we'd all feel terribly sorry for you if we weren't all in the same boat
what to do: mids in the kicks, mids in the doors, tweeters in the kicks next to the mids, tweeters at the base of the a-pillars....
And once they're glassed in, they're in.
Full Version: SQ Tweeter Location
poor bugger...
we'd all feel terribly sorry for you if we weren't all in the same boat
what to do: mids in the kicks, mids in the doors, tweeters in the kicks next to the mids, tweeters at the base of the a-pillars....
And once they're glassed in, they're in.
we'd all feel terribly sorry for you if we weren't all in the same boat
what to do: mids in the kicks, mids in the doors, tweeters in the kicks next to the mids, tweeters at the base of the a-pillars....
And once they're glassed in, they're in.
it all comes down to the interior design of the car, materials used, even your head shape to how it will image and sound.
take the Treo 6 for example, Sam from Phatt and myself spent about an hour and a half to 2 hours sitting in there with the same track playing, we put them tweeters in every possible place we could to find the optimal place for them.
if anyone has seen the tweeter pods, they are a work of art! the tweeter come off the dash towards the seats and fires up and towards the windscreen.
the imaging was awesome, and no TA was used at all, just cause we spent the time getting them in the best position.
i had to sacrafice driving comfort in my old car to get my tweeters where i wanted them. but it didnt worry me, i wanted the best sound i could
take the Treo 6 for example, Sam from Phatt and myself spent about an hour and a half to 2 hours sitting in there with the same track playing, we put them tweeters in every possible place we could to find the optimal place for them.
if anyone has seen the tweeter pods, they are a work of art! the tweeter come off the dash towards the seats and fires up and towards the windscreen.
the imaging was awesome, and no TA was used at all, just cause we spent the time getting them in the best position.
i had to sacrafice driving comfort in my old car to get my tweeters where i wanted them. but it didnt worry me, i wanted the best sound i could
At the end of the day many positions have the ability to work well, but at the same there is never a 'perfect position' inside a car. As is always the case with an in-car environment, there will always be some compromise. Picking the right position isn't about picking the position that isn't flawed, it's about picking the position with the least significant flaws.
As far as stage height vs speaker locations, I personally believe their is a significant impact. I'm not making any concrete generalisations of how height of a driver effects stage height, however what I will[/s] say is that from my experiences pillar/dash/sail mounted tweeter installs have always produced a higher stage then kick mounted installs.
I [i]have heard some kick mounted installs that have produced solid height (up around the top of the dash, maybe slightly above) but I've yet to hear a car with a kick mounted install that produced excellent height (significantly above the dash, half way up the windscreen).
The big issues I've found consistent with most kick based tweeter installs are either lack of consistency, or lack of outright performance. Because of the position of the tweeters, you usually get one of two scenarios. The first issue, is that having passengers / people in the front seats (as well as other objects) blocks the path of the tweeter and kills pretty much kills high frequency performance. This is fine for competitions (where you can just make sure you dont have anything in the way) but in the real world we often have to carry passengers, and the result is a system that never sounds consistent. Personally, i build a system because I want to enjoy music, not purely for winning trophies, to to me it's pointless having a system that doesn't perform with consistency every day.
You can get around the above problem more or less by mounting thet tweeters in the kicks heavilly off axis. This doesn't really solve the problem though. It eliminates the problem of consistency, but in a bad way. Rather then having bad peformance when something is in the way, you get bad performance all the time[/]. Off axis in pillars is bad - off axis in the kicks is even worse.
Running in the pillars introduces issues of its own. First of all, if you arent very careful about angle and placement, reflections can cause significant problems. You can never really completely eliminate them, but you [i]can reduce the impact to the point where it's not really significant enough to notice.
