Im getting all the gear ready for my next system, and currently only running 2 way front components, the Z6's..
the mids are in the doors (stock location) but the tweeters I have mounted in the kick panels, being the best placement in my car, however Would it be a good idea to add ambients? to raise the Stage height?

I havent really had a good chance to test the Z6's in my car in 2 way mode, due to one of the tweeters not working..

but have had the pro60's in the car, and they seem to have an ok stage height.

Id rather get everything in the begining, as im planning on building a false floor or amp rack...

or would I be better running the tweets up high actively and controlling that way?

Ben? SStealth?

also managed to get Boston amps to help pair up with the speakers and soon to be g5...
Got a Gt42 amp

so they amp is around 350 w rms per side if bridged or 170-190 w rms if I run them active for the mids

if I was to get Ambients.m i would end up getting another amp and just run the GT42 amp for the mids only... or amp i going overboard?

ambients=bandaid.

with proper positioning, and aiming it right, you dont need ambients

i would do all you can to avoid needing ambients. let them be something that you play around with after the install is completed and your tuning all finished, and you're bored and think you want to change stuff. I gave them a try, and while it did raise the stage height, it did it in very wierd ways. I ended up, if I moved my head just forward of the headrest, hearing the percussion playing somewhere around the rearview mirror. did crape things to the imaging and accuracy though.

good fun but!

yeah ok... I might leave it

its just before I make the amp rack and all the other things, I just thought id consider it

ideally, the z6's will take as much power as you care to stick into 'em, so I would make some plans somewhere to be able to fit another amp, either a space on the amp rack or elsewhere under the seats. that way you can chop and change as your whims dictate. Try and future proof your system as much as possible, saves moneys in the long run eh.

take a bit of time to position the tweeters correctly and you won't need ambients.

I used to run ambients myself, but after a bit of trial and error, I found that where the ambients were located was the best place for the tweeters, so the other (previously mounted) tweeters are gone.

That freed up some amp channels to run the midbass bridged... much better idea.

yeah that would be a good idea.. only thing is, I need some Z6 woofers as I want to keep it all boston, I mose well seeming the sub, amps and already front speakers are

i used ambients to great effect in my previous car. but i would only do it if you have the tuning tools available, for which i have my alpine digital processor. this provides: dedicated (separate) outputs to the amp, time correction, easily adjustable crossover filters (for slope and frequency), EQ.

so unless you have such a processor, it will be difficult and very time consuming.

note, my current car will not feature ambients. just a simpler 2-way setup.

Yes Im looking at getting an H701 processor later on down the track..

then that would make it much easier.

if the tweeters are kickpanel mounted, i recommend it. lots of fun tuning ahead.

oh ok, So I should look at getting ambients? if I was to go down this path?

i was planning on only spending soo much.. really

But I might just get all the speakers and amps, then get the processor and headunit later on...

i don't know about 'should', but IF you mount the Z6 tweeters in the kickpanels, you CAN achieve improved stageheight with ambients.

perhaps use some tweeters from the Pro60 splits. something good quality but small.

realise, it can be an expensive exercise, and can take a LONG time to get sounding right. but when done properly, it will sound seamless.

So If I could somehow fit z6 woofers with the tweeters mounted as coax in the kick panels? a pair of z6 midbass speakers? then some ambients?

The reason I was looking at Ambients, as I already have a Z6 tweeter, and have ordered 2 from the states, I mose well order another one... if I was go down this path,

i dont have alot of space in the kick panels to mount the mids... my car is an altezza (IS200 lexus)

Its been said already. Forget ambients. Do it properly, and they are not required.

even if I was to get the H701 processor?

Ok.. So If I ditch the ambient tweeter idea and just go simply 2 way active

first question I have, is the H701 an overkill for a just 2 way up front setup?

In the past I have not had alot of luck with boston speakers in general when running them active.. however I had a P80 and find it somewhat limited with its EQ Bands and crossover points...

car is quite small inside, its a is200 for you aussies if anyone has seen these?

Yes, know the IS200.
Two way active fronts is fine for the H701

you can still run rears and/or centre channel for surround sound too

hmmm

Im just trying to finalise alot of my options, as once i start building the amp rack, I dont really want to be ripping it out and doing it again

I couldn't agree with you less. Your telling me that Mark Eldridge the winner of the most IASCA comps in the history of the competition, that he used ambients because he needed a bandaid??

Many cars use ambients, as its the only thing that allows certain systems to image and stage correctly

I do agree you can get great results without them, however a blanket statement like they are a bandaid is a great mistruth.

well said Teggers.

however, this gent sounds like he is maaybe somewhere near the bottom of the car audio tree, like the rest of us, rather than near the top, like your mate. Hence, it would be beneficial to him, most probably, to sort out getting it right without ambients. then, when he's learnt how to use the H701 in about 2 years time, get the ambients and have a play around. Then he might see results more like Mark Eldrige, and less like me

I orginally was running my pro6.5s as coaxials using the tweeter bridge and using a pair of Vifa tweeters in the sail panels as ambients...
After Pyroay playing with the Clarion HXD2 we could get a far better sound using only the tweeters we had been using as ambients.

The problem with ambients is the environment you're putting them in. High frequencies are very diffuse, which is a bad thing for reproduction at those wavelengths. Early reflections destroy stage image, and placing a second set of ambients is simply adding fuel to the fire. Your adding more diffusion where there is already too much, and more reflections where there is already too much.

The car that ME used, with the ambients, I'm 99% sure was utilising reflections all throughout the car (no drivers had direct wave energy to the listener). It was a clever design at the time, but FAR outside the standard that is to be expected from users of this site.

In the context of this discussion, on this site, Ambients ARE a bandaid. They are simply allowing height to be had from poorly positioned and aimed tweeters. Many hundreds MORE IASCA winners can demonstrate the ability to achieve great, dual seat listening (for Expert and Open classes) with almost perfect imaging, utilising a single pair of tweeters.

Solve the root cause, not the symptom. Root Cause = Poor position. Solution = Better positioning. Ambients not required.

thanks guys for the info, its not really a problem with my old setup as far as i was concerned with stage height, it was more just inquiring whether or not to use a set, as im just finding space for the amps and the install in general and thought it would look pretty having more amps, or possibly improve the sound yet again... more so

some mixed opinions here on the matter, I do plan to play around with the placement of the tweeters, as in the past all my boston tweets have been quite bright sounding, whereas mounting them in the kicks has helped heaps with the sound produced from them IMO

however the z6's do sound much different compared to the other sets I have previously owned... and seeming I might either bi amp or go active again.. I might have a good play around with the placement this time

Have been reading through the manual of the h701, seems pretty good so far, i dont think it will take me long to figure things out, as I under the basic concept of most of the features it supports... and not exactly a slow learner

the problem now is... $$$ can anyone recommend anything?