I just finished installing my new system
boston z6's running active with a g5 sub.

the sub sounds great, and hasnt even broken in yet

my system is all active, with tweeters in kick panels and mids in doors (stock location) from my last install, lateron i plan to bring the mids out and possibly angle them in my Altezza / IS200

sub is LP @ 60 or 71 hz, i cant remeber @ 18 db/oct
Midbass is 71 or 80 hz @ 18 db/ oct
Midrange is 2.5khz hz @ 24 db/oct
tweeters is 3.6 khz @ 18 db/oct i think

Im still playing around with the x-over settings, if anyone has any suggestions, id be quite happy to hear them

I have a h701 processor and alpine headunit to control it with..
I've just finished setting the x-over points.. to which im quite satisfied with, althought could possibly tweak it somewhat more.

I still need to Eq the system, and set up the T/A



would I be better trying to tune by ear? or should I skip this and use a RTA? or a combination of both?

if you've got access to an RTA, I would first tune by ear, then have a look at your RTA readings and see how good your ears are at picking up the peaks and troughs. Once you've tweaked a bit more, take a note out of Obi Wan's book, put the testing instruments away and use the force. Or your ears, whichever is the most accurate.

seems like a rather large gap in the tweeter / mid xover?

First of all. Its very hard to give tuning advice over the net as 1, we are not familiar with your install, and 2. There are to many variables.

However, some thinks ill like to mention simply from experience of what Ive heard in other cars. Matching crossover slopes on the midrange to tweeter is always a good idea. And using "even" slopes tends to be better, ie 12db or 24db/octave. using 6db, and 18db can cause some weird phase changes that are very hard to correct for in an active setup.

Between 2.5-3.5khz would probably sound best for a mid-tweet crossover. From me memory, the Boston tweeters arnt a massive fan of playing to low, and the Boston Mid has a decent midrange, so a figure of about 3.2khz or a fraction higher would probably be good. But remember, this depends on placement of speakers, and car acoustics.

Most would agree the steeper the slope on your sub, the better it will blend. I tend to think most subs to 6.5inch midwoofers should be crossover over at 80hz. There are not many 6.5inch midbass speakers that can play flat to 63hz, let alone midwoofers (like the Boston Z6s). Again, from memory of hearing to the bostons, the sub-mid crossover should be either 80-100hz, on a 24db slope.

To try some experiments, you can try using a 12db slope on the mid, to try to bring some bass upfront. It may work, or it may not.

The gap between your mid and tweeter would be the first thing i would change.

One of the best, and easiest ways to tune is to burn yourself a CD full of Sinewaves (there are many sites that let you download sinewaves for free), Try to get sinewaves that suit your Decks tuning features, ie, same frequencies as you can adjust.

Then sit in your car, and play with crossover points trying to keep all three drivers flat from 20-20000hz. Once you think your crossovers are suitable, then, you can perhaps start using small amounts of EQ.

Just a word of warning. In my car, a crossover point of 2khz sounds best, however, if anything more than moderate volumed music is played, the audible distortion on the tweeters as to great, so, i settled on a 3.2 crossover point.

Now why cant more people post relevant, practical and informative stuff like that?

Take note you mob, this is what us n00bs need - not your egos, not your 3 line posts, not your ranting at other members or taking the p!ss or telling them to "open their mind" or "go back to school".

This is what we really want. Coupled with a discussion about why you do this, in a practical, easy to understand way, is gold.

Thanks again dude!

MAtt

My experience with the boston Z6 mid is it can't take low bass very well at all.

once you hit 70hz x/over point, 18db is the minimum, at 12db it tops out and coughs and splutters and distorts at moderate volumes, if you only play your system quiet or you have 2 in each door you might be ok. (makes no difference how much power you have most of the ones I've played with where running on GT28's 300W a speaker.)

but if you like the rest of us who like to play loud most of the time, a 71hz 24db cut or 80hz 18/24 is going to be the best you can make do with, without eq'ing some of the bass out.

I also found the Z6 midbass has a funny peaky sounding midbass sound, which makes it sound like it has alot of midbass, but in actual fact the midbass it produces is at a higher frequency than what is really desired, so will take some work to smooth that out. Don't be surprised if your bass sounds strange. I'd like to describe the sound as warm, but it isn't.. it's just wierd and unnatural.

The tweeter isn't anything special, don't cross it too low or you'll struggle with brightness. It seems to work best off the passive.
you can Bi Wire the passive, so no real reason why you can't use it.

My suggestion, is to set the subwoofer LP at 80hz 24db, Midbass HP 80hz 24db (try 12db, but if it's dying at high volume, you'll have to switch back to 24db)

then run bi wire through the stock crossover, failing that, suggest a 3.2khz - 4khz cross point, for best midbass response use a 24db low pass on the midbass, and run a 12-24db hp on the tweeter. This is sometimes difficult if the tweeter can't keep up, and you are forced to compromise midbass output by running a 12db lp on the midbass driver.. but thats what you often get with 2 way split sets.

regards
Juls

wow some amazing replies, theres a bit for me to chew over now.

yeah Im having issues with trying to adjust the gains and speaker levels

as my mids are getting 400 w rms per side and tweeters around 35 w rms
i did change over the x-over points again tonight, i cant remember want i set them at though

im not happy about the tweeters though, they seem to be very sort of quiet.. and dont have is much detail as when running them in passive mode, if I lower the x-over point they get overly bright, so i lower the midrange, and then the sound is boxy sounding... (is there where i need to cut the frequency they both crossover at? on the EQ? )

also to mention, the tweeters are brand spanking new out of the box, whether this has anything to do with the sound for a tweeter?

the EQ is flat at the moment, as im trying to get the x-over points correct on the speakers first

or should I EQ the system as the same time?




