first off, i did search (thinkin this would be common) but nothing i could find no results for HID.
im interested in getting some lowbeam white HID lights.. what is the brightest? i mean how does it rank, 6000K to 12000K.. and the H1, H12 etc etc
what is the brighest basically available is what i mean.
cheers
Full Version: HID lights
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=88502
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=69081
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=69841
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=56140
The Hx rating is the socket type, this indicates what car they'll fit into.
The xxxxK rating is the colour temperature. Around 4,200K is the colour you'll see in BMW's and other cars with HID headlights. The higher you go, the more the colour changes to blue. The lower you go, the more it goes towards yellow. A quick search in Google would have told you that.
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=69081
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=69841
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=56140
The Hx rating is the socket type, this indicates what car they'll fit into.
The xxxxK rating is the colour temperature. Around 4,200K is the colour you'll see in BMW's and other cars with HID headlights. The higher you go, the more the colour changes to blue. The lower you go, the more it goes towards yellow. A quick search in Google would have told you that.
lol wtf// i click on seach type in HID and get nothing... ive done it about 5 tims
word needs to be longer than 3letters for search to work
type hid*
type hid*
HID/xenons are 'illegal' unless you have self-levelling headlights and headlight washers. also require genuine HID 'projector' lenses. all this to stop glaring/blinding oncoming traffic. suffice to say, your magna is not suitable for HIDs.
high-kelvin (temperature) halogen globes obviously aren't HIDs.
high-kelvin (temperature) halogen globes obviously aren't HIDs.
im pretty sure mine are 6000k which are nice and white....and they do light up the road very well
might have to check the legality though
might have to check the legality though
lolill jst keep the hid bulb things i got, there alrite.. atleast a nice white light, and i just put modified to fit in 100Watt globes for my fogs so i get a nice vision across the road
if you want more light while retaining legality try upgrading you factory cable to a larger gauge or use some relays to get the most current capacity. The same way we run large power cable to amps works the same for lights.
check this page for a good read.
headlights and low voltage
check this page for a good read.
headlights and low voltage
This does show 6000K as daylight which i'd assume was pretty much perfect white. From everythng I used to read on HIDPlanet.com forums, I always assumed 4,100-4,300K was the ideal colour for vision, any higher and it starts to look blue and not as easy to see objects.
[edit]This HID newb crash course slightly differs though...
[edit]This HID newb crash course slightly differs though...
I've searched high and low and CANNOT find a legal way of retro fitting HIDs to my vehicle.
The closest I can come it replacing the head light assembly with a "projection" lens and cutting the back out to fit a HID projector assembly from a lexus or similar and adding light washers. I cant find where to get automatic self levelling though...
And then I still need to find an engineer to get it signed off.
I want it because I do a lot of country / remote driving (about 10,000ks every year) I think instead I'm just going to upgrade my driving lights to HID as this IS legal to do.
Ideally a kit that did HID high beam and halogen low beam would be the best as this would remain legal
The closest I can come it replacing the head light assembly with a "projection" lens and cutting the back out to fit a HID projector assembly from a lexus or similar and adding light washers. I cant find where to get automatic self levelling though...
And then I still need to find an engineer to get it signed off.
I want it because I do a lot of country / remote driving (about 10,000ks every year) I think instead I'm just going to upgrade my driving lights to HID as this IS legal to do.
Ideally a kit that did HID high beam and halogen low beam would be the best as this would remain legal
kirk you know you want some of the lightforce HID's
go take another look on my website, there sexy
go take another look on my website, there sexy
Sh!t! those 240 HIDs are a good price!
Might be tempted when the bank account recovers from moving house...
and after I buy a big ass TV (gotta compete with Stooge
)
Might be tempted when the bank account recovers from moving house...
and after I buy a big ass TV (gotta compete with Stooge
)QUOTE (Komodo @ Mar 2 2008, 11:31 PM) 
I've searched high and low and CANNOT find a legal way of retro fitting HIDs to my vehicle.
The closest I can come it replacing the head light assembly with a "projection" lens and cutting the back out to fit a HID projector assembly from a lexus or similar and adding light washers. I cant find where to get automatic self levelling though...
And then I still need to find an engineer to get it signed off.
