*Note - Before anyone tells me to go to Planet audio, I would like to advise that my work deems it a chatroom, and it is consequently blocked*
I just have a quick question. I currently run 5.1, but will be upgrading to a THX 7.1 Amp on Thursday. I need another set of speaker and I am not sure what to get. The manual talks about using di-polar speakers, I had a look on the web and it's hard to note whether these speakers are better then normal speakers or not. They will be for the surround channels at the back. just wanted opinions on whether it is worth getting them or just getting normal speakers. ProsCons etc.
Thanks
Full Version: Home Audio Q - Bi\Di-Polar speakers
Bi-pole have a spker on the sides. Tri pole have them on both sides as well as front. The idea is that the side spkrs help fill the void between spkrs and provide a more accurate surround experience. I know M&K have both in their line up and IMO they are the GOD of surround sound spkrs.
I run M&Ks but have regular rears, and have them firing across where I sit, and that works really well. Im sure using tri-poles etc may work even better but I wouldnt sweat it as awesome results can be had with normal spkr set up correctly. BTW rears are technically the surround spkrs and are not meant to go behind you but fire across the listener. The only spkr that should be behind the listner is a rear centre in a 6.1 set up
peace
Cyberpunky
I run M&Ks but have regular rears, and have them firing across where I sit, and that works really well. Im sure using tri-poles etc may work even better but I wouldnt sweat it as awesome results can be had with normal spkr set up correctly. BTW rears are technically the surround spkrs and are not meant to go behind you but fire across the listener. The only spkr that should be behind the listner is a rear centre in a 6.1 set up
peace
Cyberpunky
QUOTE (Cyberpunky)
Bi-pole have a spker on the side as well as front. Tri pole have them on both sides as well as front. The idea is that the side spkrs help fill the void between spkrs and provide a more accurate surround experience. I know M&K have both in their line up and IMO they are the GOD of surround sound spkrs.
never heard THAT before... lol
dipole have the speakers mounted freeair on a baffel...
bipole have them in a sealed box, with a woofer on the front, and back, with them in phase (but they are oposite, so both move out at the same time)
edit: thats a good enough explaination.... I think... :S
edit: a proper definition of bipole/dipole...
yeah... alright..
Bipoles = in phase
Dipoles = out of phase
edit: proper definition....
skinnyguy = weeeeeeeeeeeeeen0r
skinnyguy = weeeeeeeeeeeeeen0r
QUOTE (VL Commy)
edit: proper definition....
skinnyguy = weeeeeeeeeeeeeen0r
skinnyguy = weeeeeeeeeeeeeen0r
what? I gave the definitions of bipole, and dipole.... basically
Dude I cant be held responsible for everything you have never heard as it seems thats a lot. M&K are used by Lucas art. Dolby Labs, Sony, Disney, and the list goes on and on and thats how they make there di-pole and tri-pole speakers, but what would they know about surround sound compared to you ??? I mean just because there products ARE the industry standard. Maybe they just forget to talk to you before they went out and owned the surround sound industry *sighs*
later
Cyberpunky
later
Cyberpunky
QUOTE (Cyberpunky)
Dude I cant be held responsible for everything you have never heard as it seems thats a lot. M&K are used by Lucas art. Dolby Labs, Sony, Disney, and the list goes on and on and thats how they make there di-pole and tri-pole speakers, but what would they know about surround sound compared to you ??? I mean just because there products ARE the industry standard. Maybe they just forget to talk to you before they went out and owned the surround sound industry *sighs*
later
Cyberpunky
later
Cyberpunky
I'm telling you what bipole, and dipole are... I'm sure dipoles could also have the woofer mounted on the side of the box instead, but I don't think it would be called a dipole then...
I already know and bi-poles can and do have speakers mounted on the side. M&K have them as well as Tri-pole. I sold Surround sound for 18 months at the number 1 high end store in Melb. I own M&Ks myself, I thought they worked so well. It was my job to know what they were.
I really don't think it would be classed as a bipole if one woofer was on the front, and one on the side...
but, I could be wrong...
anyway..... is this what the manufacturer is really talking about?? I'm guessing to help with the "surround" effect...
in other words Sigmeister, its not needed
but, I could be wrong...
anyway..... is this what the manufacturer is really talking about?? I'm guessing to help with the "surround" effect...
in other words Sigmeister, its not needed
Like I said, they make em and they obviously forgot to get in touch with you before they owned the surround sound industry. I guess they could be wrong and your right but no, they are right. ffs
nah... dipoles have one woofer on the front, one on the back...
and this is the reason they suggest them...
http://www.hometheatermag.com/loudspeakers.../25/index2.html
and this is the reason they suggest them...
http://www.hometheatermag.com/loudspeakers.../25/index2.html
ALRIGHT!!! BOTH are dipole, although front/rear firing is the most common configuration...
