Hey guys,

I'm thinking of buying a new (used) car in the next couple of months.
I've currently got a boring 2002 Holden Astra Equipe Sedan, it's got about 75,000kms on it - I bought the most boring car I could find at the time

I'm giving the S15 200SX a lot of thought, would like to get a GT model - although there aren't too many around so might slim down my choices.

My trip to work is about 25kms, (sydney - eastern subs to north ryde), the traffic
isn't too bad as i'm going against the brunt of traffic coming into the city. I can park my car in the garage at home - at work i've got reserved outdoor parking which isn't too much of a risk as i can see it from my office..

Just wondering if there are any other S15 owners out there, would like to find out what their thoughts are. I want it to last me about two years, and not cost me too much in servicing and repairs (well, I understand what jap turbo cars entail, but hoping it's not over the top in ongoing costs)

I'd be looking for a completely stock S15, and would be keeping it that way. Hopefully it'd be a good car to go for weekend cruises - I miss my old VL Turbo as going for a cruise was always an option when I was bored.. I can't really get psyched for a cruise in the Astra!


i'm blabbing on... enough...

Great cars IMO....but not that practical and always under threat from the police and fcukwits with no respect for other peoples property.

Check out the nissansilvia forums - members there are pretty cool and they'll be able to answer any questions you may have.

I guess you just need to ask yourself:

- Will i cope with a 2 door?
- Will i cope with a 2 seater? (because lets face it, the rear seat is tiny, even size 6 girls struggle LOL)
- Am i prepared to pay full comp insurance and invest in some good security systems (because these are popular cars amongst scum bags)


Hope that helps....?

Thanks Middle Man!

I was walking on Pitt St a few months ago, and saw some guy drop his pants and piss all over a S15 200SX .. I guess i'll have to think about whether I want a car that attracts attention - although i'll be leaving it stock so it won't be too flashy.

Although even my Astra has copped abuse from losers - got a big scratch on the driver's side door. Maybe I should get over having a nice car, and keep driving the Astra around and not worrying one bit where I park it.. uggghhh..

I would be more than happy with a 2 door.. It would be a bummer that the rear seat is so small - but hey, i don't have to sit in it!

Insurance is just over the $2k mark - which is not bad considering i'm 23 and pay about $1300 for the Astra at the moment anyway..

I'm not sure what the theft stats are for 200SX, but I reckon it's not as bad as it used to be - there are a lot quicker cars out there, and thieves still prefer WRXs -- I HOPE!

I DONT....i drive a wrx biatch!

LOL

Well I was actually thinking of a WRX too.. I guess it would be more practical and more comfortable for longer drives than a 200 (i think)..

I'm mainly trying to justify buying a different car.. My Astra is in pretty good condition, about 3.5 years old with 75,000km so it's still got a lot of life left.. Although i'm turning 24 soon, so thinking it's time to get a 'young' car to enjoy driving before I get old and boring.. Nothing says excitement like an Astra Sedan!

I had been thinking of getting a Honda S2000 originally.. got over that as it's just a lil too impractical.. Then I was thinking of a BMW 325Ci, but it's a bit too much of a $$$ commitment at the moment.. So I went back to my first love, the 200SX ..

My girlfriend asked me to think if I NEED a new car.. So that made me think maybe I should just stick with the Astra and stick with A -> B cars .. She's not anti the idea at all, just trying to calm me down as thats all I talk about lately - and it bewould another couple of months before I do make a purchase anyway - save up a bit more, and get past my 3 month probation period at the new job

I'm also trying to chase up safety ratings for the 200, as that's very important to me too..

What kind of fuel economy would I get if I drove with a fairly light foot? Fuels getting pretty expensive, but I guess it's still a lot cheaper here than some other countries.. B)

What would the space in the back seat be equal to? I remember squeezing into the back of my friends Series III RX-7 with a mate of mine.. was not a comfortable trip!!!

