I've narrowed the choice down to tchew...

Nakamichi CD700 mkII

or a Clarion HX-D2

Obviously the Clarion contains more onboard tuning, thats not what I'm concerned about. What I want are peoples opinions on which one offers the best overall construction and RAW sound quality. Which basically means the most sonically pure signal being fed to an amplifier

Im thinking the Nak. Anyone agree?

I reckon you'd be hard pressed to pick the difference in a blind AB, espescially in car. I'd go the clarion just for the added extra's

Clarion. And we sell Nak not Clarion, but CD700's an old model now. From the few we've installed and set-up for clients that HX-D2 is a quality piece and was as near as dammit to Alpine's original F#1 CD head-unit SQ wise.

Very different sounds IMO, the nak's sound is very warm andf airy whislt the clarion seems almost sharp in its precision making it a bit clinical.

have you heard both?

FWIW - from your other thread - the HX-D2 is not hard to tune. It's just a time consuming process - but all tuning is like that unless you're looking at auto mic tuned setups. I have no issues with the text only menus - big, bright and easy to read.

As for a comparison - I've only compared my HX-D2 to my Nakamichi TP1200/100MB combo. Can't say I noticed any significant differences when both were run in pure stero mode. However from all the anecdotal evidence I've seen, the TP1200/100MB combo is much more reliable that the CD700/II, and I have no concerns about the reliability of clarions high end units (HX-D2/DRZ9255). My DRX9255 is still going strong 10 years on, and my MX4000L was runnign absolutely mint when I sold it last year - again 10 years old.

Go the full lash.

Alpine DVI-9990 + Alpine PXI-H990

Thats if budget is no problem.
(i can only dream of having those toys)

No, I already have a Phoenix Gold PG-EQ232 which I'm hanging onto. Not interested in the DVI-9990 + PXI combo......hey wait a minute isnt that F#1 status gear you're talking about?

uh-huh,

hence why im dreaming about it

If by raw, you mean by not touching any settings at all, just put in a CD and play, they're equals. But honestly. I dont know of any cars out there that sound excellent, with no adjustments, whether it be head unit, or external processor/eq. GOOD maybe, but not excellent. And who wants a GOOD system when you could have an excellent one? Better to have the tunability and not need it...

Cd 700 II vs the HX-D2 as pure transports?

The HX will sound... brittle is the best word i can put to it.

The nak sounds smooth as butter compared to it.

The Pioneer p90 will sound "smoother" and more "rounded" than the HX and I think its a good middle ground if you can stand the crummy interface.

Go and listen to all of them but if you like the sound that the HX makes, go hunt down a McIntosh MX as its a much more refined version of that sound.

As for the alpine gear. i think i needs to be evaluated as a whole with the EQ units, making it a difference conversation to compare them.

Fair comment there. But you are forgetting I have a Phoenix Gold 30 band EQ232. That with an ultra pure signal fed to it, is all the tuning I'll need

And it looks like I've managed to find a suitable headunit for reasonable money. A fully reconditioned Clarion DRX-9255. Back in the twilight years of IASCA competition in Australia, the 9255 was considered the unit to have. 20 bit D/A converter, high voltage preouts, flawless construction and build quality and as far as looks go, its still sexy as hell.

I would go a Clarion HX... but not for over double what the 9255 will set me back. I'm not made of coin unfortunately.

I've also heard reports that Nakamichi gear isnt made the way it used to be... quality has really deteriorated

I have a hxd2, and I agree with negatron, it can sound somewhat clinical, but I wouldn't have it any other way, I love it, and all it's plentiful features.

OK so by clinical you mean it will play exactly whats on the disc? That would also suggest the HX isnt all that forgiving with bad recordings?

Because thats almost right on the nail with what I'm after.

Whats the sonic signature like? For eg: neutral, warm side of neutral, bright or cold? When I've read reviews of hifi, clinical generally refers to a sound that is neutral.

If I had to rate Alpine for sonics I would say warm side of neutral, and Eclipse would be slightly warmer without being bright. The Eclipse 8454 I used to have offered lots of detail, but would still smooth off gritty sounding recordings - punk for example.

I take it the HXD2 wont do this?

Nice choice - hope it's mint and serves you as well as my DRX9255EX is (10 years on still going strong). Mines in a very low cost install (headunit - 10 watt d class 2 channel amp, vifa components), sounds great for a 10 year old piece of kit, and gets used everyday by my partner.

PS if you want a CD changer for it flick me a PM. Have one in the car audio cupboard collecting dust (will need to supply your own digital cable if you want sonic excellence).

PPS I don't find either the DRZ or DRZ clinical - just nice and precise - but i believe many people opinions will eb based on the type of speakers they using with these units.

just get a Sony!
with a jack-in port on the front for your iPod


haha sorry had to say that. wish i had the coin to be even entering this conversation seriously

This is a very good point I forgot to mention. Check where this cd700 Mk II you have sourced is made and its service history.