The second problem with pillars is that - unless you can put your mids there as well - it introduces greater difference in pathlength between tweeter and midrange. This different in distance can be somewhat improved using Time Alignment, however it can not be entirely eliminated. This can be somewhat gotten around by taking appropriate measurements of your environment, and locating a midrange location that most closely matches the distance of your tweeters. It is almost impossible to get those distances identical, but if you can get them 'pretty close' then any minor timing problems cause can be pretty much (audible) cleaned up with time alignment. Like any other form of tuning, Time Alignment won't make a terrible install good, bit it can make a good install brilliant.
Because of the location of the pillars, mounting drivers in the pillars results in a more consistent sound. It does not vary significantly once another person gets in the car because they arent directly in the path of the tweeters. Opening and closing of the windows can alter the sound (changing environmental characteristics) however it's still no where near the extent at which it's altered by intruing objects in the kicks.
Personally, my optimal solution would be a tweeter and midrange located within 5cm of each other in the pillars - however getting a proper midrange (i.e. a cone midrange that can play smooth and low) into the pillars with sufficient volume is not a realistic option in many cars. Often the environment just doesn't permit it.
My secondary option is a tweeter in the pillars, a midrange located in a sealed enclosure somewhere of simlar distance (probably somewhere on the door) and a dedicated midbass in a seperate sealed enclosure, and also somewhere of similar distance and where appropriate volume can be achieved (probably on the floor, or a door mounted enclosure).
Optimally I'd then mount the sub somewhere either level with, or in front of the passengers. somewhere such as a footwell, floor, etc.Again this is in the 'optimal scenario' and not always possible.
Of significant importance is to ensure that crossover points are designed to suit the capabilities of your drivers, and to get driver responses as flat as possible. The more linear your drivers perform (frequency wise) the less you will notice image drifting, because their will be less cues 'jumping out at you' making particular frequencies (and hence the location of their sources) especially obvious.
By keeping distances and timing similar, driver output levels ballanced, and overall frequency response as flat as possible, you can trick the ears into believing all sound is coming from a single source, in turn optimising all (percieved) aspects of system performance. Your ears will know the highs are comin from high, but because they cant diffrentiate the different frequencies, they will 'assume' the midrange, midbass and subbass frequencies are coming from the same location.
Sadly, in the real world car environments can make achieving all of this things very difficult and borderline impossible.
As far as stage height vs speaker locations, I personally believe their is a significant impact. I'm not making any concrete generalisations of how height of a driver effects stage height, however what I will[/s] say is that from my experiences pillar/dash/sail mounted tweeter installs have always produced a higher stage then kick mounted installs.
I [i]have heard some kick mounted installs that have produced solid height (up around the top of the dash, maybe slightly above) but I've yet to hear a car with a kick mounted install that produced excellent height (significantly above the dash, half way up the windscreen).
The big issues I've found consistent with most kick based tweeter installs are either lack of consistency, or lack of outright performance. Because of the position of the tweeters, you usually get one of two scenarios. The first issue, is that having passengers / people in the front seats (as well as other objects) blocks the path of the tweeter and kills pretty much kills high frequency performance. This is fine for competitions (where you can just make sure you dont have anything in the way) but in the real world we often have to carry passengers, and the result is a system that never sounds consistent. Personally, i build a system because I want to enjoy music, not purely for winning trophies, to to me it's pointless having a system that doesn't perform with consistency every day.
You can get around the above problem more or less by mounting thet tweeters in the kicks heavilly off axis. This doesn't really solve the problem though. It eliminates the problem of consistency, but in a bad way. Rather then having bad peformance when something is in the way, you get bad performance all the time[/]. Off axis in pillars is bad - off axis in the kicks is even worse.
Running in the pillars introduces issues of its own. First of all, if you arent very careful about angle and placement, reflections can cause significant problems. You can never really completely eliminate them, but you [i]can reduce the impact to the point where it's not really significant enough to notice.