Actually, about a month ago I was one of four people that squeezed into the back of an S14 200SX .. (just a quick trip around the corner).. I guess the room would be pretty similar to an S14, so it's not that bad..

Here you go

http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/forums/in...t=0#entry545196

Looks wicked! I love whiney gearboxes too!! hehe .. No sale though!

What are you getting to replace it?

05 STi

And why no sale? Not good enough for you hey?

lol

Oooh nice..

I'm not in a position to buy anyway. another couple of months..

Just sitting here scratching my head thinking about a 200SX.. thats all i been doin lately, a bit of a worry considering i ain't buying for a while

I used to own a bone stock (save for an 8k stereo install) S15. With light driving and a mixture of traffic and highway, I'd get just under 500k per tank. From memory, the factory claimed fuel consumption was about 10l/100k.

Plant the foot though, and you can kiss that fuel economy goodbye.

The S15 is a great car - good acceleration, brakes, steering and handling (except in the wet, where it's sideways city).

The interior trim scratches easily and the rear seat is really only for dwarves or double leg amputees.

A WRX is more practical but is no where near as sexy as an S15. S15s also respond better to modifications in terms of dollar spent for power gained (S15s only run 7psi from the factory and some owners on stock turbos have pulled over 200kw at the wheels with mods).

Very biased opinion.......whatever does it for you

I disagree with the "better to modify" comment.

Dollar for dollar they are about the same - except one is RWD, the other AWD - see what im getting at? B)

aka "except one is fun, the other is safe"...

s15 over a wrx anyday. too many wrx on the road...

and those s15's look absolutely sweet in gunmetal grey. Sexiest headlight assembly on any car, imho.

AWD doesnt equal "safe".....have a look at all the idiot P plater accidents that have happened in WRX's, GSR's and GTiR's to name a few.

It doesnt make you invincible

p.s You can have fun with AWD, sure its a different kind of fun....but fun nonetheless B)

Pretty sure i've decided on the S15.. Will just wait till a good one comes up in the paper, no rush so will wait around for a black or gunmetal grey Spec-R GT.. Blue looks good too though..

I hear FHRX "might" be selling his......i love that car, driven it a few times

Bias? Tell me what kind of psi a 168kW WRX runs? Around 14psi if I'm not mistaken? An S15 makes 147kW at the fly with 7psi - what do you think it would make with 14psi? Some S15's with full exhausts have gained over 40rwkw, proven at the dyno (eg. with a CES exhaust system). What do rexies gain at the wheels with a full exhaust? About 15kW?

Go to mrtrally.com.au/forums (a Subaru/WRX website so you would think the bias would be against the S15) and check out the comments.

Let me assist you:

http://www.mrtrally.com.au/forums/topic.as...=s15,mods,power

"Given both cars in stock form and 3K, which car do you guys think would be esier to get more Kw's out of the engine? I think the S15 would be easier due to bigger turbo. So a full exhaust, a FMIC and a bleed valve would make the S15 a lot quicker than the Rex with the same mod."

"s15 no arguments"

"yeah def s15."

"I agree that the s15 motor responds better to mods.It has only 8 lbs boost stock and is very conservatively tuned."

"No ones going to argue that it's easy to get power out of the s15.Its basically a detuned jap version that makes 185 kw.147kw stock is not cutting edge stuff for a turbo motor.A stock WRX makes 168kw."

"However, if you are starting from scratch and want to take performance mods quite a long way I reckon you should go with the S15. (Go on... flame away... ) When you consider WRX drive train wear / breakages (esp. clutch & gearbox), you will have a lot more to spend on the S15 for performance upgrades."

http://www.mrtrally.com.au/forums/topic.as...=s15,mods,power

No need to go to MRT.....im a moderator there

If im not mistaken, an S15 cannot run 14psi without any supporting mods.

Put your 168kw atw (at all four) WRX up against a 168rwkw S15 and then come back and tell me which one will win.

