Hi Guys,

I managed to score an Orion 2150sx over the christmas break with the intent of an all Old School Amplified system.

I currently have an Orion 2250sx (2x250wrms), 2150sx (2x150wrms), and 250sx (2x50WRMS).

Currently I have the 2250sx bridged into a pair of subs, and the 250sx running my tweeters, with a bridged Eclipse EA3422 feeding my mids (all active).

I'm hoping the 2150sx will be at the very least a step sideways if not foward from the Eclipse. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I't s abit of mucknig around and will involve a complete boot redesign to fit the orion in the boot in place of the eclipse, but if there is potentially a gain to be had I'll look at redoing the boot/amp/sub install.

Mid's are Morel HCW8's

Thanks in advance.

you'll find that the performance of the orion amps will be more synergistic with similar speakers.
similar amps will complement each other tonally and in the way they interact with the complex reactive load of the speakers.

i.e. if you have all morel speakers, then all orion amps will help to ensure uniformity of sound, and install.

Thanks Pulse-R, I hadn't thought about that side of it. The tweeters are Arvus, not Morel's so I'm not sure this will be as big a factor as if I was usinig Morel tweets also.

Coherency accross the install and having always wanted the Orions was the main factor behind the hunting them down. The only downside is the size of the amps compared to the modern equivilants.

I was also thinking that the extra size/power supply of the orion and it only seeing a 4 ohm stereo load would allow for some more control over the mids.

I went from a EA3422 bridged to my entire 342's (2x140), to an arc 4150xxk bridged (2x320), and although the midrange/tweeter clarity, soundstage and space improved markedly, I lost a fair bit of midbass which suprised me a little. The eclipse amps i've used tend to have an emphasis on outputting a sound which is suited to the person who enjoys music that is reproduced smoothly with bass. The amount of control was quite good also. They lack the midrange detail but the price difference is there for a reason. I'm not sure how they compare with Orion SX amps.

From what i've read and listened to, the morels have a smooth sound similar to the Dynaudios. I'd try the amp out if possible first as I havne't heard an Orion amp in my install yet.

That's really interesting. Do you think it was accentuated midbass relative to the other frequencies and that the arc was more linear and the midbass was more in line level-wise with where it should be? Did you notice more control and a lot more headroom from the Arc over the Eclipse?

The Orions were high end equipment when they first came out, similar to the SS Reference Amps. I'm tossing up the idea of a system change atm anyways so I will try and do some 'testing' before I get too carried away, I could temporarily mount it on the boot floor I guess...

It may have been accentuated a little, but tuning/EQing bass out isn't as hard as adding more bass in that is accurate. You're "stretching' the amp more. If the amps' characteristics tend towards having a more bassy output without EQ, i've found it also has more controlled bass.

The 4150 just doesn't have the kick of the Eclipse in the midbass. But also, there are less peaks present with the 4150. You're probably right when you say it's more linear and blends better with the other frequencies, but I really like having clear midbass that I can feel, so that's why I liked the Eclipse over the Arc for midbass output.

Purchase an amplifier for the electrical section, purchase speakers for the sound. Not enough midbass? Get a larger midbass driver, install it in an enclosure, push more power to it, or simply double up on drivers (2-per-side).

The XXK is a major step up in quality to the EA. Not saying the Eclipse is bad, because they arent, but the Arc is a great design.

And not ALL the old Orions were super-duper. The SX was a good model, but the one's that are raved about (Similar to the SS Refs you mentioned) are the HCCA's. Those were beasts in their day.

I thought the main purpose for the HCCA's was pruely as a 'cheater' amp for low impedence stability?

I've found the EA provided a lot more midbass than the XXK, for ~170 watts less. So midbass output is not entirely dependent on the speaker or amp power. Amps have sound output characteristics too (which i'm sure you know).

Doubling up on drivers is not practical for most people and I realise the xxk is a major step-up for the midrange (dedicated 142's in my case) and tweeters, but in my experience the eclipse had a fair bit more midbass than the xxk when compared using the same speakers.

You simply CANNOT compare two amplifiers in a proovable manner unless you eliminate ALL other unknown and known variables from the system, so that the amplifier itself is the ONLY difference. Gain matching, EQ curves, distortion output etc. etc. (I'm sure you know the drill) all need to be eliminated as differences. So if power is being tested as the only variable, eliminate everything else. Otherwise, your test is moot.

Midbass output is dependent on a)enclosure and b)driver characteristics. An amplifier is nothing more then an electrical circuit feeding a signal. So yes, I agree with you there.

Amps have sound output characteristics? Yes. Should they? No. Can we easily (and cheaply) recreate them? Absolutely. Would I EVER choose an amplifier based purely on sound? No, and neither should anyone else.

I dont wish to sound harsh, but this has been discussed in substantial detail before. A lot of it here in the SQ forums too. You're a noobie, and thats okay, but I was only stating fact. If you 'lose' midbass, you can easily get it back. You just need to focus on the realities of the system, and midbass output is enclosure and driver related, with more being cone area and displacement related. Simple.

So to answer the OP question, either amp will do you fine, but seeing as you're planning an old school setup, the Orion will fit the bill nicely.

Thanks thematt...

I don't have large processing power available only the 5-band parametic on the headunit for the mids. The system will remain exactly the same in the front stage in regards to mounting etc, with the only tuning mechanism available being the head unit internal functions.

I didn't want to end up regretting effort involved in changing the amp if after tuning I was going to notice a descernable difference in quality.