*sighs*
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<<
QUOTE (Cyberpunky)
*sighs*
<<
<<
I'm 99% sure thats NOT a dipole... sorry to say... but the way they work, is to create pressure inside the enclosure my both woofers moving in at once, and compressing the air, and that won't work too well with different size woofers...
that make be a tuned bot with a passive radiator..
you failed to mention it has two 3.5inch woofer, and one 5.25 inch...
now try reading what I wrote in my FIRST post about them filling the voids and providing a better surround effect. This is exactly what the article you linked to said.
well if you would stop telling me how it is I could explain and you might learn something ...just an idea
no... I'm quite happy not spending $3000 on a pair of satelite speakers with a frequency response from 100 - 20,000Hz..
DIPOLE - A dipole speaker is where sound comes out of two sides of the speaker, and NO sound comes out of the "front" of the cabinet. The speakers are wired out of phase with each other (actually out of polarity) and this gives the sound a diffused splay, which makes it appear the sound is coming from a larger area. Dipole speakers are used in home theater systems for side or back speakers, never for front speakers.
TRIPOLE - In a Tripole™ Speaker, sound comes out from three directions: the sides, for a diffused surround sound effect which is especially useful for movie sound tracks, and the front of the speaker, (or in the case of our CS-22, CS-29, and CS-35 Column Surrounds, the Top) for better localization cues especially when playing music in a surround sound mode. Tripole speakers are an exclusive M&K patented feature
Taken from M&K's website, www.mksound.com
TRIPOLE - In a Tripole™ Speaker, sound comes out from three directions: the sides, for a diffused surround sound effect which is especially useful for movie sound tracks, and the front of the speaker, (or in the case of our CS-22, CS-29, and CS-35 Column Surrounds, the Top) for better localization cues especially when playing music in a surround sound mode. Tripole speakers are an exclusive M&K patented feature
Taken from M&K's website, www.mksound.com
QUOTE (ReMiX)
DIPOLE - A dipole speaker is where sound comes out of two sides of the speaker, and NO sound comes out of the "front" of the cabinet. The speakers are wired out of phase with each other (actually out of polarity) and this gives the sound a diffused splay, which makes it appear the sound is coming from a larger area. Dipole speakers are used in home theater systems for side or back speakers, never for front speakers.
but that definitions suggests that the drivers must be on opposite sides of the box, or one MUST be on the "front".. either that, or its facing the other direction to the listener...
read your link dude. You will see the dipoles are not firing at the listener. They are used to fill the void *sighs again*.
Thanks reMix. I couldnt get into M&K site to find that
Thanks reMix. I couldnt get into M&K site to find that
QUOTE (Cyberpunky)
read your link dude. You will see the dipoles are not firing at the listener. They are used to fill the void *sighs again*.
Thanks reMix. I couldnt get into M&K site to find that
Thanks reMix. I couldnt get into M&K site to find that
exactly... so if they aren't firing at the listener, then technically you can't have the drivers on perpendicular sides...
meh, forget it... its a stupid arguement.... to whoever started this thread, I'd make my own dipoles, rather than buy them if they are $2999 a pair! lol
get a listen to some M&Ks and you might find they are worth it. I have the K series. I didnt pay that much for them thou, as mine were the first set in country, bought in to evaluate them. I couldnt build anything that works as well for anywhere near what I paid. Plus they look sooo kewl and match my TV and surround amp.
yes, but I'm still wondering.. how M&K say NOT to have any drivers facing the listener, and yet, with those speakers you gave a pic of, if you have the 3.5inch mids facing the sides (as on the webpage I linked to)(talking about the rear speakers here, it applied for the sides too though) then you need to either have the 5.25inch and tweeter facing towards the back of the room, or towards the listener, which they themselves say not to do... =
edit: "DIPOLE - A dipole speaker is where sound comes out of two sides of the speaker, and NO sound comes out of the "front" of the cabinet."
which would mean, you can't have a DIPOLE with woofers on perpendicular sides, like I said to begin with...
edit: "DIPOLE - A dipole speaker is where sound comes out of two sides of the speaker, and NO sound comes out of the "front" of the cabinet."
which would mean, you can't have a DIPOLE with woofers on perpendicular sides, like I said to begin with...
re-read my first post. I have suggested you do this several times ya know lol
QUOTE (Cyberpunky)
re-read my first post. I have suggested you do this several times ya know lol
yes, I have read your first post, they are "tripole" except MK state they can be used as dipole...
also, MK state that dipole have the woofers on the oposite sides of the enclosure... not on perpendicular sides... so... forget it.. :S
you havent re-read it...<<
I've read it... 3 times now... maybe tell me what you're actually getting at here... might help... =
Thanks for your help Cyberpunky.