The second problem with pillars is that - unless you can put your mids there as well - it introduces greater difference in pathlength between tweeter and midrange. This different in distance can be somewhat improved using Time Alignment, however it can not be entirely eliminated. This can be somewhat gotten around by taking appropriate measurements of your environment, and locating a midrange location that most closely matches the distance of your tweeters. It is almost impossible to get those distances identical, but if you can get them 'pretty close' then any minor timing problems cause can be pretty much (audible) cleaned up with time alignment. Like any other form of tuning, Time Alignment won't make a terrible install good, bit it can make a good install brilliant.
Because of the location of the pillars, mounting drivers in the pillars results in a more consistent sound. It does not vary significantly once another person gets in the car because they arent directly in the path of the tweeters. Opening and closing of the windows can alter the sound (changing environmental characteristics) however it's still no where near the extent at which it's altered by intruing objects in the kicks.
Personally, my optimal solution would be a tweeter and midrange located within 5cm of each other in the pillars - however getting a proper midrange (i.e. a cone midrange that can play smooth and low) into the pillars with sufficient volume is not a realistic option in many cars. Often the environment just doesn't permit it.
My secondary option is a tweeter in the pillars, a midrange located in a sealed enclosure somewhere of simlar distance (probably somewhere on the door) and a dedicated midbass in a seperate sealed enclosure, and also somewhere of similar distance and where appropriate volume can be achieved (probably on the floor, or a door mounted enclosure).
Optimally I'd then mount the sub somewhere either level with, or in front of the passengers. somewhere such as a footwell, floor, etc.Again this is in the 'optimal scenario' and not always possible.
Of significant importance is to ensure that crossover points are designed to suit the capabilities of your drivers, and to get driver responses as flat as possible. The more linear your drivers perform (frequency wise) the less you will notice image drifting, because their will be less cues 'jumping out at you' making particular frequencies (and hence the location of their sources) especially obvious.
By keeping distances and timing similar, driver output levels ballanced, and overall frequency response as flat as possible, you can trick the ears into believing all sound is coming from a single source, in turn optimising all (percieved) aspects of system performance. Your ears will know the highs are comin from high, but because they cant diffrentiate the different frequencies, they will 'assume' the midrange, midbass and subbass frequencies are coming from the same location.
Sadly, in the real world car environments can make achieving all of this things very difficult and borderline impossible.
you have never heard a car with hight and the tweeters are down in the kicks???
WTF?? you need to go listen to some cars!
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=66450
thats one of my old score sheets from a few years ago, notice the 9 for hight? that aint no dash hight!
(and on a side note, look at the 15 for depth )
WTF?? you need to go listen to some cars!
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=66450
thats one of my old score sheets from a few years ago, notice the 9 for hight? that aint no dash hight!
(and on a side note, look at the 15 for depth
)
I can't make judgement based on scoresheets.
With all due respect to people who judge, I can only pass personal judgement on something I've heard for myself. I've heard quite a few cars over the years, and most of them (proabably 85% of them) have had kick mounted tweeters, and all have them have had height no better then 'average' or 'above average'.
Not by any means saying it's not possible, just that I have yet to hear it!
On the other hand, all pillar mounted installs I've heard have been consistently 'good' to 'excellent' for height with the exception of maybe one or two which were 'above average'.
Law of averages suggests to me that the safest bet for achieving a good stage height is by mounting speakers high.
*shrugs*
With all due respect to people who judge, I can only pass personal judgement on something I've heard for myself. I've heard quite a few cars over the years, and most of them (proabably 85% of them) have had kick mounted tweeters, and all have them have had height no better then 'average' or 'above average'.
Not by any means saying it's not possible, just that I have yet to hear it!
On the other hand, all pillar mounted installs I've heard have been consistently 'good' to 'excellent' for height with the exception of maybe one or two which were 'above average'.
Law of averages suggests to me that the safest bet for achieving a good stage height is by mounting speakers high.
*shrugs*
What ever happened to respect around here?
