Hi all,
I'm running my DLS Iridium 6.2i off an Audison VRx 4.300 and feel this combo sounds a bit too warm, is it worth to go with the ARC SE 4200 which supposed to be a much more transparent amp? or should i change the speakers? many people say that audison+Focal is a perfect match but I've heard the focals many times and much prefer the natural sound of the Iridiums! so i'm waiting for the advices...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42701
Werent you satisfied with these responses? And why are you asking the same question, when you had previously stated that you made your mind up (and disregarded the SEs)?

I was under the impression that some of the dealers in that thread had convinced you to try either the Foose or the Steels. If so, why are you jumping on here asking the original question (disregarding the excellent advice of those that gave it in the other thread)?

Question for you. Are you in Dubai, as your details state on DIYMA, or are you in NSW, as your details state on MEA?

I dont know about anyone else, but something smells off here....

If you don't enter a location it automaticly goes to NSW

please don't meddle!

Change both. Go the SE amps and change the speakers to rainbow platinum.

Thanks Dan, explains that one!

And Farshad, I'm not meddling at all. I'm one of a small population on here that have used both amps you're referring to, and yet I replied with my opinion in the other thread. All I want to know is, are you blowing smoke up our/my skirts, or are you seriously interested in the responses to your question? If you're interested, why disregard them in the other thread?

fit finish and circuit board layout and the use of surface mount devices gets my vote to zap-arc....ooops i mean ARC

as far as design goes i love the use of surface mount devices. These have massive benefits in tolerance, track length and noise and any engineer willing to incorperate these should get big thimbs up....however fixing SMD is a pain in the ass, and its not very easy to read what the hell the device/value...so with this setup you need the repair manual and tools for SMD removal and fitment so fixing such an amp is actually more expensive, in theory...unless sent back to factory or new boards airfreight out to repairer.

also i have to say that the SE power supply filtering and design is a work of art. Defintely the best filtering setup i have seen. How well it is implimented is another issue but robert zeff is one of the gods of car audio amp design.

the SE's just look amazing.....

can not comment on sound since i have not owned them

would definitely love to try genesis amps and ARC SE amps.....and have never had the desire to try tru or audison they just dont get me excited like genesis or ARC SE.

IMHO, you have an amp that most ppl would give their left nut for.

Rather spend time tweaking your install, and making sure you have not only put the speakers in to do them and the am justice, but also tuned them accordingly.

wonderful match! but give me some money!
the Iridiums sound quite awesome now and the audison has phenomenal clarity! alot cleaner than my Helix A4 and A2 but i think the SE's are special amps, so special!

Are the audison VRx or LRx amps noticebly "warm" or "coloured" when it comes to powering subwoofers? Or is this only noticeable with mids/tweets?

Yeah... I reckon they are.... Thats why I bought three.... Best amp available without going completely stupid and mortgaging my house....

Wood

have you tried the audisons?

Several years ago I experimented with Audison. Didnt rate it highly in any way. I know they're still a good quality amp but IMO nothing I'd spend money on. Seriously, how could you compare anything to Arc Audio SE's????

Wood

what audison was that! are the SE's really that good?!!

Yes... the SE's are really that good....

You can see my install on the arc audio website. Go to the international cars in the gallery and mine is the only australian car...

I played with several different models. LRX and VRX from memory... although to be fair it was about 5-6 years ago....

Wood

wow ... ! i should sell my audisons and go the SE's!:-)

cos you have identified an 'issue' (ie: sound is too warm for your liking), then i think it's definitely fair enough to change amplifiers.

though whether you'll get better value from changing something else instead, i'm unsure. like adding a digital EQ or better HU, or different speakers (not necessarily the whole set, but an individual driver), or changing to an 'active' setup if it's currently passive, etc.

but i still rate audison VRx very highly, and will continue to use them. mind you, i am doing a bit of a change too, as an experiment, and will be using the F#1 alpine MRV-F900 to run the front stage in my car. just need more time to finish connecting everything up!

Farshad, if I can ask a few questions. Not sure if you have said this somewhere, just no time or inclnation to read thru the 2 posts.

How do you have your current speakers mounted? Have you got sound deadner in the doors (if the are mounted there). Have you blocked off all service holes, and such?