The current Nakamichi stuff is a mere shadow of what it used to be and unfortunately the cd700 Mk II lives in the age of such a decline.

there is a rather large difference in build quality from the made in japan ones and the later ones made in malaysia.

having said this the earlier ones are known to have a bit of a weaker loading mechanism that was resolved in the later editions.

Hence the need to look up the service history.

For the record I've had numerous chances to upgrade to newer naks but I've chosen to stick with my cd700 mk I which was (IMO) the last great piece of gear that Nak made before the start of the deline.



Pity you guy's aren't in Adelaide,

I have a mobile ES Sony from the good old days that i've been longing to have a good back to back test with other high end units.

My ears aren't what they used to be (spent time in the Artillery) so I normally I try to get more than one opinion of the sounds...

ive only had the oportunity to hear the Clarion HX-D2 and i can say its an absolutely stunniing unit. This unit has everything you will ever need, 4 way x-over time alignment and eq no need for any other equiment, just some amps and speakers

so the clarion by far and away the best all in one solution ive used and heard.

i do like my alpine 9887 but i feel its not in the same league as the clarion.

slightly o/t; any opinions/tests/ pesonal reviews on..

- Denon Z1

- Becker Mexico Pro

- Pioneer P88

again, for SQ comp.

Mmm... Denon Z1, its meant to be the beez neez with the ability to unearth depth of recording to rival high end home audio cd transports.

Good luck finding one, I like to think that I have a good source of contacts to find rare audio gear and even then i've only ever come across 2, both were going for about high 3k low 4k marks.

The pioneer p88 will make an awesome transport if u can find one in decent nick (a lot of those would need new laser assemblies by now which might make it non viable cost wise.)
But its a fugly unit and lacks many of features / flexibilities that units like the Hx-d2 or the alpine gear will have.

Thanks everyone for their input so far

I need to speak to my contact with the 9255, but its just been sent back to Clarion head office for complete refurbishment so ought to be good as new.

Slowly but surely my systems being pieced together. Might have to update my project thread.

sorry fot jacking your thread Aion...

hmm I have found two with one search. One was $800 us, other was $1700 us buy now. Both flebay quetionables. They do seem rare, but have you heard one? Is it worth the $$, or a modern counterparts better sounding, in you opinon.


Sorry, going by the Pioneer site I understood that this is a current model you can buy new. Or am I missing something? http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/25/121/...88RS/index.html I like the simple straight forward layout of it, fugly perhaps. Simple, for sure.
How does the P88/P90 in your opinion sound compared to the Clarion/Alpine equivalents?
Thanks again.

There was a review on here a while ago of McIntosh/P90 and F1 by Henry Sutrino if I remember. Might be work digging that up for thoughts on how the P90 compares to the top.

It was P9 and a few others in this thread

http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...75&hl=Denon

Thank's Anthony. Helped alot there. hmm lost of research to do now, theres is so few genuine sq headunits in market & even less available to read & study up on. Cheers, regardless.

the_iano, from an owners perspective, the HX-D2 is not that hard to tune. I find the graphs irrelevant - you dont need to see what it sounds like, only hear it All funtions of the HX-D2 can be controlled via the remote (dunno whether the others you're looking at are the same or not) and the menu's aren't that difficult to navigate once you've gotten used to it (I was familiar with mine within a week, and I dont drive daily ) I like the sound, but then I've always been a Clarion boy. I'm not really a fan of Alpine or Nakamichi, but only from a sound point of view - the menus on alpines are pretty good (the NAK menu's are non existent of course ). Someone mentioned the face on the HX-D2 looks cheap. Maybe, but when people look at it and think its a 100 buck unit, they're not thinking about stealing it! It doesn't have a detachable face, which is a downside, but because its not 'blingin', it doesn't get a second look

Hope this give you some useful info!

Tim

I didnt mean the whole face looks cheap, just the very "clicky" cheap buttons (function, <, > etc) Ive still got mine in the WRX and the few people who have looked at buying it asked if ide swap the "stock headunit" for a dvd player one. LOL

Wow, can you PM me the links of those z1's? I might make a play for them coz that's the cheapest i've ever seen them.

I've never head the z1, but the lower models such as R1 and A1 sounded really good, didn't do a back to back test with those units so i can't give more details then them.

As for the P88, i'm familiar with that HU as the P80RS (asian model number)
Link

i've heard good things about this unit and there's a few of the guys on the forum using it. I've only heard it briefly once but not enough to make a comment on it.

