so, what do you guys reckon is the better option
Decent rubber (about $200 a tyre)
OR
buying wider rims, but using cheaper rubber.
I know the best path is wider rims, THEN better rubber...but...
i have no idea when it comes to tyres.
Full Version: Tyre Question.
Personally i'd run a wider rim as that will give you greater surface area, even awesome tyres cant compete against say an extra 15% more surface area on the road (providing wired tyres have decent tread)
So your effectly saying that the difference between crap quality, $40-50 bucks a item rubber and quality $200 tyres, is less than 15%?
okay, cool. I know nothing about tyres, so thats good to keep in mind.
okay, cool. I know nothing about tyres, so thats good to keep in mind.
Better tyres, without a doubt.
Wider isn't always better. Aquaplane for one.
I always spend big on the fronts as they do the important things, ie stopping and steering..
Wider isn't always better. Aquaplane for one.
I always spend big on the fronts as they do the important things, ie stopping and steering..
Thumpen : yeah, untill you go hard through the hills and the back keeps wanting to slide out.
which, i found out after stiffening my rear swaybar a LOT too much, CAN be an AWFUL lot of fun
which, i found out after stiffening my rear swaybar a LOT too much, CAN be an AWFUL lot of fun
QUOTE (Liquidity @ Sep 6 2005, 01:41 AM)
So your effectly saying that the difference between crap quality, $40-50 bucks a item rubber and quality $200 tyres, is less than 15%?
Not so, cheap crapty retreads vs good tyres.. the decent rubber will always win.
BUT, having a larger contact patch and cheaper (mid range) rubber will be better than high spec rubber on a thin rim.
QUOTE (ReMiX @ Sep 6 2005, 03:07 AM)
Personally i'd run a wider rim as that will give you greater surface area, even awesome tyres cant compete against say an extra 15% more surface area on the road (providing wired tyres have decent tread)
Totally disagree......in every way.
Could you elaborate for my education please?
QUOTE (Liquidity @ Sep 6 2005, 02:02 AM)
so, what do you guys reckon is the better option
Decent rubber (about $200 a tyre)
OR
buying wider rims, but using cheaper rubber.
I know the best path is wider rims, THEN better rubber...but...
i have no idea when it comes to tyres.
Decent rubber (about $200 a tyre)
OR
buying wider rims, but using cheaper rubber.
I know the best path is wider rims, THEN better rubber...but...
i have no idea when it comes to tyres.
Well.....how wide and how big are your rims now....and what are you thinking of upgrading to?
Have you had much experience with different rubber types at all?
The wider surface allows the tire to cover a larger surface area on the road.....but what good is that if you're rolling on some crapty brand tyres???
Alot of things are needed to be taken into consideration when choosing tyres.....thats one of two things i NEVER skimp on (brakes being the other).
How they perform all round is what i look out for.....wet, dry, gravel etc...
Sidewall flex is another aspect....what good is it if they only keep traction on the straights? What about the twisties?
Off the Whiteline site....
I'd rather buy some expensive well reviewed rubber for my stock rims, than upgrading the width of them with crapty cheap tyres.
Been there done that, i now pay min $250 a tyre (and thats mates rates) - an expensive ordeal, but well worth it. B)
Alot of things are needed to be taken into consideration when choosing tyres.....thats one of two things i NEVER skimp on (brakes being the other).
How they perform all round is what i look out for.....wet, dry, gravel etc...
Sidewall flex is another aspect....what good is it if they only keep traction on the straights? What about the twisties?
Off the Whiteline site....
QUOTE
Tyre width, wider is better right?
Not always, it is a general misconception that wider is better. The object is to have as much tyre contact with the road as possible, but there is an optimum limit to this. On cars with anything other then a live axle suspension, such as McPherson at the front and multi-link at the rear on the S15, a wheel will have already have some negative static camber in it's standard form. This means that the weight of the vehicle is already not evenly spread over the width of the tyre, and is only further shifted towards one edge (usually inside) of the tyre as the suspension moves through its arc due to built-in camber curves. Wider tyre have other detrimental effects such as increased aquaplaning and friction (resistance) as well as increased steering feedback which may be good but up to a point.
It is also quite easy to "over tyre" a car depending on the wheels used. A tyres' width is designed by the manufacturer to work in with the wheel size, suspension geometry and vehicles weight. Increasing the width of the tyre will not necessarily increase the contact patch as the weight of the car is the same. The shape of the contact patch will however change under these circumstances, hopefully to the benefit of lateral (cornering) grip but only if they are fitted to the correct rim size.
This is particularly relevant to standard wheels where overly wide tyres will often handle worse than the original with the undersize wheel creating a balloon that easily walks and distorts though a spongy side wall. Properly matched wider and stickier tyres are a perfect match to a larger Whiteline Swaybars to maximise the extra load transferred to the drive wheels during roll.
Tyre width can also be a problem when the extra width grows out from the wheel hub face. This is one of the least understood but most common problems encountered when upgrading wheels and tyres with the most common symptom being the new tyres rubbing on the guards. Wheel offset is the real issue here but the wrong offset coupled with excessive width in the wrong direction becomes a nightmare on all fronts.
Again, fitting a larger Whiteline Swaybar can minimise body roll to provide a "band aid" solution for tyre rub problems.