QUOTE (Five Star @ Jun 6 2008, 08:43 AM) 
What ever happened to respect around here?
Depends who you ask, I guess! Not sure who you are asking the question to though?
When I last had internet and I was here people were blasted for making jokes about the chrome flames of someones sub. "We're here to help, not to abuse people"
Now there's people allowed to treat others like crap because they have a few trophies? **** this.
Now there's people allowed to treat others like crap because they have a few trophies? **** this.
*double post - please delete*
QUOTE (Cyberpunky @ Jun 5 2008, 05:59 PM)
I really don't care about his or your feeling's(sorry).
If this is the case, then what makes you assume he cares about yours?
Sorry to break your heart, but given he started the thread for his own reasons I think his feelings in this context take preference over yours.
Sorry, but titles and trophy counts don't make you any better then anyone else - and despite what you may believe neither of those gives you the right to be a rude bastard either.
Like i said: If you do know as much as you love people to belive you do, and want to use that knowledge to benefit others (rather then just to flex your ego) then communicate your ideas in a respectful manner and people will listen to your thoughts.
On the other hand: If you're knowledge and communication skills are insufficient enough that you have to resort to rudeness or degradation to get people to listen to you, then maybe (just maybe) the problem is you, not them.
QUOTE (muzzy66 @ Jun 6 2008, 04:34 AM)
At the end of the day....
As far as stage height vs speaker locations, I personally believe their is a significant impact. I'm not making any concrete generalisations of how height of a driver effects stage height, however what I will[/s] say is that from my experiences pillar/dash/sail mounted tweeter installs have always produced a higher stage then kick mounted installs.
I [i]have heard some kick mounted installs that have produced solid height (up around the top of the dash, maybe slightly above) but I've yet to hear a car with a kick mounted install that produced excellent height (significantly above the dash, half way up the windscreen).
As far as stage height vs speaker locations, I personally believe their is a significant impact. I'm not making any concrete generalisations of how height of a driver effects stage height, however what I will[/s] say is that from my experiences pillar/dash/sail mounted tweeter installs have always produced a higher stage then kick mounted installs.
I [i]have heard some kick mounted installs that have produced solid height (up around the top of the dash, maybe slightly above) but I've yet to hear a car with a kick mounted install that produced excellent height (significantly above the dash, half way up the windscreen).
*I personally believe*...so you hear what you believe...hmmm now thats a surprise.
maybe you should just listen and be prepared to hear what you dont believe..
if you think all kicks will sound low then they will, cause your brain and eyes always over ride your ears
I train judges to forget what they know and just listen.
I really don't care if I hurt ppls feelings, and I don't care if you like me, or if you think the person who starts a thread bought real estate by asking etc. <<owns 70% of all internet space coz i was here first lol If you can show me where a thread is, in real spac,e and why someone owns it, then cool coz I think if you can, I can make some money lol
You cant break my heart gorgeous (mwah) coz I'd have to have a heart for you to break it.
trophy counts blah blah dont count. correct
am I better than you...who really cares...the net isnt a comp..I win in competition but thats judged fairley
what happens here is about thinking.
my alleged ugly words have only promoted and stimulated discussion, your *its like this* crap was dogma. get over your self
k so my communication skills suck by your account, then thats ok cause I really don't care. If me being condescending and rude and arrogant and a dick, make ppl like you, think twice before you post, then job done, but unfortunatly you take all this personally. I said more in this * install right and forget TA etc if your basics are wrong, then no amount of trickery can fix* than all of your self rightous , self induldgent, posts since.
you think this, you think that...blah blah...please explain what is wrong with the above...ie: install right and forget TA etc if your basics are wrong, then no amount of trickery can fix???
let me know when you want to kick your brain in and stop being bombastic and actually discuss the above...*I think a pillar*, I think kicks are low* etc...who cares
Punky
QUOTE (muzzy66 @ Jun 6 2008, 04:34 AM)
..., I personally believe their is a significant impact. I'm not making any concrete generalisations of how height of a driver effects stage height, however what I will[/s] say is that from my experiences pillar/dash/sail mounted tweeter installs have always produced a higher stage then kick mounted installs.
