MEA...
Let me ask. Do you think cars that have frameless windows (eg Subarus) are at a disadvantage when it comes to SQ/Comp car audio? When compared to cars that have full framed windows.
I think that there is a difference, minimal, but it is there. The glass has alot more room for wobble considering it sits on a rubber wedge. More often than not were placing larger/beefier drivers in the doors, hence I would expect these to shake the glass alot more. Were putting 9's in doors now! Lets accept that a tougth/held panel is better, in more cases than not, then a panel that has room to move. Even if it's minimal.
You could argue against that; in that if you prep/deaden your door correctly you would not have that issue. That the deadness of the door would not let any energy transfer to the glass in the first place. Also the fact that there is no flimsy frame lets the glass sit correctly wedged in the rubber as it should. As what is stoppin the window frame from moving...
Discuss.


ps, im considering a car purchase and "might" use it in the future for SQ/Comp. I also posted this on another forum, but value your opinions too.

Absolutely, I have an Integra with Image Dynamic mids in them, the mids get well over 150+ RMS, the doors are heavily sealed with Dynamat, I am using HDPE plastic mounts for the mids, to prevent resonance. Only to find since i have NO window frames, the glass does indeed "wobble" .. I am looking at rebuilding the window tracks and the brace that holds the glass with rubber bushes to prevent this.

Wow, thanks tegboy (btw nice thread in DIYMA).
Yeah i figured as much. I'm now in two minds about considering the purchase of a paritcular car as in the future I would like to have it compete. Getting round this frame less window is not easy.
Thanks mate.
Best to you, let us know know how you get on with the rubber bushes.

if you want to compete in SPL then yes.

for SQ, the judges vary rarely listen above 95 to 100dB (not loud), so it won't really impact the competition side of things.

the glass wobbles, yes but only when you crank it.

kinda related but kinda off topic,

i had a rattle in my door that was pissing me off big time, after a week i noticed that it was only with my window down

all it was, was that with the window down it has no support on the top of the glass, and by winding it back up a little bit, it is supported by the weather strip

and no more rattle

True,
I plan to cover lots of open road K's in the car. Hence I will need, to some level, to turn up the volume. Combating road, tyre & wind noise is tricky& achieavable, but the law of diminishing returns means, even over-engineered sound deadning & techniques can only take you so far.
The truth is, I would rather avoid the problem than try to fix/band aid around it. Hence I think I will abandon my origianl choice for vehicle and look at alternatives.
Thanks for your feedback though. Cheers.

** For those of you interested I was looking at 99 to 2002 Magna/Veradas. I need the size and comfort. So perhaps a VT Calais is also on the books.

bugger that.

maybe a 65' merc

I competed with a Subaru 1994 BG series Liberty/Legacy wagon for SQ and it was never a factor.

The Magna's of that generation were actually not that bad. The rounded kicks, in my mind always lent themselves very well to kick panel speakers, the doors would accept 8's.

The deck was the only thing I hated, it would either be cradle mounted, or OEM brackets re-drilled, which led to the dreaded ISO gap.

I say go for it, there was a US comp Diamante (AUS Magna) that had a great system, the deck was ultra stealth with a motorised face, I can scan teh article if interested?

Yeah, I've only done x2 basic installs in these series Magnas, nice jap build quality and reasonable plastics/interior. But never owned one so don't recall long term use and window shake issue.
Mate yes please. That would be awesome, thank you!

Hi Winno,
Can I ask what size driver you had in the doors, and how much power were you feeding it? (give or take, music is transient and power is gain proportional)
Also did you do anything special with deadning/baffle in the door?

BTW, what year GTi6 do you have (im a former 306-pug owner too)

I wish! !
Beleive it or not I was looking at one!...

I had Boston Pro 6.5" mids in the doors fed with a Pheonix Gold ZX-450 amp which was capable of 75wrms at 14.4v into 4 ohms. I also had 2 x 10" Infinity Beta 10's in the wheel well at the back of the wagon driven off the same amp. Sounded very nice once tuned and went impresively loud too. The doors were deadened with about 8 sheets of Fusion FUD sheet.

The Pug is a '99 in grey mica