hey there all

i will be picking up a VR commodore in the next day or 2 and am looking at getting it lowered by 50mm, i have been quoted $450 or so for this.... this just includes being lowered with new springs but not new shocks... is this a decent price or should i be looking else where

i always though lowering a car would be a sh$t load more but seems pretty reasonable to me


whats your opinions ol wise ones??

Springs cost about $100 RRP a pair... So that is $200+ labour, it is a pretty standard price around $400, but I think the fronts on the VR a little harder than most cars.

For 50mm lowering, i'd personally do the shocks aswell, but most people don't.

yeah i would like to get the shocks done aswell but its just not going to be affordable along with the nessecities of a new car.... loan money is being chewed up real quick!

was hoping to get the exhaust done to, now i know that the exhaust is already a 2.5" exhaust so what is the rough price i would be paying for a sports muffler just to make it sound a little beefier?? im thinking around $200 supplied and fitted should be more than enough... any thoughts peoples?

What kind of springs retail for $100 a pair?

Whitelines "cost" price is approx $260.....Kings are about the same (not a fan of the latter though).....retail is obviously more.

On an aged car like a VR i would definitely look at replacing the shocks if you're considering lowering it by 50mm - stock ones are probably on their way out if they havent already gone!

KONI shocks retail for about $250ish each.

Most places in Sydney will lower your car with King springs for about $380min, up to $450max.

here the things you really need, and i really urge, you to consider.

Lowering a car affects the entire suspension geometry. Lowering by that much can really work the suspension on odd angles it has not been designed for, and many companies (whiteline being the absolute standout australian company) develop parts that will take this into account and modify the geometry to compensate, while at the same time addressing other issues.

On my lancer, for instance, a single set of bushes will relieve a lot of strain incurred from lowering, and also give me added castor (faster turn in) and added anti-lift (reduces understeer on mid-corner acceleration).

Now, when lowering a car by changing the springs, your putting a much higher load on the standard shock absorbers. They are not designed for this, so keep in mind your standard shock absorbers will now be wearing out, at a much faster rate than normal.

This means your going to have to replace them sooner. MUCH sooner if your doing spirited driving. Also, every little TINY bump you hit at speed is going to be absolutely bone jarring. If you hit a bump mid corner, the shocks are not going to cope. You will have sweet FA traction once the tyre lifts off the road mid-corner, and your shocks just dont have the juice to push it back down quickly.

So in the long run, your looking at replacing the shocks anyway.
If you save and buy a matched set of shocks and springs, you can retain your original items, and thus may choose, at a future date, to put them back on the car if your new set is damaged in an accident, or you need to sell them.

Also, the brand of shocks and springs matter. I'd personally steer clear of the cheap brands such as pedders and KYB. You do get what you pay for, and the cheapest of the cheap have many KNOWN cases of things such as "spring sag", where over time the springs become less effective, and your car drops even lower.

KONI shocks, as suggested, are an excellent brand....

The number one best bang for buck suspension specialist in australia is, from my experience so far, whiteline. Not just because of their absolutely stunning technical support team, who answer all your questions even if your not a previous customer. Before starting the path to upgrades on my car, i spent a lot of time talking to various companies. Whiteline offer exceptional advice. Even dropping them a few emails was amazing, i simply suggested what i was looking for and they told me the suspension components that need to be changed. Only after my goals were established do they recommend what needs to be changed, and if they dont offer a part, they will recommend other companies who do.
They are used, and exported, all over the world. Look up reviews anywhere on the net.

That said, there ARE other brands out there. Koni, for instance...

The top level suspension manufacturers, i'm sure you've heard of. People like Bilstein, TEIN, etc etc...but these fall far out your budget. (4k for a full set of fully adjustable coilovers).

So, i'm asking you, what brand coils have you been recommended, do you know the spring rate, their travel, are they made specifically to suit your car, and your desired ride height? Can you please consider saving for shocks (costs you less in the long run, gives you more options, is safer).

If budget is your driving concern, no worries...but still, shop around.