So it seems di-polar widen the stage. I guess my next question is, for a 95% movie setup and where only one or 2 people are the main listeners, is it best to have just normal speakers firing straight at the listener, so the sound is more 'direct' or is it better to have a wide sound stage?
So it seems di-polar widen the stage. I guess my next question is, for a 95% movie setup and where only one or 2 people are the main listeners, is it best to have just normal speakers firing straight at the listener, so the sound is more 'direct' or is it better to have a wide sound stage?
Bipole/dipole are used instead of normal directional speakers when the surrounds are going to be placed too close to the listener. So if your surrounds are going to be at a decent distance from you, then normal speakers are fine.
I got bipole/dipole speakers as my surrounds are only 1.5m from my listening position. See pic below, I aim the centre at the listeners so that the sound bounces of the front and rear of the room to give a "surround" effect.
Also, surrounds go at your sides, not your back.
I got bipole/dipole speakers as my surrounds are only 1.5m from my listening position. See pic below, I aim the centre at the listeners so that the sound bounces of the front and rear of the room to give a "surround" effect.
Also, surrounds go at your sides, not your back.
The speakers I am referring to are the "surround" speakers in a 7.1 setup. (I appologise if i am using the wrong terms)
Rear speakers are to be 2-3 feet above ear level of the listener firing toward them from the side.
The Surround speakers are meant to be behind the listener in a 60 degree angle, evenly spaced and 2-3 feet above ear level.
The second are the ones I am tlaking about.
Rear speakers are to be 2-3 feet above ear level of the listener firing toward them from the side.
The Surround speakers are meant to be behind the listener in a 60 degree angle, evenly spaced and 2-3 feet above ear level.
The second are the ones I am tlaking about.
Oh ok, sorry. I know them as "surround" and "surround back" as most receivers call them that.
Skinny your an idiot, passive radiators are never smaller than the speaker they are working with.
Admit your wrong.
Admit your wrong.
QUOTE (Wraybees)
Skinny your an idiot, passive radiators are never smaller than the speaker they are working with.
Admit your wrong.
Admit your wrong.
you're an idiot...
hey got another option
if you want something you can not see
for the price id use dyn car audio. Why car well if you are going to use the speakers in the walls or ceiling then you would choose drivers designed for free air aplications just like the car audio mids and midwoofers from dyn focal or whatever your fav brand is.
use the md130 tweeter gt 160 midwoofer and the matching x-over
buy a cheap inwall speaker that will fit your new drivers and rip out the crappy drivers and mount your good ones. YEs it will take a little modification but its worth it. Have you seen the rrp of the dyn inwall setup its insane!!!! with the exact i mean exact drivers as i have just mentioned.
place them where they will sound the best and with dyn you would need on axis.
off axis go for focal k2p two way setup istead
simple easy install
the di-pole speakers mentioned might work ok but ive yet to hear a HT setup with them.
7.1????
just use 5.1 its still the best for normal sized rooms, i assume you are anyway.
just remember to use match fronts and centre. This is critical for front stage intergration.
for $3k you can design and build your own that look even better than the speakers mentioned
john will build you a box if you want something thats absolutely incredible.
http://www.acousticconcepts.com.au/index.html
you dont need to really go over the top for rear speakers. even the cheap seas will do an excellent job, $600 for drivers for dipole total is really enough . Pro boxes for this wouldnt cost more than $400 each. Next thing is x-over which madisound can design...and i say its the best $40usd ive ever spent they really do make an excellent x-over.
if you want something you can not see
for the price id use dyn car audio. Why car well if you are going to use the speakers in the walls or ceiling then you would choose drivers designed for free air aplications just like the car audio mids and midwoofers from dyn focal or whatever your fav brand is.
use the md130 tweeter gt 160 midwoofer and the matching x-over
buy a cheap inwall speaker that will fit your new drivers and rip out the crappy drivers and mount your good ones. YEs it will take a little modification but its worth it. Have you seen the rrp of the dyn inwall setup its insane!!!! with the exact i mean exact drivers as i have just mentioned.
place them where they will sound the best and with dyn you would need on axis.
off axis go for focal k2p two way setup istead
simple easy install
the di-pole speakers mentioned might work ok but ive yet to hear a HT setup with them.
7.1????
just use 5.1 its still the best for normal sized rooms, i assume you are anyway.
just remember to use match fronts and centre. This is critical for front stage intergration.
for $3k you can design and build your own that look even better than the speakers mentioned
john will build you a box if you want something thats absolutely incredible.
http://www.acousticconcepts.com.au/index.html
you dont need to really go over the top for rear speakers. even the cheap seas will do an excellent job, $600 for drivers for dipole total is really enough . Pro boxes for this wouldnt cost more than $400 each. Next thing is x-over which madisound can design...and i say its the best $40usd ive ever spent they really do make an excellent x-over.
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