I want it because I do a lot of country / remote driving (about 10,000ks every year) I think instead I'm just going to upgrade my driving lights to HID as this IS legal to do.
Ideally a kit that did HID high beam and halogen low beam would be the best as this would remain legal
The closest I can come it replacing the head light assembly with a "projection" lens and cutting the back out to fit a HID projector assembly from a lexus or similar and adding light washers. I cant find where to get automatic self levelling though...
And then I still need to find an engineer to get it signed off.
I want it because I do a lot of country / remote driving (about 10,000ks every year) I think instead I'm just going to upgrade my driving lights to HID as this IS legal to do.
Ideally a kit that did HID high beam and halogen low beam would be the best as this would remain legal
There is no legalities on driving lights/spot lights so you can HID them no worries.
Waiting for a set to arrive myself.
Paul
The only problem is that driving lights/spot lights get turned on and off quite often unless driving off-road. HID don't like being turned on and off frequently, even as little as 3 times per hour can damage the globes, apparently. The globe needs to completely cool off and the inside return to salts before being turned back on, otherwise damage occurs. This shortens the life, reduces the output and changes the colour temperature over time, but if you're using cheap kits and cheap globes they're probably still going to last longer than halogen anyway.
Here is a big post on the research into the legislation I did a little while back, as posted on the toymods forums.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see so many threads around the place asking about HID conversions. People talk about the ADR's, but never actually tell anyone what they really say.
I've done a little research, and this is what i've found....
Ok, here are the ADR's regarding HID headlamps and normal headlamps...
Links here:
Third Edition Australian Design Rules
ADR 13
ADR 45
Paragraph 5.5.2 basically says that if a fitting won't work just by fitting a globe, it's not considered a light. (Ie optional driving lights that aren't fitted aren't lights etc).
And regarding 6.2.6.2.2...
So according to 6.2.9, the part of clause 6.2.6.2.2 that states manual adjustment is permitted, is NOT permitted in the case of HID fitment, ie, manual adjustment isn't allowed. So that means you need to comply with the previous clause, which is shown below:
Therefore, automatic self levelling is required. (the two paragraphs mentioned refer to the actual specifications for beam angle etc).
But what about ADR 45?, well that refers mainly to signal lamps, but it does outline the colour variations permitted for lighting. I haven't converted the numbers to easy to understand form, but basically, white has to be white, not blue, yellow or purple. Ie 10,000K HID's are illegal.
Then we get to the gas discharge specific ADR's.....
Links:
ADR75 - Headlamp Cleaners
ADR 77 - Gas Discharge Headlamps
ADR 78 - Gas Discharge light Sources
6.3.x. goes on to basically state that there are to be no no sharp or pointy parts, like bonnet scoops but scaled down..... Have a read for the details.
ADR 77 states the following items of interest:
So dazzle and light spill above the horizontal (slightly higher on the passenger side) is a no go.
(If anyone can convert those trichromatic coordinates to a more 'real world' figure, I love you long time....)
So no doubling up of HID globes in your headlights. Levelling is taken care of in ADR 13 above. ('aint the labrynth of ADR's wonderful??)
And ADR 78 basically goes into the specifics of globe design, specifics on the arc discharge (shape, photometrics etc) but I wouldn't worry too much about that, as long as you dont have blue or purple HID's.
So there you go, after all the lawyer speak and technical jargon. If the HID fitting isn't self levelling, doesn't have a headlamp cleaning system and isn't white (as in, white), then it's illegal.
Actually, technically ANY retrofit is illegal, due to the lack of relevant testing and certification (read ADR 77 for the testing method if you can't sleep...), but if you follow the above, your HID retrofit will at least be technically compliant and won't blind me when I drive past!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see so many threads around the place asking about HID conversions. People talk about the ADR's, but never actually tell anyone what they really say.
I've done a little research, and this is what i've found....
Ok, here are the ADR's regarding HID headlamps and normal headlamps...
Links here:
Third Edition Australian Design Rules
ADR 13
ADR 45
QUOTE
Australian Design Rule 13/00 – Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles
6.2.9. Other requirements
The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45. In addition, with respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not be applied when these headlamps are installed.
6.2.9. Other requirements
The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45. In addition, with respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not be applied when these headlamps are installed.
