Great event. Thanks for organizing it Bruce and everyone.

I was very surprised at my result, considering that I wasn't going to enter but got talked into it by Splatman and a few others.

Bruce - let us know where we can get our scoresheets

Sounded like a GREAT event... congrats guys.

I look forward to the results

Er, I did not start this topic ... Did you lift my post from the other thread and put it here Marc?

Sure did

so???? results?

great event, the SQ result definitely very suprising, the overall winner of best SQ in the cabin WA 2005 didn't even make to the third place. so this is definitely a proof that the SQ in WA realy improve in the past few months. can't wait to compete in another event

Results are posted and leaderboard updated.

Woo equal 5th place. didn't even think it had a chance

just wondering why the score in the amateur show is really low.. it's not like the score from the other state..
any one know where can i get the detail of the score? please let me know..

I am trying to find out also. Will post once clarified.

I know of alot of reasons why the scores were not only low but erratic and contradictory in parts, but im not going to post anything publically until its discussed with Bruce directly

and it said the total competitor in amateur street is only 7, and amateur show only 5?!?!?!?!? yesterday, the lady in the alberts definitely said, amateur street got more than 12, and amateur show got around 8 competitors, how come the competitor number shrinking?

Based on the phone calls I have recieved today, I'm not entirely sure we'll continue with CAASQ in Western Australia. I'm sure this is a direct result of why SQ competition does not exist anymore there either.

Some people need to chill out, and take it a LOT less serious. Competition and ESPECIALLY CAASQ is meant to be FUN and give you some feedback on your system. But the way some people carry on you would think it were the olympic games.

Maybe CAASQ WA can be the "Paralypics" version



(public rating = public rating - 1);

eh? what happent yesterday? from what i saw everybody happy yesterday, everyone is relax and enjoy the event, u got the wrong information marc

Brucee, after talking to a few people I realize there are not very many happy campers out there.

Take my car for example. It is not finished and there are many flaws with the sound. I turned up not intending to compete, just to have a look and listen to some awesome SQ installs. I got talked into entering by a friend. As you know, I was placed third.

I was chatting to another friend today, and I said: "how the heck did I come in third? There are so many problems with the sound. Either all the other cars were really bad, or the judging was a bit off. I don't think the other cars were bad, but there were many cars I would rate better than mine"

Friend's response: "exactly, Keith".

Judging that puts an absolute novice (myself) ahead of well-established and mature systems is not good.

Now I do not want to turn this into a judge bashing thread. The judges had a lot of work to do. Kudos to them - I don't think I could listen to 20 different cars and still be sane. It's like going shopping with your girlfriend and she asks you for your opnion on 20 different perfumes

In all seriousness Marc, I think that keeping CAASQ alive in WA is very important for the competitors and probably even more important for the retailers/installers. I could put a business case forward that would show you all the benefits of keeping it running:

1. Store promotion. Alberts Myaree had its name plastered all over nearly EVERY car forum in WA. Nearly every car audio enthusiast knew there was a competition in Alberts Myaree.

2. Awareness. Run these events often enough and they will receive wider exposure. This would increase the size of the pie and draw more people into the hobby.

3. Upgrades. If competitors knew where their deficiencies were they could go to their installers/retailers and get these corrected. I know where my own deficiencies are (pointed out to me by other competitors and hopefully the scoresheet will agree) and I am forming an upgrade plan. Myself alone will spend a few thousand dollars at my chosen installer. Most of these were planned anyway, but the competition has given me added incentive to go ahead.

4. Promotes competition between stores. If the SQ competition is seen as definitive and prestigious, then stores would fight to win honours. This competition is good for customers as the increased transparency lets us know which stores are good for what, and which installers are just hacks. Stores would be judged by their results, and not by who can sell XXX head unit for less or do YYY install for cheap. This would in some way justify the premium charged by some installers for their skills.

I think it's a win-win situation for both competitors and shop owners. But to get CAASQ running, total transparency is needed. Shop owners and competitors need to have confidence that judging is scrupulous, fair, and honest.

Please don't take this as an attack Marc, it is not. There will be a lot of opinions on this, some of it would be justified, and some of it would just be sour grapes. Don't let the sour grapes put you off. The hobby needs to be grown, and running competitions is the best way to do it. KEEP IT UP BUDDY!!

Post removed Numb or Blaqjaq or whatever, and that is EXACTLY what causes unfounded rumours and trouble within SQ competition. Be very careful what you suggest (especially when you cannot back it up), or you could even find possible exclusion from future events.

Grrrrrrrrrrr this sh*ts me. I was hoping something like this comp would happen after I had my install running, not for the competition side of things, but for the constructive criticism that would help me improve my setup...

I have no idea what the exact problems were, but surely these "problems" could be ironed out, or at least discouraged from participating next time if they can't appreciate the comp? I would really appreciate another of these too occur.

At the end of the day if kiddies can't handle a competition, how about the same judging and scoring etc minus trophies or a leaderboard. That way the ones who want to compete can make their own deal of it while ppl like me can just rock up and enjoy it?

Noted Amf, and I am well aware of the importance to the industry of this competition (despite many in the industry not believing so).

