Hello,
i have the Iridium 6.2 running off an audison vrx 4.300.2 and really love the DLS which is an amazing set of speaker, but i want a more dynamic speaker, one of my friends has the focal k2p and his amp is the focal fp2.150.. i've listened to them many times but found them a tiny sounding speaker and lack the depth my iridium has.. so would like to know if the tiny sound from the focals is due to the install or not?
thanks
Full Version: focal speakers lack depth?
I have a pair of K2Ps and an FP 2.150 - can't say I think it sounds tinny though - sounds great to my ears..... has he got the amps high pass filter on??? I actually did think they were a bit tinny until I realised the HU treble was wound right up..... poor installer must have noise induced deafness and lost his high freqs!
It could be install, if not done correctly it can make good speakers sound terrible. cheap speakers installed right can sound great. it could just be the way your ears perceive the sound from those speakers. I am focal fan and have been since the first set i have heard. To me they sound smooth but others say they are harsh, its a personel thing
another focal fan right here.
are the doors sound deadened? this will def make any speaker sound better.
otherwise play around with the eq on the hu (if he has one) to see if some of the frequenices are peaking or playing louder than others.
are the doors sound deadened? this will def make any speaker sound better.
otherwise play around with the eq on the hu (if he has one) to see if some of the frequenices are peaking or playing louder than others.
QUOTE (bmroxm5 @ Jun 21 2008, 06:40 PM) 
another focal fan right here.
are the doors sound deadened? this will def make any speaker sound better.
otherwise play around with the eq on the hu (if he has one) to see if some of the frequenices are peaking or playing louder than others.
are the doors sound deadened? this will def make any speaker sound better.
otherwise play around with the eq on the hu (if he has one) to see if some of the frequenices are peaking or playing louder than others.
I have a polyglass set up in my minitruck and am currently buying K series stuff for the accord euro ill be getting at the end of the year, have the 40kx so far i get the mid bass next week. going active this time round with ppi amps. I am def a fan
I dont think any speaker can be taken lightly and called average.
I know speakers can have awesome sounding midbass whilst they are mounted and enclosed poorly, like in a speaker board or a leaky open door, but put them into sometype of enclosure as in a sealed door and u have isues with to much midbass , while the speaker that had nice midbass that wasnt above the midrange sounds it was playing can be somewhat enclosed and whalla , u have the awesomeness of a quality woofer.
Thats why u can never pass off anything unless installed in the same enviroment .Look at all the champs, they have a similar theory which is install and listen , then listen again.
A top speaker in a door that is very thin(outer door panel next to the magnet will be different to the same speaker in a door thats deep.
I know speakers can have awesome sounding midbass whilst they are mounted and enclosed poorly, like in a speaker board or a leaky open door, but put them into sometype of enclosure as in a sealed door and u have isues with to much midbass , while the speaker that had nice midbass that wasnt above the midrange sounds it was playing can be somewhat enclosed and whalla , u have the awesomeness of a quality woofer.
Thats why u can never pass off anything unless installed in the same enviroment .Look at all the champs, they have a similar theory which is install and listen , then listen again.
A top speaker in a door that is very thin(outer door panel next to the magnet will be different to the same speaker in a door thats deep.
Small thin doors in small cars are usually hopeless for depth from the speaker.
I've fitted a set of K2p's in a 121, fully sealed doors, the whole bit, but to be honest
it was disapointing, the same speakers fitted well in a VZ Commodore in well deadend (semi sealed) basically the same treatment, sounded like i had a subwoofer fitted running full pass..
completely stunning difference, certain cars will always have bad sound, theres not much you can do about it.. thats why i always laugh when people say "buy good speakers and you won't need a eq"
it's a joke.. only time that holds true is if every person ran the same cars, with the same install with the same amps, same cables, same headunit ect ect.
In the right car, the K2p's have excellent midbass, if done properly can easily give you that kick in the chest.
the best X/over point for them is around 70hz 12db.. most midbass drivers in that pricerange and higher, cannot handle
that type of x/over point at high volumes, and normally have to run 18 and 24db cuts to stop them bottoming out and killing themselves. (when adequate power is delivered)
Juls
I've fitted a set of K2p's in a 121, fully sealed doors, the whole bit, but to be honest
it was disapointing, the same speakers fitted well in a VZ Commodore in well deadend (semi sealed) basically the same treatment, sounded like i had a subwoofer fitted running full pass..
completely stunning difference, certain cars will always have bad sound, theres not much you can do about it.. thats why i always laugh when people say "buy good speakers and you won't need a eq"
it's a joke.. only time that holds true is if every person ran the same cars, with the same install with the same amps, same cables, same headunit ect ect.
In the right car, the K2p's have excellent midbass, if done properly can easily give you that kick in the chest.
the best X/over point for them is around 70hz 12db.. most midbass drivers in that pricerange and higher, cannot handle
that type of x/over point at high volumes, and normally have to run 18 and 24db cuts to stop them bottoming out and killing themselves. (when adequate power is delivered)
Juls
why oh why would you want to go from DLS Iridium to Focal K2P, the DLS are a much better speaker in my opinion
i think the iridiums are a little too laid back for my taste after a year enjoying them!:-)
fair enough, i prefer a more laid back sound
I found the Focals ok, but nothing special, but hey, we all have different tastes
I found the Focals ok, but nothing special, but hey, we all have different tastes
i really wasn't much impressed by the focals and i've listened to them many many times, but i wan't more dynamics out of my speakers when i'm listening to rock and trance.