Paragraph 5.5.2 basically says that if a fitting won't work just by fitting a globe, it's not considered a light. (Ie optional driving lights that aren't fitted aren't lights etc).
And regarding 6.2.6.2.2...
QUOTE
6.2.6.2.2. However, devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or non- continuously, shall be permitted, provided they have a stop positon at which the lamps can be returned to the initial inclination defined in paragraph 6.2.6.1.1. by means of the usual adjusting screws or similar means.
These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driver's seat.
Continually adjustable devices must have reference makes indicating the loading conditions that require adjustment of the dipped-beam.
The number of positions on devices which are not continuously adjustable must be such as to ensure compliance with the range of values prescribed in paragraph 6.2.6.1.2. in all the loading conditions defined in Annex 5.
For these devices also, the loading conditions of Annex 5 that require adjustment of the dipped-beam shall be clearly marked near the control of the device (see Annex
.
These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driver's seat.
Continually adjustable devices must have reference makes indicating the loading conditions that require adjustment of the dipped-beam.
The number of positions on devices which are not continuously adjustable must be such as to ensure compliance with the range of values prescribed in paragraph 6.2.6.1.2. in all the loading conditions defined in Annex 5.
For these devices also, the loading conditions of Annex 5 that require adjustment of the dipped-beam shall be clearly marked near the control of the device (see Annex
.So according to 6.2.9, the part of clause 6.2.6.2.2 that states manual adjustment is permitted, is NOT permitted in the case of HID fitment, ie, manual adjustment isn't allowed. So that means you need to comply with the previous clause, which is shown below:
QUOTE
6.2.6.2.1. In the case where a headlamp levelling device is necessary to satisfy the requirements of paragraphs 6.2.6.1.1. and 6.2.6.1.2., the device shall be automatic.
Therefore, automatic self levelling is required. (the two paragraphs mentioned refer to the actual specifications for beam angle etc).
But what about ADR 45?, well that refers mainly to signal lamps, but it does outline the colour variations permitted for lighting. I haven't converted the numbers to easy to understand form, but basically, white has to be white, not blue, yellow or purple. Ie 10,000K HID's are illegal.
QUOTE
Australian Design Rule 45/01 – Lighting and Light Signalling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations
45.2. GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
45.2.1. Lamps shall be so designed and constructed that in normal use, despite the vibrations to which they may then be subjected, they continue to function satisfactorily and retain the characteristics prescribed by this Rule.
45.2.2. The colour of the light emitted shall be within the limits of the co-ordinates prescribed in Clause 45.2.2.1 for the colour in question.
45.2.2.1. Colours of Lamps- Trichromatic Co-ordinates
Photometric blah blah stuff.... Just keep it white (ie under 6500K).
45.2. GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
45.2.1. Lamps shall be so designed and constructed that in normal use, despite the vibrations to which they may then be subjected, they continue to function satisfactorily and retain the characteristics prescribed by this Rule.
45.2.2. The colour of the light emitted shall be within the limits of the co-ordinates prescribed in Clause 45.2.2.1 for the colour in question.
45.2.2.1. Colours of Lamps- Trichromatic Co-ordinates
Photometric blah blah stuff.... Just keep it white (ie under 6500K).
Then we get to the gas discharge specific ADR's.....
Links:
ADR75 - Headlamp Cleaners
ADR 77 - Gas Discharge Headlamps
ADR 78 - Gas Discharge light Sources
QUOTE
Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners
6 GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
6.1 The headlamp cleaner shall be designed and constructed to clean those parts of the light-emitting surface of the headlamp which distribute the passing beam and the driving beam so that at least the cleaning effect specified in paragraph 7 below is achieved.
6.2 The headlamp cleaner shall be furthermore so designed that:
6.2.1 When parts of the headlamp cleaner in the rest position(s) are on the headlamps' illuminating surface, the photometric values of the headlamps, .... blah blah, not more than a 5% reduction in light output.....
6.2.1.1 Paragraph 6.2.1. is not applicable when the headlamp and the parts of the headlamp cleaner referred to in paragraph 6.2.1. form a complete assembly during the approval of the headland;
6.2.2 During operation, except in the rest position, the mechanical parts shall not cover more than:
6.2.2.1 20 % of the illuminating surface of a passing lamp,
6.2.2.2 10 % of the illuminating surface of a driving lamp with no high beam.