What you all have to remember is WA and its judges have been completeley cutoff from CAASQ Australia wide, meaning the judges have no experience judging with US, who founded the format and have some what consistency.

This was a trial event, and the judging bias and other things being suggested around the traps will absolutely GUARANTEE no future CAASQ in WA (NUMB!), now due to the great turnout, the potential WA judges will be invited to attend national training in December. From there on the 2006 season will also include rounds at Audioart & Technologies as well as Alberts with trained judges for all events.

Patience guys, and as mentioned previously, those that want to bag out the judging on the weekend will serve nothing better than stamping out WA's CAASQ future, end of story.

And yes, a trophy and leaderboardless system for Western Australia is something I have considered if need be. People are just too quick to post on a public forum information of a questionable nature (read = MADE UP).

I'll assume you spoke to Bruce directly before posting that last thread of yours I deleted then hey? Yeah whatever.

What you are getting now is a lot of feedback, perhaps not expressed in a very mature or sophisticated way



I suspected as much and gave them the benefit of the doubt. I did a little bit of maths and figured that the event was probably running at a loss (or at best, parity) to Alberts Myaree and the judges were probably giving their time for free. It would help if there was an interstate observer here but then we would all have to pay more to fund the travel expenses. I know that events like this are difficult to organize and it's sometimes thankless but don't let em get you down Marc.

Amfibius:

Good comment, agree with amfibius, it's not fair to discontiniud CAASQ in WA, because of some minor critic, cos other than that the event was quite successful.

and for the judges well done, although some comment or criticism would be helpfull to improve our system, i can not help but notice that the judge in the show division always give long comment, but the judges in the street doesn't say much at all, but i understand, maybe if the judge in street division give comment to every car, we might as well as stay there untill night

I dont know what all the fuss is about really...

I wasnt there to compete I was just cheaufing another car there so I had no pressure.. I spoke to all the judges and all of them made comments that I saw if the owners did ask. and even when I spoke to them in general you could get some feedback...

and now all this crap that is apparently happening... just reminds me why I decided not to continue on with running shows... is a pitty that this seems to happem a lot more than what it should..

at the end of the day it was the same sets of ears that judged each class, but essentially every bodys perception of SQ is slightly different which is why they are judged in that manner.

I havent even looked at a CAASQ score sheet to be honest so have no idea on the judging criteria. the way I see it is that so long as on the day the same ears judged each class they have to be fair accross the board.

point scores being lower than other states could be judges being conservative maybe?, I mean you dont want every1 to come out of 1 comp with massive scores which could potentially change competition with the eastern states.. who knows...

I was there to drive a friends car so I'll finish it here by saying good on bruce for actually doing something for the industry.. and trying to keep it going, there is still a long way for the competition to go and it needs support from ppl like yourself to get there...

cheers

also agree with amfibius and brucee.. as this is the first time for CAASQ in WA it's not fair to discontinue it just because of some minor critics. apart from the score of the amateur show that is quite low compared to the other states, the event is quite successfull and lots of people competing in the event.

I thought the day was well run with some slight hiccups (but no more than can be expected from an inaugural event), so a big thanks to Bruce and all the other people at Alberts Myaree for putting on the comp. Hopefully we will see another comp run in near future.



I agree with this point made by Brucee. The judge from Show (sorry don't know his name, but he had a broken arm ) was talking quite a bit about how to improve things and such. For example, I learnt that the new VW Beetles have a massive dash and there are compartments there that can be easily accessed (or something to that effect) that would be great for speaker placement. Unfortunately, the judges for the Street division were keeping everything to themselves. Admittedly, they had a couple more cars to judge then the show section, though the show section in itself would take more time to judge.

Some simple feedback would have been appreciated. For example on my score sheet I have failed (assuming "F" is for failed and "P" is for pass) the wiring safety. I have my main power wire connected via a wire lug that has had heatshrink over it and the wire is fused about 10cm from the battery. My amp is mounted securely to the chassis of my car by some brackets and a piece of wood. If there is a safety issue with my setup, I would like to know so that I can correct it both for the competition and for my own safety. Also as is evident by my low score, 61, my system is not exactly audiophile quality, I would have liked any tips on how to improve it.

Also I think one possible reason for the low scores in the show class is that they may have not been adding the safety judging points onto the total score. I noticed on my score sheet that my SQ judging total was 61 and my total score was also 61. Though not sure if this is because I failed the wiring safety part.

Finally, Marc I am not grumbling or complaining, I appreciate all the effort the judges and the staff made. I am just providing what I hope to be some constructive criticism that will make the next competition better than the last. And I did have a fun time, meeting new people and getting to listen/see some great systems.

I thought it went really well, whatever happened to just enjoying the event for fun?
Personally I went to get some info/critism on my system, meet some new people and just have a good time enjoying what we enjoy most. I think the guys did an amazing job in organising everything and they put their time out to be there on a Sunday! I agree with everything findog has said.

</Begin Ramble>

Gee Whiz...All this over an SQ Comp... I agree with Bassula, When I read things like this I'm glad I am no longer involved in running these type of events (Although if you guys needed any help I would of course help out!) because the politics just become unbelievable...