I [i]have heard some kick mounted installs that have produced solid height (up around the top of the dash, maybe slightly above) but I've yet to hear a car with a kick mounted install that produced excellent height (significantly above the dash, half way up the windscreen). ...
I [i]have heard some kick mounted installs that have produced solid height (up around the top of the dash, maybe slightly above) but I've yet to hear a car with a kick mounted install that produced excellent height (significantly above the dash, half way up the windscreen). ...
I'm not making any concrete generalisations(actually you are)....however(ie:but) from MY experience(fallacious arguement(appeal to authority))...high speaker = high stage. WRONG learn to listen
I have heard some kick mounted installs....BUT i 've yet to hear....so this all about you?
spare me
punky
this thread is funny.
the best place for the tweeters is where they sound the best.
where you put the tweeters is a tradeoff between what sounds the best, and what's practical.
that is all.
the best place for the tweeters is where they sound the best.
where you put the tweeters is a tradeoff between what sounds the best, and what's practical.
that is all.
no, this thread is embarrasing.
QUOTE (Cyberpunky @ Jun 7 2008, 06:06 PM)
*I personally believe*...so you hear what you believe...hmmm now thats a surprise.
maybe you should just listen and be prepared to hear what you dont believe..
I train judges to forget what they know and just listen.
maybe you should just listen and be prepared to hear what you dont believe..
I train judges to forget what they know and just listen.
If your judges require special training to learn that, then maybe they shouldn't be judges...
QUOTE
if you think all kicks will sound low then they will, cause your brain and eyes always over ride your ears
I don't know exactly what form or mental disability you (and the others around you) have, but when I get into a car and listen I hear what I hear, not what I think.
I'm sorry, did you struggle to understand that? Maybe I should say it a little more slowly, so that your mind and your ears can stop arguing with each other and correctly read my words. After all, given that your mind affects what you hear so much, surely it also affect what you see (and thus read)!
QUOTE
I really don't care if I hurt ppls feelings, and I don't care if you like me, or if you think the person who starts a thread bought real estate by asking etc. <<owns 70% of all internet space coz i was here first lol If you can show me where a thread is, in real spac,e and why someone owns it, then cool coz I think if you can, I can make some money lol
I don't really know how you managed to make an association between posts in a thread, and real estate ownership. Perhaps it's those same old mental issues coming back up? It's ok, I understand.
QUOTE
am I better than you...who really cares...the net isnt a comp..I win in competition but thats judged fairley
Good for you sunshine. I'm proud of you - really!
Gotta love those token opportunities to advertise the ego, aye?
QUOTE
my alleged ugly words have only promoted and stimulated discussion, your *its like this* crap was dogma. get over your self
I would get over myself, but I can't. You see darling, i'm still too focussed on trying to get over you. Can't you see it? I love you - I can't live without you. Please be my mistress!
You see, I don't have an ego at all - nothing to get over on my side!
QUOTE
* install right and forget TA etc if your basics are wrong, then no amount of trickery can fix* than all of your self rightous , self induldgent, posts since.
QUOTE
you think this, you think that...blah blah...please explain what is wrong with the above...ie: install right and forget TA etc if your basics are wrong, then no amount of trickery can fix???
It's just as much wrong as it is right.
See, your "if your basics are wrong, then no amount of tricker can fix it" is correct. Garbage in garbage out, as the concept goes. You can't turn $hit into gold by kicking it around.
However, the other part of your statement "install right forget time alignment" is flawed.
In a car environment, time alignment will pretty much always improve how the system sounds if used in the right way. This is because It's pretty much impossible to have a car environment where you can get every single driver physically synchronised. The environmental limitations restrict potential driver locations, and as such Time Alignment is required in practically every car system (to some degree or other) if you want to achieve optimal sound performance.