Its an interesting notion about lacking dynamics.A plain speaker may be more linear sounding, Instant dynamics is slapping the EQ on loud or powerful or super bass, then that same speaker is really dynamic.EQ is dynamics.Smooth speakers are the bomb.
er, no.
Real dynamics is only achieved through efficiency and utilizing oversized speakers or arrays.
Run PA gear for music, such as horns and 10" mids with 12" and 15" midbasses, all with sensitivity above 98/99db 1W/1M then come talk to me about dynamics.
Real dynamics is only achieved through efficiency and utilizing oversized speakers or arrays.
Run PA gear for music, such as horns and 10" mids with 12" and 15" midbasses, all with sensitivity above 98/99db 1W/1M then come talk to me about dynamics.
well i wonder why u can make your sytem sound dynamic using a loud button.
what i loved about the focals was the excellent vocals, they were in your face , very dynamic and so life like.the dls vocals are excellent as well but i think they aren't as dynamic but very musical. the focal tweeters are very bright for my taste and the only worry is that if can i tame the brightness or not! :-)
and the most thing that makes me buy the k2p is the rave reviews about audison+focal match and i have an audison vrx 4.300.2! :-)
and the most thing that makes me buy the k2p is the rave reviews about audison+focal match and i have an audison vrx 4.300.2! :-)
the tweeters are tameable, run it on an rta and smoooth it out with a decent eq
Love my focals, When i first installed mine i felt they lacked kick a bit but since i have sound deadened the doors and fed them 130rms each they LOVE to kick 
Are his doors deadened?
Are his doors deadened?
QUOTE (farshad @ Jun 24 2008, 04:31 AM)
what i loved about the focals was the excellent vocals, they were in your face , very dynamic and so life like.the dls vocals are excellent as well but i think they aren't as dynamic but very musical. the focal tweeters are very bright for my taste and the only worry is that if can i tame the brightness or not! :-)
and the most thing that makes me buy the k2p is the rave reviews about audison+focal match and i have an audison vrx 4.300.2! :-)
and the most thing that makes me buy the k2p is the rave reviews about audison+focal match and i have an audison vrx 4.300.2! :-)
If your smart and do everything properly, and your car is suited to audio, then you'll not be disapointed by the K2p... that being said if your car isn't suited to Audio.. doesn't matter what you buy, you'll never be satisfied. It's so hard to rate a speaker based on listening to it in a random install.. the only way you can really rate or decide if a speaker is or isn't good.. is to spend some time installing them in various cars, tuning with them, playing them and listening to them in multiple enviroments. Having a quick listen in someone elses car isn't going to help.. the difference from one car to the next is massive.. in one car they could be total Ass and in the next could be totally incredible. The only way you'll ever know is to try it yourself.
If you can't get a K2p to sound good, then your doing something wrong. Or your car sux as a audio environment
Juls
Focal K2P's are a brilliant speaker set - easilly one of the best car audio sets I've heard regardless of price.
If installed and tuned properly, they should definately not sound tinny or lack depth. Down to around 100hz the K2P's perform with an accuracy unmatched by some speaker sets in significantly higher price points.
Some speakers tend to peak in certain midbass regions, creating a sound that comes through as unnaturally heavy and 'droney'. This can causes negative results as it often adds unnatural depth to femal vocals, and causes lower male vocals to dominate tracks unnaturally. It can also result in bass that is muddy, and lacks sophistication.
Some other speakers struggle to play low enough, and as such they lack significant output in the bottom end (80hz-160hz, particularly). Such speakers create a sound that comes through as tinny, and lacking solidity. The result is lack of detail in bass notes, missed drum beats, bass hits that don't really seem to come through, etc. Another commen effect of this is that deep male vocals lack solidity, and sound unnaturally frail.
The Focal K2P's are one of the few speaker sets I've heard that don't fall into either category. They are beautifully neutral in the lower frequencies, with a nicely ballanced midbass response down to around 100hz. Down to this frequency, they will hit almost every note with precision and finesse. It's only once you press them to play below 100hz that they start to pretty heavilly fall off, and you end up with a bit of a hole. Pushing it, you can run them down to 80hz, but any less then that and you will loose too much bottom end. Personally, I'd keep them crossed at 120hz in a good enclosure just to be safe, but it depends on where/how they are mounted.
The speakers do have a small amount of peakiness in the absolute top end, but this is only a factor when mounted 100% on axis, which is an extreme rarity in a car. For them to sound 'tinny' I would say the tweeter level is too high. Perhaps he has set his tweeter level to +3dB or so to try to counter for the lack of top end when mounted off axis. The result is that the entire tweeter level is increased, not just the section that has rolled off. This means that the tweeters end up with a big peak fro the crossover point up until where they begin to roll off, and because this frequency band is so wide it creates a 'tinny' effect. I'd check those crossover settings, because if K2P's are sounding tinny something is definately wrong!