The only reason I am asking is perhaps your equipment is fine, but the install could be tweaked?

is it a good idea to go focal and see if can i get the sound i want? i love the vocals of the focals but i should tame the brightness of the tweeters ...
I love the sexy look of my VRx's!

i've used dynaudio and morel to my great liking (and SQ judges!) for years. i wouldn't describe the sound as 'forward', but they seem a great combo. i haven't tried dls, so no idea how mine would compare. dyn/morel could still be too warm for you.

again, what is the rest of your setup? good EQ?

my setup:
front: DLS Iridium 6.2i passive
front amp: Audison VRx 4.300 bridged
sub: JBL W15gti
sub amp: Audison VRx 1.500
HU: Nak CD400, and have a P80rs II(not installed)

the system really sounds awesome(but too warm), don't know what's the problem? the Hu or amp? should i change the amp or install the p80?

I'd change the speakers first, that will be the biggest and most notable way to change the sound you hear. I'd go audition a few sets.
Rainbow Profi/Vanadium series
Sinfoni (only one series)
Focal (not sure which series it is now, K2p or the new ones)
DYNaudio
Morel
Hertz
HAT
Maybe even some cheaper ScanSpeak, Peerless or Vifa drivers

Go listen to a whole lot of speakers and see which ones sing for you.

Ant

look for an amp with BJT outputs aka no FETS in the output/current gain stage.

one amp i can defintely recommend is the ppi art 1200.2 its not warm but very clinical sounding this might be what you are looking for. Maybe try the Phoenix Gold ZX600ti, they are just awesome.

i know what amps you shouldnt get, xtant, RF, jlaudio, brax.

btw just found this on the ARC SE amps:

[url="http://www.caraudiomag.com/testreports/061...fier/index.html"]http://www.caraudiomag.com/testreports/061...fier/index.html[/url]

"It's a typical Class A/B amp, using a triple Darlington arrangement with high-speed (20MHz) bi-polar transistors for the output section"

this arrangement is the same current output stage design as the PG ZX/ti series that i do love so much.

also this amp has output up to 100khz @ around -3db...which is something in your situation might be a very good choice...however if you own focal tweeters then stay well clear of this amp.

thanks for the inputs, but i had the Helix A4 on my system the sound was very clinical with nice top ends but the audison has much more control and clarity!! the Helix and VRx's aren't in the same league in my eyes. I think Brax would be a good idea but they aren't in my price range for now...
How about DLS Ultimate Series and Hertz HP Series? the dealer also carry both of these brands. I read somewhere the Hertz amps have great resolution ...

The DLS Ultimate amps are very good, nice clean power and not as warm as Audison, so you may notice a difference there.

I haven't really been in a car that's running Hertz amps so I can't really comment on them.

Another amp well worth looking at would be Tru Technology Billet amps. These things sound fantastic from all reports. FHRX have a sale on them at the moment too.

Hello,
i listened to my friend's k2p again, the mids really sound amazing! but the tweeters tooo bright really!! it seems i should keep my VRx's and go the focals but there will be a hard fight between me and the TN52's! i want excellent top ends and the Iridiums don't do that for me! :-(

maybe then try morel supremo speakers....more dynamic than your standard soft dome but less harsh the focal, you dont want to go the focal route seriously you want to enjoy the music. Or maybe try some seas soft dome, i have yet to hear them but ive heard their big brother home tweeters (seas cresendo).

Morel are an inherently warm sounding speaker though. I'd look at something like a Hertz Mille, Polk SR or Seas Lotus Reference for a more refined tweeter which will sing.

i like your attitude,why not try a swap out of gear to see if things change when a part is swaped.I mean you can swap out stuff to lesser gear to atleast hear a change and then u can know that your overwarmness was decreased or added to.That would be a cost effective way if you can borrow some gear.It would also allow you to more understand your setup and why the sound is not of your liking

but aren't the polks and mille's smooth speakers at the top end?

Smooth yes, detailed yes, but without the harshness that affects Focals (beneath the Utopia series). The Polks and Hertz aren't as laid back as Dynaudio to put it that way.

ive yet to hear the supremo tweeter sound "warm" id call them more dynamic than the regular soft domes that i am use to. THe way that this tweeter seems to present itself i would place it inbetween a soft and hard dome. If we are talking about midrange units (which doesnt apply) then i would say that they could be described as warm since they use paper cones.

thank you jas, so you say that the FOCAL's wil sound better off the Audison's compared to the ARC's?