A stock MY00 makes 90kw's atw....with a full exhaust i was making 125kw atw.

Pre 01 models had the so called "gearbox issues"......in saying that though, there are plenty of them with over 200kw atw with stock drivetrain.

Newer models are a different story all together - MUCH stronger box....STi 6 speed has been labelled "unbreakable" by many tuning houses around the world.

Whats your point again?


p.s My "biased" comment towards you was aimed at your "no where near as sexy as an S15" comment

This is my first post, and i would have to agree with middle man. I just sold my MY98 WRX, and on the market looking for a new car. I've test driven lots of S15, stock and these car stock with .5 bar boost is shocking, jump into a wrx its a different story. Test drove a modded one with Intercooler, Boost the usual mods, and what i got what heaps of wheel spin.

But the WRX straight line fun...wins hands down in my opinion, but cornering sliding and surprise factor the s15 wins...hahah

but the WRX is the most funnest cars i've ever driven, pity there are too many of them =(

sorry to but into this convo..couldnt help..my heart still races when i hear that rumble....

The original issue was whether it was easier to get power out of an S15 as opposed to a WRX, not how that power is put to the ground.

Given that you are a moderator at that forum, then you would also know that if all things are equal, of course a rex should take an S15 to the 100 and down the quarter given the rex's 4wd launch. However, you would also know that a great number of rex owners would not consistently dial up 6,000 revs and dump the clutch. In other words, in real driving conditions (when you drive your own car as though it weren't stolen), the S15 gives up nothing to the rex in terms of acceleration and when we talk about in gear and overtaking acceleration, will leave the rex behind (just do the basic maths of power vs weight).

A stock S15 makes 105-110 at the wheels. S15 owners with a full exhaust have dyno proven power of 150+ at the wheels.

Your 168kw at the wheels analogy is fallacious. I would have expected that you would know that the rex's 4 wheel drivetrain is more inefficent and loses more power through drive train losses than an S15. In other words, if we go back to the original topic, how much $$$ would it take to make 168kW at the treads on a rex and how much $ would it take to make 168kW at the treads on an S15? Nuff sed.

Standard rex's don't come with Sti gearboxes ...

Hmmm, so you think a rex is sexier than an S15? One is a pure, purposely designed sports coupe and the other is based on a 20k, 4 door buzzbox except it has bigger rims, a bonnet scoop and body add ons. In fact, quite a few motoring writers have described the rex as nothing short of fugly (particularly in respect of the bug eyed model). Have never heard or read an S15 being described in the same manner - time to book in an appointment with the optometrist

Typical Nissan owner reply

Will respond in 12hrs when back at work.


edit - scrap that, there's no point - ive had these "discussions" far too many times and really cant be fcuked having another one.....so i'll just quit now......since it is an audio related forum.

Candiman you're such an idiot....

Middleman owns a WRX and Fhrx drives a 200SX and both of them have been nicely modified.

And you'd be surprised how close they are And who wins

You can have a bazillion killerwatts at the wheels but if you can't put the power down then you're wasting your time.

And they don't have to dump it at 6000 rpm to show you how much an AWD can pull...


Stop hating WRX's Maybe once you've been around them both you can see how one isn't just "better" than the other.... different purposes and different results, and two utterly fantastic cars

couldnt have said it better stazed.

Stazed, you're a knob and a half and you would be wise to think twice before insulting someone that you don't know.

If you go back on topic, you will notice that the original issue was how easy it is to get power out of the cars, not which car is faster - read first, engage the brain and then open your mouth, otherwise, your foot tends to have a magnetic attraction to your mouth and lead brain.

Once I have been around both? I used to own a 200x, and have been a passenger in and have driven several stock and modded 200sx's, WRX's and Sti's both on the street and at Wakefield (not to mention Supras, skylines etc). How many have you driven?