Not always, it is a general misconception that wider is better. The object is to have as much tyre contact with the road as possible, but there is an optimum limit to this. On cars with anything other then a live axle suspension, such as McPherson at the front and multi-link at the rear on the S15, a wheel will have already have some negative static camber in it's standard form. This means that the weight of the vehicle is already not evenly spread over the width of the tyre, and is only further shifted towards one edge (usually inside) of the tyre as the suspension moves through its arc due to built-in camber curves. Wider tyre have other detrimental effects such as increased aquaplaning and friction (resistance) as well as increased steering feedback which may be good but up to a point.
It is also quite easy to "over tyre" a car depending on the wheels used. A tyres' width is designed by the manufacturer to work in with the wheel size, suspension geometry and vehicles weight. Increasing the width of the tyre will not necessarily increase the contact patch as the weight of the car is the same. The shape of the contact patch will however change under these circumstances, hopefully to the benefit of lateral (cornering) grip but only if they are fitted to the correct rim size.
This is particularly relevant to standard wheels where overly wide tyres will often handle worse than the original with the undersize wheel creating a balloon that easily walks and distorts though a spongy side wall. Properly matched wider and stickier tyres are a perfect match to a larger Whiteline Swaybars to maximise the extra load transferred to the drive wheels during roll.
Tyre width can also be a problem when the extra width grows out from the wheel hub face. This is one of the least understood but most common problems encountered when upgrading wheels and tyres with the most common symptom being the new tyres rubbing on the guards. Wheel offset is the real issue here but the wrong offset coupled with excessive width in the wrong direction becomes a nightmare on all fronts.
Again, fitting a larger Whiteline Swaybar can minimise body roll to provide a "band aid" solution for tyre rub problems.
I'd rather buy some expensive well reviewed rubber for my stock rims, than upgrading the width of them with crapty cheap tyres.
Been there done that, i now pay min $250 a tyre (and thats mates rates) - an expensive ordeal, but well worth it. B)
Cool, and thanks.
Yeah, i've read the whiteline articles in the past, but i was just wondering how much percentage difference in performance there was, roughly, between the different price brackets of tyres...
Cheers, i'll find out the width of my current tyres, but they are just the factory sports alloy's that came with lancer MR's (coupe fwd) of the CE2 model. Wider than the GLi / Glix/ VRX lancers, but still not massively impressive. Very light though.
Yeah, i've read the whiteline articles in the past, but i was just wondering how much percentage difference in performance there was, roughly, between the different price brackets of tyres...
Cheers, i'll find out the width of my current tyres, but they are just the factory sports alloy's that came with lancer MR's (coupe fwd) of the CE2 model. Wider than the GLi / Glix/ VRX lancers, but still not massively impressive. Very light though.
and no, sweet FA experience with different rubber types on this car so far.
from experience, wider tyres aquaplane more, u can get decent grip in the dry with most tyres its wet weather where the quality shows. but even so wider tyres arnt always better
my ute with a locked diff can happy spin cheapo 225's (allrounders etc) but decent 205's it wont spin with out really trying
even with the extra surface area, if the compound and patern arnt good, you wont nessisarily get extra traction.
my ute with a locked diff can happy spin cheapo 225's (allrounders etc) but decent 205's it wont spin with out really trying
even with the extra surface area, if the compound and patern arnt good, you wont nessisarily get extra traction.
QUOTE (Liquidity @ Sep 6 2005, 06:00 AM)
Thumpen : yeah, untill you go hard through the hills and the back keeps wanting to slide out.
which, i found out after stiffening my rear swaybar a LOT too much, CAN be an AWFUL lot of fun
which, i found out after stiffening my rear swaybar a LOT too much, CAN be an AWFUL lot of fun
Wider doesn't mean that it will stop the back kicking out. A harder cheaper tyre will still loose tracion where a thinner softer tyre will grip.
can get decent tyres for 7-8" wide rims for around 150 fitted these days.. (235x45's)
kuhmo ectsa's are ok for all rounders
nankangs - cant remember the name of the actual tyre...
wider rims with good tyres will always outdo thinner rims with the same quality tyre... unless u wanna go aquaplaning.. the wider the easier they aquaplane...
once u got wider rims, you can always put better quality rubber on next time... if uve got good rubber, u still have old rims...
kuhmo ectsa's are ok for all rounders
nankangs - cant remember the name of the actual tyre...
wider rims with good tyres will always outdo thinner rims with the same quality tyre... unless u wanna go aquaplaning.. the wider the easier they aquaplane...
once u got wider rims, you can always put better quality rubber on next time... if uve got good rubber, u still have old rims...
ring your local tyre dealer and find a price on dunlop FM901's they were $230 odd for 8" rims on a commy so they should be in your price rane.
I had a set on a pug 306 and they were awsome, the tring was like a go-kart on tarmac..... on dirt, not so good
I had a set on a pug 306 and they were awsome, the tring was like a go-kart on tarmac..... on dirt, not so good
up graded from crap 225's to sticky 265's. lovinit. drive slow in rain tho... tonner + fats + rain = aquaplane or fun depnding on which nyt it is...
QUOTE (east_bay_punk @ Sep 22 2005, 07:29 PM)
ring your local tyre dealer and find a price on dunlop FM901's they were $230 odd for 8" rims on a commy so they should be in your price rane.
I had a set on a pug 306 and they were awsome, the tring was like a go-kart on tarmac..... on dirt, not so good
I had a set on a pug 306 and they were awsome, the tring was like a go-kart on tarmac..... on dirt, not so good
8" rims ey
ive got 8's i want 10's or 12's tho... 335's anyone???
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