6.2.3 It is able to operate at all temperatures between -10 degrees C and +35 degrees C and to operate satisfactorily at speeds between 0 and 130 km/h (or the maximum speed of the vehicle if it is below 130 km/h); .......... the cleaner shall remain undamaged if exposed to a temperature of -35 degrees C and of +80 degrees C respectively for a period of one hour;
6.2.4 In normal use, in spite of the vibration to which it may be subjected, its satisfactory operation continues to be ensured;
6.2.5 It will not be functionally damaged due to water, ice or snow accumulating on it during normal operation of the vehicle, even if the cleaning liquid is frozen; a temporary failure due to freezing or deposit of snow shall not be considered as damage, provided that the device can be made to work again by simple means;
6.2.6 Elements which may come into contact with the cleaning fluid must be resistant against a mixture consisting of 50 % methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol and 50 % water;
6.2.7 Its parts do not hinder the adjustment of the headlamps or the inserting or changing of filament lamps; if necessary, the cleaner or parts of it may be detachable, if they can be removed with simple tools.
6.3 Parts of the headlamp cleaner which, in the rest position(s) and/or during operation, form part of the external surface of the vehicle, shall meet the following requirements:
6 GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
6.1 The headlamp cleaner shall be designed and constructed to clean those parts of the light-emitting surface of the headlamp which distribute the passing beam and the driving beam so that at least the cleaning effect specified in paragraph 7 below is achieved.
6.2 The headlamp cleaner shall be furthermore so designed that:
6.2.1 When parts of the headlamp cleaner in the rest position(s) are on the headlamps' illuminating surface, the photometric values of the headlamps, .... blah blah, not more than a 5% reduction in light output.....
6.2.1.1 Paragraph 6.2.1. is not applicable when the headlamp and the parts of the headlamp cleaner referred to in paragraph 6.2.1. form a complete assembly during the approval of the headland;
6.2.2 During operation, except in the rest position, the mechanical parts shall not cover more than:
6.2.2.1 20 % of the illuminating surface of a passing lamp,
6.2.2.2 10 % of the illuminating surface of a driving lamp with no high beam.
6.2.3 It is able to operate at all temperatures between -10 degrees C and +35 degrees C and to operate satisfactorily at speeds between 0 and 130 km/h (or the maximum speed of the vehicle if it is below 130 km/h); .......... the cleaner shall remain undamaged if exposed to a temperature of -35 degrees C and of +80 degrees C respectively for a period of one hour;
6.2.4 In normal use, in spite of the vibration to which it may be subjected, its satisfactory operation continues to be ensured;
6.2.5 It will not be functionally damaged due to water, ice or snow accumulating on it during normal operation of the vehicle, even if the cleaning liquid is frozen; a temporary failure due to freezing or deposit of snow shall not be considered as damage, provided that the device can be made to work again by simple means;
6.2.6 Elements which may come into contact with the cleaning fluid must be resistant against a mixture consisting of 50 % methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol and 50 % water;
6.2.7 Its parts do not hinder the adjustment of the headlamps or the inserting or changing of filament lamps; if necessary, the cleaner or parts of it may be detachable, if they can be removed with simple tools.
6.3 Parts of the headlamp cleaner which, in the rest position(s) and/or during operation, form part of the external surface of the vehicle, shall meet the following requirements:
6.3.x. goes on to basically state that there are to be no no sharp or pointy parts, like bonnet scoops but scaled down..... Have a read for the details.
QUOTE
6.5 In case of approval of a vehicle the following requirements shall also be met:
6.5.1 Cleaning of all passing (high beam) headlamps shall be compulsory. If there are more than two driving headlamps, the cleaning of one pair of these headlamps shall be sufficient;
6.5.2 If the cleaner has a fluid container this may be combined with the fluid container for the windscreen washers and the rear window washer.......
6.5.1 Cleaning of all passing (high beam) headlamps shall be compulsory. If there are more than two driving headlamps, the cleaning of one pair of these headlamps shall be sufficient;
6.5.2 If the cleaner has a fluid container this may be combined with the fluid container for the windscreen washers and the rear window washer.......