I've not claimed that "a 200sx is a better car than a WRX" (did you even read the posts?) and in fact, specifically said that a rex is a more practical car. My original point stands that S15's are on the whole, a better looking car than a rex and the S15 engine responds better to modifications. Stick on topic before you reply

Both cars are great cars to have great fun in. From factory the WRX has more power than the 200SX, mentioned earlier that the 200SX is a detuned version of the jap model, hello so is the WRX 179kw out of Japan, we get wroughted here in Australia, all so Holden & Ford can look better. AWD is not safer (my wife proved that at a roundabout spinning the WRX 180 degrees), a WRX also has a lot of understeer problems heading into corners. A WRX is a more comfortable car but I felt like I had broken my back when I took my MY99 for a drive to Dubbo, definately not a travelling car. Also everyone starts spurting out kw this, kw that when trying to define their case, in my opinion kw's means crap, the higher the kw's the bigger the top end and more likely to have very little bottom end or mid range and mid range is where the fun comes in. In my opinion both are great cars on their merits, both cars will leave a huge dent in your pocket once the insurance companies have their say. But regardless of which one you drive you will be left with a smile from ear to ear.

Finally, someone who actually reads the posts and sticks to facts

I noticed the same understeering in the rex at Wakefield, both with the regular rex and the pre-DCCD Sti. I also agree with your comment on top end power - the Sti is a slug under 4,000rpm and a bastard in peak hour traffic.

Rex is definitely the more stable car in the wet when compared to the S15. As I previously mentioned, it's sideways city in an S15 when the heavens open up. When driving through the old pac in slippery conditions, friends in their rex's leave me for dead - you just don't want to plant it in the wet in a 200sx.

The Rex is more practical with 4 doors and a proper size boot. I've already alluded to the the limitations of the rear seat in a 200sx. Rex's have nothing on S15's for sleek, sexy looks though

S15 is like a 5'10" size 8 brunette in a short black dress
WRX is like a 15yr old boy with a baseball cap and a marshmellow jacket and jeans around his ankles.

Driven both - blown up so many subarus its not funny (mates dad owns an import business and ive blown quiet a few of his cars up before i lost my licence he used to get me to "test" the hi-po's) the nissans are nice but seem cramped every where - engine bay to interior.

I love both.

AWD is no way near as safe as RWD. Sure AWD takes longer to loose but once its lost youve got 4 wheels spinning - no traction. RWD whip out the bum youve still got brakes. Personally I dont like the noise of the H motor. and i feel that the inline motor of the nissan can be setup as more of a sleeper than the rexy.

On the street - S15
On the bitumen track traditional style - WRX
Track drift - lets think
off the track - WRX (not scared to total a WRX where as an S15 kinda scares me)

Lol! That's a good analogy and spot on with my comments about the looks of both cars.

Now when it comes to looks, I know I'd rather be going out with a 5'10", size 8 brunette in a short black number, than a 15 year old baseball cap wearing homey

Each to his own.

Thats fair enough, but i personally disagree - i do just over 25,000km's per year as its my daily driver....i think its very comfortable.

Many of my mates say the same thing.....even on very long drives. One thing though, bucket seats suck if you want to sleep in your car



Thats true, but nothing a sway bar doesnt fix



Depends on the tune

My turbo has the reputation of being very laggy - my tuner was about to bring on boost 700rpms earlier than the manufacturers of the turbo state, and its strong all the way to redline. B)



Haha thats so true! I pay $3k a year



So very true.........i just dont like biased opinions



And that means Subaru engines are a POS?



So their power lies from 4000-8000rpms only? It's no Vtec

You seriously have NO clue....do you?

A standard TD04 turbo on a wrx is nothing special after 5k....but that comment of yours is just bullcrap.



Thats funny, because you also said "each to their own".

I don't know what (or how many) Sti's you have been driving but it must be very different to the one's I've been in and the ones that most reviewers have been testing:

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1463/article.html

"It's pretty sad that the STi gets gobbled up by ninety percent of traffic in normal day-to-day driving. No joke - caught out at anything less the mid-range rpm, the Super Rex is an absolute s-l-u-g.