Upgrading other components first (Such as swaybars (huge improvement on all commies) , castor bushes, etc etc) can sometimes offer a MUCH bigger bang-for-buck performance increase than a set of matched springs/shocks...although the matched set really is the pinnacle.

If your going for the look though, well go nuts.

If your wanting to increase performance, consider the various other parts. Camber, anti-lift, toe, swaybars, castor bushes, etc.

Theres a crapeload of technical guides and info on the whiteline site, thats not even whiteline biased. Its good reading, at the very least.
I'm trying to point you towards a very solid technical knowledge base that you should at LEAST take advantage of for future reading (if not considering retail purchases). Those guys really do know their stuff.

So, anyway, long post, but i've made some points. I didnt mean to talk about whiteline so much, this reply is more about potential problems and issues. Look around, a few companies offer MATCHED sets of shocks and springs like they do, so shop. Find a good deal. But yeah, save that little longer for matched shocks, and not only will your ride look pimp, it will be 10x more comfortable, probably quieter, less damaging to your chassis/suspension components and handle better. edit : AND SAFER.

The best part is, all this work is kind of moot without good rubber. which is about $150+ per tyre. Yes, i can see you cringing

Awesome post......top stuff dude B)


Oh, and i wish my rubber was $150 each

Maybe not RRP then. I got my Kings from a retailer for $110 a pair.

IMO, Pedders is an excellent budget option. The sports ryder is a very decent shock and spring package and can be had for about $1000 supplied and fitted. Remeber you'll also need an adjustable pan-hard rod to centre your diff after its been lowered.

$2 worth of grinding discs and half an hour of your time

Word to 'Ryobi Tuned suspension'!

King springs are $140 a pair. Cost price of king springs is $80 a pair

Kings has a much larger variety of springs compared to whiteline, so i'd definitely go with kings over any other manufacturer.

Pedders for instance uses "low" springs from a VS commodore in VT station wagons to get "ultralow" ride height, same part number i checked, and the end result is the wagons bottom out everywhere because they are half the stiffness they should be.

Kings are not $80 cost a pair

....and they are nothing compared to eibach or H&R.

They are a very stiff ride.

How much are they cost then? They must be under $110 as that's what I got them for from a store. No mates rates or anything, that was just the price without any bargaining.

I got mine for $110 a pair also. Thats walking into a store I've never been in, talking to a guy I've never met before.
My mate can sell me a pair for $80 to suit VS commo's. So yes, they are $80 cost price.

As for a very stiff ride. Thats a load of bullcrap. Not all of their springs are of the same stiffness. I know mine is about the same(maybe a touch stiffer) as it was before lowering. And thats with approx 70mm drop in the rear.
I did 2 Geelong-Sydney trips in it in 1 week and it was absolutely beautiful to drive. Extremely comfortable ride.

Yeah ok, im bullcrapting

Ive driven 6 cars with Kings springs with both stock and aftermarket shocks....and all of them were too bumpy for my liking.

3 of those cars were changed to Whiteline & K-Mac....and there was a HUGE difference.

Perhaps $80 a pair for a commonwhore, but not for a Subaru, Nissan or Toyota - especially in Syd.

Well I drive one everyday and I can tell you its the same as it was from factory. Not all their springs are the same I guess so you can't say they're all too firm.

The ones in my telstar were firm, after being compressed and then cut twice lol

People, you do know that pedders is simply rebadged cheap stuff, while whiteline use their own sourced springs and Koni suspension parts for the struts, yeah? I believe pedders springs are KYB, from memory, but i can find the company for sure if you like.

Pedders WILL sag, especially when used roughly over a relatively short period of time.

simply do any google search for pedders and read peoples experieneces.

Like i have stated, on a budget they cant be beat, but in the long term, well...

Those costs sound ok. Agree with Quidy on both his posts. I've got 50mm lowered Lovells & KYB Front struts & rear shocks ( live axle rear end) Whiteline adjustable panhard & Strut brace.
Super Pro bushes to links & Trailing arms. all on a VR Wagon. Did the work myself and got WA suspensions to do alignments & make sure it was all ok. sometimes cheaper this way if you have the time, patience & tools

I'm doing all my own suspension stuff myself (except when i hit a majorly f***ed up bolt or somesuch)

Its fun, but i might leave the spring part to the experts. Its cheaper, and yeah, you get to play around with settings however you wish

yeah, $200 sounds reasonable.