If you just put your drivers in where they are fairly close and cross your sub over a stupidly low frequencies to try to counter for localisation that isn't enough to make TA unecessary.
To be brutally honest, I think you just diss 'electronic trickery' because you don't know how to use it effectively, and diss 'theory' because you don't understand it.
Oh my, did I just say that aloud?
Can't we all just be freinds? 
Of course we can!! I'm not going to go any further with the freak show regardless of what lovely, selfless posts are sure to follow! I've had my fun, time to move on and return the thread to it's rightful 'owner' !
*It is well known that discrepancies in the location of synchronized auditory and visual events can lead to mislocalizations of the auditory source, so-called ventriloquism*
source :-Bertelson, P. and Vroomen, J. and De Gelder, B. and Driver, J. (2000) The ventriloquist effect does not depend on the direction of visual attention. Perception and Psychophysics , 62 (2 ). pp.321 - 332 . ISSN 00315117
*In situations of audio–visual interaction, research has generally found that audition prevails over vision in temporal perception, while vision is dominant over audition for spatial perception. *
source:-Yuji Wada, , a, Norimichi Kitagawab and Kaoru Noguchia
a Department of Psychology, Nihon University, 3-25-40 Sakurajousui, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo
In your case you see speakers mounted low, trust your vision and hear a low stage...just a thought for you einstein lol
ppl need to be trained because visual spatial location is much easier and also more dominant, than audiotry spacial location. you need to learn to listen, unless your blind. That why judges are trained and when learning, are encouraged to listen with eyes closed. Many including myself, still close eyes when listen for spatial locations.
Of course you know all this, I'm sure lol
*To be brutally honest, I think you just diss 'electronic trickery' because you don't know how to use it effectively, and diss 'theory' because you don't understand it.*
I not only understand it, and more, I have also been messing with it for a lot longer than you, but I also know why its not needed.
maybe you should open your mind *neo* and make the jump.
Maybe everyone else is crazy(sorry suffering from a group mental disability) and your the only sane one, and by accussing myself and others of needing help, that its makes you feel better about yourself, and your self righteous, yet illinformed opinions. Maybe you should consider that you are actually wrong, about this? Are you and your ego even humble enough to consider this as the slightlest possibillity of being the case ?
Punky
source :-Bertelson, P. and Vroomen, J. and De Gelder, B. and Driver, J. (2000) The ventriloquist effect does not depend on the direction of visual attention. Perception and Psychophysics , 62 (2 ). pp.321 - 332 . ISSN 00315117
*In situations of audio–visual interaction, research has generally found that audition prevails over vision in temporal perception, while vision is dominant over audition for spatial perception. *
source:-Yuji Wada, , a, Norimichi Kitagawab and Kaoru Noguchia
a Department of Psychology, Nihon University, 3-25-40 Sakurajousui, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo
In your case you see speakers mounted low, trust your vision and hear a low stage...just a thought for you einstein lol
ppl need to be trained because visual spatial location is much easier and also more dominant, than audiotry spacial location. you need to learn to listen, unless your blind. That why judges are trained and when learning, are encouraged to listen with eyes closed. Many including myself, still close eyes when listen for spatial locations.
Of course you know all this, I'm sure lol
*To be brutally honest, I think you just diss 'electronic trickery' because you don't know how to use it effectively, and diss 'theory' because you don't understand it.*
I not only understand it, and more, I have also been messing with it for a lot longer than you, but I also know why its not needed.
maybe you should open your mind *neo* and make the jump.
Maybe everyone else is crazy(sorry suffering from a group mental disability) and your the only sane one, and by accussing myself and others of needing help, that its makes you feel better about yourself, and your self righteous, yet illinformed opinions. Maybe you should consider that you are actually wrong, about this? Are you and your ego even humble enough to consider this as the slightlest possibillity of being the case ?