This boost graph tells the story of the STi's on-road performance - bugger-all up to about 4000 rpm, a giant rush from 4000 to near 5500 rpm, followed by a steady drop-off towards the 7500 redline.

It's the most non-linear power delivery you could possibly imagine.

Somehow, despite weighing 1470 kilograms (a considerable 200 kay-gees more than the previous STi sedan) Subaru Australia say their new hero can manage 0 - 100 km/h in 5.45 seconds; we can't help wonder where the 50-horse nitrous shot was hidden! Independent testing reveals more realistic low 6-second 0 - 100s. But critically, without a huge clutch-dumping launch, you're well up into the 7s.

Torque spread is appalling - nothing 'til 4000 rpm and it tapers off toward redline "

http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=7978&vf=1:

"Disappointingly slow at low revs.

The fact is more time is spent tooling around the suburbs and here the STi is less happy. While there's plenty of engine power high in the rev range, anywhere below about 4000rpm there's not much urge at all.

The turbo takes a while to produce boost and it is frustrating to have that sort of lag in situations as common as a second-gear left turn in traffic. It's a similar situation on the open road, where a degree of planning -- either getting on the throttle early or shifting back a gear or two -- is needed for overtaking.

And lo and behold, even on your beloved MRT forums:

"If you can afford it then go the STI, price difference is well worth it for the extra goodies. A few thousand dollars spent on a good Exhaust, Intake and ECU mods will fix any lag issues."

"The problem with the STi engine is its gutless below 4000 rpm. I see this as a major problem for most owners 90% of the time they use the thing."

"the on-off turbo boost, which did its best to reinvent the phrase turbo-lag."

Also, don't know how many stock Sti's you've driven, but it aint a good idea to rev them out to 8,000rpm ... who knows, maybe you like driving Sti's in traffic by keeping the revs above 4,000rpm all the time - I only like doing that at Wakefield, and not in the CBD

Actually, I could be wrong and most reviewers who have driven the Sti could be wrong too - maybe we're just all biased, unlike you, Mr Moderator of a Subaru forum

Anyone can say "you have no idea" but it really isn't worth much if you cannot point to anything else to substantiate your claim aside from your own opinion ... hmmm, some might even say "that comment of yours is just bullcrap."

Hrmmm a twist of words. My mentioning that I have blown up a few Scoobi motors was more to the fact that they dont suit my driving style obviously. and that I dont get a connection to them. but thats probably because im used to driving big 6's and V8s I also strugle with the smaller 6 and 4cylinder BMW motors. I dont think too many people are going to say that BMW make crap motors. they just dont suit me and my driving type.

LOL

Ok mate, whatever you say and read

Hrmmm I should have guessed when i decided to put my view forward that I like BOTH of them and wouldn't knock back NEITHER of them I'd somehow get someone somehow way of track. But Middle Man and Candiman I'll leave you two to it. BTW Candiman - your a bit of a Nazi against the Rexies - you been beaten off the line by a few too many of them in your time ?

Play nice children. My 626 will kick both your arses

Lol! I think the Rexies are a good, practical performance car with great bang for your bucks. I also think that their average looks leave something to be desired

They're great off the line if you don't give two hoots about your clutch and drivetrain but I've seen and heard of too many of them going bang big time when they're driven like they are involved in a ramraid.

Most mates of mine who own rexies hardly ever launch the way journo's and ramraiders launch rexies. Instead, they dial up about 4 grand and slip the clutch and then it gets very interesting lining up against them. Rolling start though, and it's bye bye rex (as my mate's stock rex repeatedly found out to his disappointment when he did a few runs against my then stock S15).

I don't have the S15 anymore and instead, am looking at the Evo IX ... yum!

S15 any day over any, and i mean ANY model rexy