ADR 77 states the following items of interest:
QUOTE
Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps
6.1.1 Headlamps shall be so made that with suitable gas-discharge light source they give adequate illuminance without dazzle when emitting the passing beam, and good illumination when emitting the driving beam.
6.1.6 The trichromatic coordinates of the light of the beams emitted by headlamps using gas- discharge light sources must be in the following boundaries:
limit towards:
blue: x > 0.310
yellow: x < 0.500
green: y < 0.150 + 0.640x
green: y < 0.440
purple: y > 0.050 + 0.750x
red: y > 0.382
6.2.1 The passing beam must produce a sufficiently sharp "cut-off" to permit a satisfactory adjustment with it's aid. The "cut-off" must be a horizontal straight line on the side opposite to the direction of traffic for which the headlamp is intended: on the other side .....(it can't be too high or low)...... A cut-off extending above a combination of these lines shall in no circumstances be permitted.
6.2.2.1 .....in the case of headlamps designed to meet the requirements of left-hand traffic, the "cut-off" on the right-half of the screen is horizontal.....
6.1.1 Headlamps shall be so made that with suitable gas-discharge light source they give adequate illuminance without dazzle when emitting the passing beam, and good illumination when emitting the driving beam.
6.1.6 The trichromatic coordinates of the light of the beams emitted by headlamps using gas- discharge light sources must be in the following boundaries:
limit towards:
blue: x > 0.310
yellow: x < 0.500
green: y < 0.150 + 0.640x
green: y < 0.440
purple: y > 0.050 + 0.750x
red: y > 0.382
6.2.1 The passing beam must produce a sufficiently sharp "cut-off" to permit a satisfactory adjustment with it's aid. The "cut-off" must be a horizontal straight line on the side opposite to the direction of traffic for which the headlamp is intended: on the other side .....(it can't be too high or low)...... A cut-off extending above a combination of these lines shall in no circumstances be permitted.
6.2.2.1 .....in the case of headlamps designed to meet the requirements of left-hand traffic, the "cut-off" on the right-half of the screen is horizontal.....
So dazzle and light spill above the horizontal (slightly higher on the passenger side) is a no go.
(If anyone can convert those trichromatic coordinates to a more 'real world' figure, I love you long time....)
QUOTE
[i] 6.2.5 Only one gas-discharge light source is permitted for each passing beam headlamp.
[/I]So no doubling up of HID globes in your headlights. Levelling is taken care of in ADR 13 above. ('aint the labrynth of ADR's wonderful??)
And ADR 78 basically goes into the specifics of globe design, specifics on the arc discharge (shape, photometrics etc) but I wouldn't worry too much about that, as long as you dont have blue or purple HID's.
So there you go, after all the lawyer speak and technical jargon. If the HID fitting isn't self levelling, doesn't have a headlamp cleaning system and isn't white (as in, white), then it's illegal.
Actually, technically ANY retrofit is illegal, due to the lack of relevant testing and certification (read ADR 77 for the testing method if you can't sleep...), but if you follow the above, your HID retrofit will at least be technically compliant and won't blind me when I drive past!
QUOTE (Stone @ Sep 29 2008, 04:05 AM)
The only problem is that driving lights/spot lights get turned on and off quite often unless driving off-road. HID don't like being turned on and off frequently, even as little as 3 times per hour can damage the globes, apparently. The globe needs to completely cool off and the inside return to salts before being turned back on, otherwise damage occurs. This shortens the life, reduces the output and changes the colour temperature over time, but if you're using cheap kits and cheap globes they're probably still going to last longer than halogen anyway.
Hi mate
read stories of people using cheap kits for 3 years plus and cope well with being dipped for oncoming traffic before going back on again.
just varies the warm up time - ie off for sub 10 seconds no warm up - over 30 theres a warm up period but not like turning them on from scratch
also hids run alot cooler than the halogen bulbs so heat wont be an issue.
The start up only varies on OEM, as far as I know. All the kits I've used don't change their start up whether they've been off for 5 seconds or 30 mins. The ballast still spikes the globe to ignite it and turns it pink and other funny colours if the globe is still in a gaseous state. If the globe in it's solid state the bulb just lights up normally and is at full brightness after a few seconds.
Those bright blue lights hurt my eyes and I dont like them
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