Good luck on the HU hunting.

e-bay is making me look like a looser. I can't find the auctions now, sorry. But it is several days later.

i have both the drx9255 and the newer hxd2 (drz9255) either way you can't go wrong
if the refurbished drx9255 is the right price and you don't need the extra tuning or
crossovers of the hxd2 , i would go for the older model

whats wrong with the 8454?

unless you get a bare bones SQ unit you will probably end up paying for a heap of features you dont need.....i think luke linked to a new eclipse unit that had gone back to basics

I have a HX-D2... I've thought about upgrading (to Pioneer P90 combo) and even downgrading it (Pioneer P80 and simplified system) throughout the time I've had it (about a year now) but at the end of the day it's still in my car, and it probably will be until it either dies, or Clarion releases a successor.

I have briefly used HX-D1, F1 Status, Pioneer P90 and Eclipse CD8455/CD7000 (amoung others) and yet to this day I still consider it the best looking and best built head unit I've yet seen.

As mentioned the remote control is about as useful as a square wheel (it's about as responsive as a rock) but outside of this it's tunability is up there with pretty much anything else i've seen.

The only things it lacks against it's more expensive competition (F1, P90) are crossover slopes (HXD2 is limited to 6db/12db/18db) and 31 band EQ (5 band parametric only) - however that doesn't necessarilly tell the full story.

The sheer adjustability of the Parametric EQ in terms of gain (-12dB to+12dB in 0.5dB increments), frequency (1/3 octave) and Q (0.5 to 12.0) is the most comprehensive parametric EQ I've ever seen on a head unit, and if you have a system that is good overall with just a couple of response problems, it may actually prove even more useful then a full on 31 band graphic (part of the reson I decided not to P90). On top of this, unlike some other units (such as some Alpine's) the unit doesn't try to outsmart you by limiting how close you can position bands... you have pretty much completely freedom to place your bands wherever the hell you want, and even overlap them all if you really want to. It also gives you individual L/R control, allowing you to use L/R independant EQ if necessary.

Aside from the lack of a 24dB/30dB slope, the 4way active crossovers give you tons of control. They offer high and low pass filters on every channel (except tweeter, which has low pass only) and give you level adjustability from 0dB down to -24dB. Every channel has the option of phase reversal (0/180) and all channels can be individually muted which seems petty... but has proven to be one of the most useful features I've ever had on a head unit.

Finally, you have time alignment adjustment from 0cm up to 512cm uniquely adjustable on every channel down to about 3mm accuracy.

To assist with tuning further, there are three custom memory presets as well as a default preset (if you need one to get you out of trouble). Unlike some Alpine units I've used, you don't need to seperately store time alingment settings, EQ settings, etc. You select one memory and it saves ALL settings in one go.

With the exception of a single CD (it seems to hate chesky) the operation of the unit is flawless - perfectly smooth and quiet, with no software errors, crashes, read errors - nothing. Stunningly reliable, probably largely due to it's simplicity.

Finally, while the menu initially seems a little overwealming (due to lack of a GUI), once you get used to it it's actually one of the simplest user interfaces around. Every function does exactly as it is labelled, with no pointless, ambiguous graphics or bs to confuse. The pure text display is perfectly clear to see in all lighting conditions (unlike a lot of fancy looking LED displays), and navigation of the menu system is pretty much instant, with no lag or delays. It ain't fancy, but when it comes to fundamentals, its the best user interface i've used yet because it's WYSIWYG (What you see is what you get).

There are no pointless frills with this head unit - it doesnt try to dazzle you with flashing lights, animations, mario-esque sound effects or fancy gimmicky MP3 interfaces...the more you use this head unit the more you realise that it's designed purely for sound, and nothing more. Everything that is in there is there for a reason, and I absolutely love that about it.

I very seriously considered upgrading to a Pioneer P90, but over time I have seriously began wondering if it will actually bring me any improvement...in a brilliantly installed system, with the right components, the 5 band Parametric is probably more useful then a 31 band graphic, and I think i'd miss the styling, simplicity and obsessive adjustability of the Clarion more then I'd welcome a 24dB crossover slope, which is essentially the only thing the Pioneer would offer me above it.

Compared against a P90, even if money were no object, there is a good chance i'd choose the Clarion.

If someone offered me a CD700 II for my Clarion I wouldn't even need to give it any thought - the answer would be "forget it". Even if you do have a seperate 31 band EQ, unless you install is nigh on perfect (I've yet to see one that is), and you are a passive fanboy who will never in your life consider running active, the time aligment and crossover features on the Clarion are far too valuable to throw away, and it's sound quality is as dead accurate as I've heard from a car head unit.

If you go the Nak then given the price point, my guess is you'd be paying 25% for the sound quality, 5% for featrures, 20% for the name, and 50% for the wank factor.

Just my 2c

I love that

i reakon crossover is where its at if your dreaming of 3way fronts.Nothing worse than having 3ways without the ability to fine tune your midwoofer to midrange and midrange to tweet HZ range/slopes/Db intensity.

corey

he isnt interested in tuning from the head unit as far as i can tell......and using a HX-D2 for nothing but pure signal would make baby jesus cry