Punky
just my 2 cents....
going from running my tweets on the dash (stock location, VS commodore, pointing up at the windscreen) to running them coaxially with the mid in the doors didnt lower my sound stage in the slightest....
cept now music sounds truely 3d, you can really 'focus' on particular instruments in a song... you even hear stuff you otherwise just wouldnt catch. its a lot like wearing headphones. also removed any suggestion that the boston tweets were 'harsh'
going from running my tweets on the dash (stock location, VS commodore, pointing up at the windscreen) to running them coaxially with the mid in the doors didnt lower my sound stage in the slightest....
cept now music sounds truely 3d, you can really 'focus' on particular instruments in a song... you even hear stuff you otherwise just wouldnt catch. its a lot like wearing headphones. also removed any suggestion that the boston tweets were 'harsh'
If the speakers are audibly transparent, then you should not 'hear' the height they are physically located.
Kick panel installs can not only sound higher than the dash, but also further away than the speakers themselves. It is always a battle of compromise, but the challenge is half the fun.
Kick panel installs can not only sound higher than the dash, but also further away than the speakers themselves. It is always a battle of compromise, but the challenge is half the fun.
aww please don't quit now...it was just getting fun
I just crawled out from under my rock to rub some sticks together and make a fire, and bask in its warmth, while I read how stoopid I am...please don't let me down man
<<<knows you are still reading this but won't respond because your wrong(IMHO) lol ahh 24 and know it all, nice one.
pfft @ ppl needing training...we should all be 24 and know it all...I mean a 1 day old baby already knows how to listen lol
Punky
I just crawled out from under my rock to rub some sticks together and make a fire, and bask in its warmth, while I read how stoopid I am...please don't let me down man
<<<knows you are still reading this but won't respond because your wrong(IMHO) lol ahh 24 and know it all, nice one.
pfft @ ppl needing training...we should all be 24 and know it all...I mean a 1 day old baby already knows how to listen lol
Punky
QUOTE (muzzy66 @ Jun 6 2008, 05:44 PM)
I can't make judgement based on scoresheets.
With all due respect to people who judge, I can only pass personal judgement on something I've heard for myself. I've heard quite a few cars over the years, and most of them (proabably 85% of them) have had kick mounted tweeters, and all have them have had height no better then 'average' or 'above average'.
Not by any means saying it's not possible, just that I have yet to hear it!
On the other hand, all pillar mounted installs I've heard have been consistently 'good' to 'excellent' for height with the exception of maybe one or two which were 'above average'.
Law of averages suggests to me that the safest bet for achieving a good stage height is by mounting speakers high.
*shrugs*
With all due respect to people who judge, I can only pass personal judgement on something I've heard for myself. I've heard quite a few cars over the years, and most of them (proabably 85% of them) have had kick mounted tweeters, and all have them have had height no better then 'average' or 'above average'.
Not by any means saying it's not possible, just that I have yet to hear it!
On the other hand, all pillar mounted installs I've heard have been consistently 'good' to 'excellent' for height with the exception of maybe one or two which were 'above average'.
Law of averages suggests to me that the safest bet for achieving a good stage height is by mounting speakers high.
*shrugs*
unfortuanly i have listen to alot of cars from up your way with kick mounted tweeters and well.. if thats all you have to go by then of course you wouldnt know what hight is.
only one car from NSW that i have heard with good hight and that was MrBob from a few years ago, and yes he had his in the kicks too *WOW!!*
seriously, you really need to go listen to some more cars that sound good.
crap like this makes me wanna compete again just to prove you people wrong AGAIN.
once i sort out my car sitch, ill build it, ill compete and i wont use TA, and if like the Eunos, i wont even run any EQ!!
hate to say it muzzy, but Bruce know's way more than you ever will. it was from people like bruce that i learnt and i succeeded.
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