A good exhaust shop will offer to fit, or at least DEMO a couple of options for you, without charging. When you pick your best they might charge you a set installation fee, or a timed one if you need custom work done.

Muffles dont take long to fit/swap out.

Cheers.

not wanting to get too picky here, but the other thing about eibach, TEIN, etc, is that the majority of their settings tend to be FAR too rough for the streets. This isnt from a personal viewpoint...

Roads are bumpy. Aussie roads are fairly crap as far as bumps/undulations go. A really stiff suspension setup isnt going to like these bumps. Your tyre might get briefly airborne over a little bump, whereas if the suspension was set softer, your tyre would keep contact with the ground, retaining traction

yeah, the beauty of these fully adjustable sets is that you can adjust them, from peoples experience, the softest settings are just barely suited to road driving, whereas the hard settings suit TRACK racing perfectly.

hence they are ideal for people that might take their car to the track, which is, i believe, their intended design purpose. (They didnt design these for bumpy streets).

but again, on the appropiate setting, yeah, those matched coilover sets are simply, the bomb.

hit the bump stops yet?

Liquidity im confused.....are you talking about springs or coilovers?

Big price difference between the two.....and a totally different argument all together.

Also, Eibach & TEIN are two very different brands. The latter have the rep of being very harsh on the street.....im yet to hear any bad things about the Eibach's though

coilovers. not many many talk about eibach, tein etc, without talking about the full kit. Guess i probably jumped the gun a bit but just wanted to put down some more useful info. Lol.

Well the car from factory sits about 15mm off the bump stops. They arn't regular bump stops but are quite sotf. They play an important key in the suspension.
It's hit the road once driving in melb. Mate was driving and didnt see a dip in the road in the city(worse roads ever) and the floor of the car ended up hitting the road twice. NEVER want to hear that noise again.

Well just to pass on my story. I have a VR Commo sedan as well and about 3 months ago i lowered it. I did it all my self and i lowered it 4 in the back and 2 in the front and the reason for this is now it sits level even with 5 people and 5 bags in the boot and this was on a road trip for this years state of origin from Rockhampton to Brisbane.

Anyway the total cost for me was about $350. This included the 2 sets of king springs, and the set of monroe struts for the front and monroe shocks for the back. Also all of these were at a trade discount from repco.

All i can say is it rides just like it use to but now it handles brilliantly and now i can get the ass-end to hang out now since i got the 235's put on.

I think you forgot to add a few numbers on that price... I looked at Repco trade prices and Autobarn could go cheaper or match on certain items.

Front Monroe GT struts - $104 each from Autobarn (cheaper than the trade price I got)
Rear Monroe GT shocks - $112 a pair from Autobarn (cheaper than the trade price I got)

Front King springs - $110 from Spring/Exhaust business. Repco was far more expensive.
Rear King springs - $100 brand new from a mate.

That's $530 plus alignments and camber kit... I didn't know how to fit a camber kit so paid Tyrepower to do it and all 4 wheel balance/alignment. Ended up being $790 doing it myself... Not cheap to do properly.

I think the moral of the story here is you get what you pay for

Camber kits are a pinch to fit, but your not going to be able to align them particularly well by yourself.

Hey that is what I paid to lower my car and that is the truth. I carn't remember the individual cost for each of my items but i can tell you that that is what I paid. The trade discount that my old man gets at repco is 35% so if you factor that in. The RRP would be $350 / 65% = $538.

You sort of get a 35% discount if your old man spends $200,000 a year with them.

(Old man is the service agent for Nissan, Subaru, Honda in Emerald mining town).

Oh ok... That is a pretty unrealistic price for most people. Did you do the alignments or pay someone?

You can't do a wheel alignment and that came for the guy when i got my 17' wheels with 235 tyres. The only adjustment that can be done is on the stearing arm but is not a real method of wheel alignment. The only other thing that can be done when lowering is a camber kit. But i havent worried about it because there is no uneven wear on the tyres.
Congo.