If installed and tuned properly, they should definately not sound tinny or lack depth. Down to around 100hz the K2P's perform with an accuracy unmatched by some speaker sets in significantly higher price points.
Some speakers tend to peak in certain midbass regions, creating a sound that comes through as unnaturally heavy and 'droney'. This can causes negative results as it often adds unnatural depth to femal vocals, and causes lower male vocals to dominate tracks unnaturally. It can also result in bass that is muddy, and lacks sophistication.
Some other speakers struggle to play low enough, and as such they lack significant output in the bottom end (80hz-160hz, particularly). Such speakers create a sound that comes through as tinny, and lacking solidity. The result is lack of detail in bass notes, missed drum beats, bass hits that don't really seem to come through, etc. Another commen effect of this is that deep male vocals lack solidity, and sound unnaturally frail.
The Focal K2P's are one of the few speaker sets I've heard that don't fall into either category. They are beautifully neutral in the lower frequencies, with a nicely ballanced midbass response down to around 100hz. Down to this frequency, they will hit almost every note with precision and finesse. It's only once you press them to play below 100hz that they start to pretty heavilly fall off, and you end up with a bit of a hole. Pushing it, you can run them down to 80hz, but any less then that and you will loose too much bottom end. Personally, I'd keep them crossed at 120hz in a good enclosure just to be safe, but it depends on where/how they are mounted.
The speakers do have a small amount of peakiness in the absolute top end, but this is only a factor when mounted 100% on axis, which is an extreme rarity in a car. For them to sound 'tinny' I would say the tweeter level is too high. Perhaps he has set his tweeter level to +3dB or so to try to counter for the lack of top end when mounted off axis. The result is that the entire tweeter level is increased, not just the section that has rolled off. This means that the tweeters end up with a big peak fro the crossover point up until where they begin to roll off, and because this frequency band is so wide it creates a 'tinny' effect. I'd check those crossover settings, because if K2P's are sounding tinny something is definately wrong!
The K2P's I have in my 06 Focus kick very nicely. Doors sealed, deadend and Plain Chant installed. These give a better kick than some Dyn's I heard in an 08 Liberty running off a Tru-Tech Billet Series. 
BTW: As you can see I am only running via a LOC. When I hooked it up to an old Alpine HU as a test, they improved again.
BTW: As you can see I am only running via a LOC. When I hooked it up to an old Alpine HU as a test, they improved again.
QUOTE (muzzy66 @ Jun 25 2008, 02:55 PM)
It's only once you press them to play below 100hz that they start to pretty heavilly fall off, and you end up with a bit of a hole. Pushing it, you can run them down to 80hz, but any less then that and you will loose too much bottom end. Personally, I'd keep them crossed at 120hz in a good enclosure just to be safe, but it depends on where/how they are mounted.
My experience is that the K2p, can quite easily handle a 80hz 12db cut.. very easily, 70hz 12db is no probs.. one of very few speakers than can handle this crossover point without bottoming out or distorting at higher and extreme volume levels.
Running off axis they provide plenty of output down to 80hz, so a 80hz 24db cut on the sub works fine. but if you run them on axis (as with almost any 6.5" midbass) then you do tend to loose the lower end and roll off starts earlier (like 120hz like you say)
The downside of the off axis mounting is they start to roll off around 2khz and the tweeter struggles to fill this in, meaning your forced to run a 6/12db lp cut on the midbass. instead of a 24db which you could run when they are on axis.
However.. around 2-4khz is where alot of the harshness in any speaker set is heard, so a bit of a dip there isn't really a issue, in many cases it's a blessing in disguise.
Juls
No question driver can handle it mechanically (i.e. without bottoming out), it just won't produce enough sound down there.
The low frequency roll-off below 100hz - 120hz is (in my understanding) a result of the physical limitations of the driver - I don't belive that mounting it off axis will cause it to play any lower, especially if it's in a car door.
I think the only way you'll get it to play down below that is to run it inside a ported enclosure.
The low frequency roll-off below 100hz - 120hz is (in my understanding) a result of the physical limitations of the driver - I don't belive that mounting it off axis will cause it to play any lower, especially if it's in a car door.
I think the only way you'll get it to play down below that is to run it inside a ported enclosure.
QUOTE (muzzy66 @ Jun 25 2008, 06:11 PM)
I don't belive that mounting it off axis will cause it to play any lower, especially if it's in a car door.
It doesn't play any lower.. apologies I should have been more clear.. you just get more
cabin gain (or something like it, i'm not going to get technical here) in the lower midbass frequencys. It's more of a general thing not really specific to the K2p. And it doesn't neccessary work in every car, or every installation. I found it works the best in low mounting positions (lower front corner of a door). Off axis just has a noticeably increased low end extension compared to roughly on axis in that particular arrangement. Higher/closer speaker placements may not have the same effect.
Juls.
the focal's have depth....from memory its about 7 cm ish lol
its install, its install, its install.
next
peace
Cyberpunky
its install, its install, its install.
next
peace
Cyberpunky
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