Hello again! finally sold my VRx's and am looking for another amps...
so between the Tru's and ARC's which is the better choice for my DLS speakers? are the Tru's more detailed and clinical compared to the ARC's?

forget the Tru's, way overpriced

go some zed's awesome amps, and good price (google them)

*sigh*

After ~5-10 mins tuning, I can make both of them sound identical to the point where you couldnt tell them apart.

The Tru is lighter on the wallet, and you can buy the Billets in custom configurations and colours. The closest I could get to that with my SE's was a classy hand-signature from Rob Zeff.

*sighs also*

im guessing you wasted your money Matt on expensive amps, not some audiolines?

hangon, i wanna know how you tune the amp?

set the xovers the same, and the gains the same?

what about when they have no internal xovers? your just setting up gains?

why overpriced? have you had any experience?

i was one of the first in aust to use a Hammer. (used it in an SPL comp many many years ago)

i just think there are better value products out there.

Matt, I finally got my speakers in, come tune it for me, I'm lazy.

In Aus there aren't many people who have Tru amps, or have even used or heard Tru amps and then the people who have heard Tru amps in a decent install... well..

There is a famous article on a Tru amp by Robert Zeff, it is not a very good review of the product which shows the amp to be very over priced vs performance - I would suggest this is where some form the opinion Tru amps are over priced - and by all means this point is valid for the info at hand. (Not saying you haven't heard a Tru amp Fudd, I wouldn't know if you had )

But the fact is Tru amps are good performers. That article was written on a first revision of a product which was being fixed whilst the article was written. Some of the Tru amplifiers that we know today including the second revision C-7 are up there with the best of a very few select amps.

The article in question - old and dated - http://www.caraudiomag.com/testreports/031...fier/index.html

Edit: So you have fudd, one of the first to have a hammer - nice.

I want a very detailed , very transparent and not rolled off at the top ends, so which one?
Fudd, how will the ZED amps sound?

dude, I think you are looking for a holy grail.

I doubt there is an amp out there that can give you exactly what you want. Your speakers, install, tuning, placement, and so much more will give you the overall result you are looking for.

Good luck though, I hope a replacement amp can give you the shortcut you are looking for.

I'm not looking for a holy grail, I always loved how people talk about the Tru's and ARC's on the Dyn's and natural speakers and if I could buy them in my area wouldn't buy the audison's! don't get me wrong, the audison's are great amps but my preference goes to TRU and ARC.

Have you considered a Focal Dual Monitor? Very clean power and the amp itself offers some of the best tuning features available.

thank you dude, but I have tried the FP4.75 on my Iridiums and oh they are very much like the audison amps! very warm(not bad) and excellent match for the Focal speaker but not on DLS!

i never have read that review, i just listen and make my own choice.
the Hammer i never owned, just used.

The Zeds i would say will be clean and transparent, they have nothing to prove, the man that builds them has years and years of amp building knowlage and has built some of the best out there.
do yourself a favour and read some of the tech articals on his site. he has nothing to hide with his amps, something other companys do...

So far through reading this entire thread twice today Im not convinced as to what you actually want to change.
I also read that thread on DIYMA and I still am confused.

At the moment it sounds like you'll buy what ever someone can convince you is best? Where are the jaycar guys in this thread - hear is your time to prove us all wrong.

Your saying you like the warmth of the DLS but dont like the coloration of the Audison - whats coloring the sound more??
What amps have you swapped so far to confirm that the amp is what you dont like?
Then half way through you start asking about speakers? you like the focals but dont like the tweeters - so swap the tweeters.

IMO it sounds like you dont actually know what you want and it sounds like your listening to your stereo and not your music.

Many guys on here (myself included) have heard some bloody awesome amps - but opinions sucks - everyones got a different opinion.
Fudd likes the Zeds but has never liked TruTech amps - yet alot of people have recommended them. So whos right?
I know Fudd personally very well - and whilst we have very similar tastes we have different opinions. Then again theres been times when we've had the same oppinion but different taste/preference.

I think and i have always thought and always will , BUy the best looking amp, atleast you install will look good even if it sounds like bum.

There you have it fashard ,put on the blindfold , it reduces brandname psychosis