4" lowering in the back MAY have put your diff in a untasty position. Theres easy ways to resolve that..

When you say that, what do you mean? All i can say is that one of my mates has a VR calais with IRS, while mine is a solid diff and neither of us have had or found any problem so far.

I just want to know what these untasty positions are that might happen from lowering just in case but so far everything looks fine.

Congo.

Hmm.. i dont know about your particular model car then, but...


On a rear wheel drive car, when you lower a car substantially, it radically changes the suspension geometry. One effect of this is that your differential may be sitting in a different place than its supposed to be (too low/high) relative to other components.

I know it happens to many of the jap imports when you lower them, its why whiteline offer..."panhard" rods, i think it is, which reposition your diff to the proper position.

but again, i dont know your car specifically, so i dont know if its an issue.

The potential problems are just basically increased wear leading to premature failure, and/OR the diff bottoming out on the ground when it shouldnt be.

Yeah i can see what you mean but i dont think it is a major problem with VR's just because they sit high when there is no load in the back and do lower very easily under load.

This can be seen by just adding a tank load of fuel compaired to an empty tank i reckon there was like 1/2 to an inch just there. But i can see how there could be extra strain on like uni joints.
Congo

err...

IRS there isnt too bigger problem with lowering - only being camber and chewing out the insides of ya tyres (although i dont have any experience in doing them)

mainly on VT commo's


VR (live axel) and before all use a live axel set up, and the diff "moves" to one side as the car sits lower due to the way its set up - and thats why u get the adjustable pan hard rod - it pulls it back to the centre at the now lower ride height - lowering it will usually cause the tyres to scrape on the inside of the tyre wells or on the guards without the panard rod - which is why people roll them in the earlier models when they are real low with fatter tyres.

the diff still moves side to side to an extent with the panard rod just that it sits more centerally at the normal ride height.


to lower a vr (as ive done) - used kings superlows (50mm) all round, and changed the shocks to short travel shocks to prevent the springs from being able to fall out of the back ( they literally just sit in there, nothing holds them in other than the weight of the car).

paid
120 for each pair of kings
240 for front shocks
120 for the rear shocks
150 for the on car adjustable panard rod

- bout 750 all up (fitted myself)

then u would wanna get the wheel alignment done and get em to set up the panard rod as you go by eye



id strongly reccommend changing the shocks as well, as there most likely gone (they are at least 10 years old if they havnt been done before) - and the shear fact that the short travels hold the rear springs in by not letting the diff assembly drop to the point the springs can fall out - and not only that, give u a much better ride...

however... unless u plan on going airborne, cornering real hard to the point ur about to get 2 wheels off the ground and full shocky travel, then the issue of coils falling out is not that geat...

also known as makita springs.... only coz my 4" grinder is a makita... no idont have "chopped" springs i do have RTS tho... HZ on of the 1st 2 get it...

geez hasent this thread been posted in lots since i last posted.... i didnt end up getting the suspension done as i spoke to 6 different insurance company's (both main stream and non main stream) and all of them said they would not insure me even as a driver of the vehicle, let alone as the main driver

so the suspension didnt get done, but now im starting to think that alot of people out there have the car lowered and havent told there insurance company, and i could do the same

although then i run the risk that if i have an accident i will have to fork out the whole lot

they said that i cant have insurance until im 24 with the car lowered and im sure alot of other people out there are under 24 and have insurance on a lowered VR commodore.... they reckon they dont do it because its more susseptable to underbody damage

what are your opinions??

im 19 have a airbagged rodeo im insurred with shannons but they wont insure people under 25 but because im a minitrucker and the club im in os sponserd by shannons they let me do it for my truck it cost me 2200
full comp with my truck insured for 25000

yeah, a lot of insurance companies get more lenient once they know your part of a club they sponsor. Ask around, it happens.

Also, airbags are technically illegal, if your car doesnt come with them as an option

i can get kings for $75 a pair just ned to find an installer that will do it for a reasonable price...