, and changing to another amp I gained a rediculous amount of midbass without touching anything else.

Conclusion - the PDX is quite a good amp, though compared to other amps it lacks midbass (my test PDX to C7). However this could be overcome in the installation.

After much thought, research, and debate I've decided to go with the audio system F4-600

It's rated @ 4 x 145 watts RMS @ 4 ohm, I will be using it to run n my two IDQ twelves and front splits

Do a search and Check out the web sites also recommend the Audison based on other members recommendations

Don't forget that a lot of these amps are power spec underrated so will actually put out up to 30-40% more than stated power if you have good repour with a installer he may pick out a better one for you

My previous Rockford amps "birth certificate" was rated at 2x 100 measured output was 2x 148

One thing to consider is the conditions of the tests.

In many cases, the published specs may be rated at 4ohm, 13.8V and the bith certificate results may be rated at 2ohm, 14.4V.

It may not be the case, but I know with my ARC XXK series amps the birth certificate rates them at 2ohm stereo, rather then 4ohm (13.8V in both cases). They do still outdo the claimed specs, but it's by about 10% rather then the 50% or so it initially seems.



Good chance the less impressive midrange/midbass response on the Focals could be install related- although I'm not familiar with the actual install mentioned so I may be wrong. Lower mid-bass tends to lose presense when installed in car doors, and likewise upper midrange tends to suffer heavilly if mounted off axis (i.e. in car doors) as well.

The Alpine's would have generally sounded stronger in both areas if heard in a demo board, on-axis (the Scan Ring Radiator's work their best on-axis, though I'm not sure if the Alpine ones have the same characteristics).



If true, it is indeed impressive. That said, this would change significantly if moutned heavilly off axis with a heavy roll off beginning probably somewhere around 1.5khz and worsening as frequencies rise.

ok, im thinking of going an A/B amp. Looking into the Focal FP4.75 more deeply, are these a tip top SQ amp? or not really as good as the high end amps.

Also thinking about the Soundstream REF340.4, which according to spec (Damping factor etc), is higher than the Focal. It also has all of the top Soundstream Technologies like RUBI/STACT etc.

What to do, what to do, which other SQ amps are there? looked at Audison, seems to be very expensive (according to RRP List), to something that doesnt spec up that flash.

Could someone recommend a specific amp, rather than brands, cos im not sure ay,

cheers to all, and keep the replies coming.

Neil

Audison LRX 4.5

Focal 4.75

Audiosystem F4-380

These are some amplifiers in the $700-900 range

cool, thanx for that.

u reckon soundstream REF is worth looking at?? or Focal etc are the way to go.

i have a few suppliers in Perth that can do Focal, and I have loyalty to the brand as they make top speakers. BTW, where are their amps made? France or China ?

DLS Reference series perhaps?

The RA40 puts out 4x75w (claimed) for $849rrp and seem like a nicely built amp. Reputation suggets they sound pretty good also, although I lack the experience to confirm.

Price should tell you off the bat where they could be made...

just an example, we sell an Italian brand Sinfoni, their smallest amp (45.2x with onboard xovers which has a power output of 2 x 72wrms @ 4ohms) retails for $990 and is entirely hand made in Italy and carries a 2 year warranty.

Now almost final on the AudioSystem F4-380.

I will be sourcing it from Northfield Moorooka, through Alberts Cannington.

Any other recommendations for a 4 Channel Amp?? The Audison LRx seems too expensive for not much more.

Also, would prefer an Italian made Audiosystem, over a Korean made Focal.

but other suggestions (better than the audiosystem) would be appreciated.

placed new post in edit of previous post.

Dont worry where the amps are made. It means nothing. Sometimes I like to think about it this way. Italian labour = expensive, Chinese labour = much cheaper. So, if one imput cost is so much higher (labour), one might think that they could make up that money by using cheaper parts.

Not saying anything about either brand, but sometimes its important to think of some of the economics behind it. Companies arnt stupid, if one company is facing higher costs with respect to one input, then obviously to make the same profit, something has to suffer.

Anywho, to the question at hand. I personally rate the DLS reference amps, I think they are fantastic. Infact, to my ears (my opinion) they are the best amps I have heard to date in my car.

That said, the Audiosystem amps have a good rep from many and seem to be quality.

hmmm, ok.

Audison is out due to price (RRP $924), DLS is also RRP $849, and is only 4x75w, whereas the 800 dollar audiosystem (made in italy too ), is 4x95w.

More power is always a bonus, and from what most on this forum have mentioned, the Audiosystem is a nice sounding amp.

I will go speak to Adam (HISPL) at Alberts Cannington tomorrow, to sort out a price etc.

actally talk to yanndy at audioart he may be able to help you with a better brand than audio system same company just better give him a call and see what he says

75w - 150w = +3dB
75w - 112.5w = +1.5dB
75w - 93.5w = +0.75dB

i.e.

The additional 20w from the Audiosystem (per channel) will effectively give you a boost of 0.75dB - which would be inaudible without a back to back comparison (and even then, you'd need good ears to pick it). Consider then twe don't know how much each amp varies from it's claimed specs (i.e. it's possible the DLS may be more underrated) and who knows what the actual difference would be?

If it were me, I'd go the DLS without hessitation. It's only $49 more expensive, but in my opinion is better built and far more stylish. DLS also have a very good reputation for performance throughout the world - Audiosystem still seems to be a fairly young brand here, and while initial experiences seem to be good, it's hard to predict how they will go in the long run.

Then again, it's not about me, it's about you - at the end of the day, you are the one that is spending the cash and living with it, so you are the only person that you need to satisfy. If you like the Audiosystem, then go the Audiosystem!

Yo y'all, The DLS RA40, is not in stock in Alberts Myaree (WA), and when Bruce called DLS, they said its going to be an 8week wait

That got me thinking, should I go for the Audiosystem (at around 700 bucks), or Bruce was offering me an MBQuart Premium Amplifier (4x100w), but it is made in China, and also 100 bucks more (799).

What to do, what to do.

Audiosystem FTW

As I said before. Where they are made really has no impact on how they sound. Most speakers are made in asian countries, and yet there a not many issues with them. A quality product, regardless of where its made will be a quality product.

The MB quart amp is different, something I have never personally seen. Not sure how they amps go, but, going from their speaker quality, they shouldnt be to bad.

That said, are you willing to wait ? If not, then that rules out the DLS straight away.

Secondly, are you willing to take a gamble with a different, less tried prduct, or, follow suit and get a proved, and tested quality amp ?

well i dont want to make a 800 dollar error, so dont really wanna take a gamble,

otherwise it seems the Audiosystem is the go

otherwise any1 got any thoughts on the Treo SSX 75.4?

ive only used the audiosystems myself, and would reccomend them, alot of people up here run them and i havnt heard of any trouble with them.

treo will be fine aswell, havnt heard much about the MBQuart amps though

amps at that price point will be made off shore to the country of origin, think about it in euro dollars and see if it adds up

got the Audiosystem F4-380 today, its tiny, less than half the size of the Soundstream Tarantula.

If time permits it should go in on the weekend.

im suprised no-one mentioned the Eclipse XA4000...

Yo Damo, it was mentioned but I was after a Class A/B rather than a Class D.

The Audiosystem's are quite a good amp, MBQ also used to build VERY good amps there QAA series were built proof, but I think the one you listed is one of there new series that has been released since there takeover so I couldnt say what it is like but they did build great amps. Much of a muchness really, pick the one you like the look of I'm sure both amps would serve you well.