Also tomorrow I plan to turn the tweeter gain up a little, as i have the mids turned right down on the headunit, as well as gains set low on mid amp

i want to try without using passives this time, i failed with the P80rs lol but want to give this a go on the w200 + h701 combo as I have many more tuning features on it.

Also the g5 sub sounds great, very nice tight bass and it hits hard ! the bass seems alot nicer than my idmax10 which was getting 1200 w rms in a sealed box. but both are good subs imho
its in a sealed box at 1.5 cu ft at 900 w rms



bleh! my post is over the place! hopefully this makes sense..

actually little update...
decided to sit in the car at midnight

adjusted tweeters to 3.6 khz @ 24 db/oct
LP Mids 2.8 khz @ 24
HP mids at 71hz @ 24

readjusted gains on tweeter amp and changed speaker levels on mid and tweeter channels
the sound is much more balanced between the tweeter / midrange frequencies

the first post, the x-over points were a little similar, this time i found the memory preset button which helps haha, as i was wondering where my settings were going!

Im much happier with it now, esp adjusting the tweeter gain.. which I turned a fraction up

Had a play around with the EQ, had to cut some of the freq from 1.2khz to 2 khz, as they seem to peak there, they did in my last install too, must be the way I have installed the speakers.

Just have to get my head around the time alignment function on it, im use to pioneers auto time alignment doing everything for me haha

Matt, you may like ppl to post do this or try that type responses but...in this situation, we are talking about 64 different possible slopes, before we even get to freqs, slope should be set at.

Sure I could say I use this, and try that, but the bottom line is, it cost 's nothing to play and the way to educate your ears isnt by being told, its about listening and trying' and then listening again. If I could give you a shortcut I would....please dont think that there is a shortcut.

I disagree with a fair bit of reccomendations above. Im not saying what suggested wont work, but using another guy's idea about how stuff is, doesnt teach you anything....sure my way, is do the hard yards, and for younger generation(net enabled from birth) that sucks but craftmanship isnt something anyone learns at a 1 day seminar
it is what it is...*work hard* will never be popular but if you do work hard, I know for a fact, its more rewarding than getting a cheat code off the net
later
cyberpunky

Punky I couldn't agree with you more. Playing around with different slopes, points and speaker positions by yourself in your own car with your own speakers is the only way to educate yourself in the practicalities. However, n00bs (just like me) need to start somewhere, and having someone like arenbe post up that sort of stuff actually, in my humble opinion, is a really great way to start learning. As you pointed out, it's only one person's view of the way things should be done, and it should be accepted as that, not the gospel. What I REALLY like seeing in these sort of posts is, quite simply

what someone thinks the problem might be

their possible solution

why they chose that solution

the theory behind it.

All I was trying to put across in my post was to implore the senior guys here, the guys (like you mate) who have real knowledge about this sort of thing, to help out in a way that we can understand. My way of learning from the internet is to try and piece together all the differing information from the people who know what they're talking about, use that information as a guide and make my own way forward. Tricky, inefficient, but thats how I do it.

peace bro.

Matt VIP

Definitely give it a play, and listen to the results, but keep in mind that practise without understanding gets you no-where fast. Understanding the results of what you are changing, and associating that with the resulting sounds, is a powerful way to gain knowledge.

For example, whilst a lot of people champion 24dB/oct slopes because of their absolute phase change of 360degrees, such a change can easily result in relative phase differences at the listening location. Dont disregard 12's and 18's just because of their phase change.

Also, 6dB slopes can be extremely powerful, when utilised correctly. It is the only slope with a phase perfect response. And you dont necessarily need LP filters on mids, I've run speakers without a topend cut before (ones with low audibility breakup nodes) and they can sound extremely good. Utilising the acoustic responses produced through beaming can be a really good way to remove unwanted artifacts.

A crossover does more then just remove unwanted frequencies. Its also not the only way of doing it, in some cases. Beware the phase changes, because this will, more then anything else, remove the realism.

thanks for the replies again, much appreciated, will give continue to play around with my speakers! but in a good way

Why not look at where your weak point is in regards to SQ, that would be how low your tweets could play. Try and avoid pushing it closer to the weak points to fast .

thanks for replies again,

I remebered a friend saying to me that the old boston pro's didn't actually have a crossover on the mids but a notch filter?
also the fact matt, recommended to run them without a top end cut has made a huge difference to the sound!


they sound awefully similar to the passive setup which is good for me!

so far the tweeters are on 3.6khz @ 24 db - may change this later on, but atm sounds decent
the mids however are on HP 71 hz @ 24 db and LP 4khz with a 6 db cutoff point

Im getting a hell of lot more detail and the sound isnt as boxy sounding now, midbass seems to be drowned out yet again, hence why I have brought the Hp on the mids down to 71hz, if they cant handle it, I might have to raise them up, id rather not boost any mid bass frequencies just yet.

so far sounds pretty decent to me

havent even done the time alignment yet and it sounds good

now I have to figure out how to manually adjust the time alignment