I spent thousands upon thousands of dollars going back two/three years ago to build an SQ system, only to have every SQ comp in WA cancelled due to 'lack of interest'. Before I sold my car I only had one chance to enter a comp, I came second in my class and was pretty happy (Yes happy with second, I would have been happy with last place just for the opportunity to have my system judged!). The point is, we are now spoilt to have a format and national comp like CAASQ running and I believe everybody needs to take a hard look at what they are expecting from CAA with these events.

At the end of the day from what I can read in this thread and others, this was a trial event, with untrained judges, some of whom had previous negative involvement with some competitors (seems to be a lot of bad blood in this town at the moment). Even before the day completed I knew this was going to cause issues - SQ is a subjective and personal taste so there are always going to be people who say "I should have scored more in X" or "I shouldnt have lost marks for Y" - but like with any 'sport' we have to trust the officials to do their job in such a way that it upholds the reputation of the competition. I didnt enter the comp, and havent really looked at any scores, but I am sure that CAASQ and Alberts would have ensured that the judges gave an accurate and fair judgement of all systems. To not do so would only be shooting CAASQ in the foot...

I think the old saying goes " You cant argue with a Termlab - So dont argue with the SQ Judge"

Fingers crossed we will have more CAASQ events in WA in the future as there are certainly some great SQ cars in WA. Good job to Bruce and all the others who helped in putting this day together, seemed like a good event from what I saw!

</End Ramble>

Cheers
Beau

Good on you! Excellent approach to take.

For everyone judging about low scores compared to other states, this does not matter one bit. As points between states are not carried over to a national series it does not matter whether points in NSW are up on points in WA. eg if you get 100-105-95 in three events in WA thats excellent, but if you get 100 then 150 then 40 something is wrong. You will find that scores flucuate according to judging on the day (ie if all scores are up or all scores are down on the previous event across all competitors within an acceptible margin this is to be expected)

What is the key is the ranking or placing, not the actual final score figure.

As long as judging is consistant across all events in their respective states that is the most critical aspect. The top competitors in each state are invited to the National event, not the highest scoring competitors in Australia.

You are competing against your state not the rest of the nation- worry about that if you get invited to Nationals.

Couldn't have said it better myself Pete!

Agreeing again? I think this is a disturbing trend!

I think the best way to proceed is to run another comp asap. The turnout for the next comp will prove the SQ scene in Perth is not dead and is full of people who want to have fun.

99% of feedback i have had has been great. Some people are not happy, get over it !

I will say that the next comp will be the test. Please email me if you wish to enter the next comp.


Lets make a judgement then.

Regards


Bruce Johnson

can i suggest end of october? or early november? or any time during october, cos the only show in perth during october is only PAS so far i know.

WOW!!! Can't believe all the S*** on here!!

My car was built for two reasons...
1) My love of good music
2) To do very well in competitions

Now I don't know about other competitors, quiet sometime before the comp (probably month) I had my car at a workshop and asked my installer to make it FULLY comply with CAASQ standards so there is no reason for unnecessary points to be taken away which could cost me dearly. The sound was pretty good going into the shop, had some minor issues, however having a few professional people look over my car prior to me moving over to Sydney I decided to work on what they had suggested I should do to it to tidy it up plus whatever I & installer felt necessary and yeah as a result I think it reflected in the score.

I had a long conversation with Numb the night of / after the comp. What he said was probably what he had wrote up on here (which was later removed) and I understood where he came from. He & I are very competitive against each other, though I've backed away from spending any more stupid amount of money in search of audio perfection as its perfect for ME already. If people are thinking it was a biased event, then all Alberts competitors would have been a 1,2 & 3. This has probably been one of the most fairest and highly competitive SQ competitions to date in Perth.

Anyway, thats enough from me. I'm in Melbourne enjoying Michael Buble and hope to see more CAASQ in Perth. If you decided to start fresh next year, even better as hopefully I'll be back in town for good :-)

I had heard some news for PAS. in this year, PAS has been cancelled because of insurance issue, which mean there is no car audio competition will run in october. i think it would be great that we can have one more trial car audio competition. in this competition, we can still compete in CAASQ standard and we don't have to send our score sheet to CAASQ. would it be better? it would be a chance to show WA people passion on car audio. i think Bruce would be able to organise this trail competition again in a short period of time right? also, Marc can come over WA to see our car audio competition and give comments for organiser and judge to help them perfromas same as other state standard. Even Marc can become a judge as demo play. show WA judge what they need to improve. don't just heard something from other and make decision without your eyes. i am not offence anyone here. i just want to try my best to make WA car audio standard getting better.

Cheers
PHD

Thanks for your input PHD. Rest assured I am trying very hard to make another event happen in Western Australia in October (towards the end).

Unfortunately, for myself and CAASQ Head Judge (Bruce - Cyberpunky) to come over is proving quite expensive, so we are trying to find a way to make it happen.

No PAS this year? is this confirm?

as my personal points of view, it would be necessary that you guys come over to show us how to imporve in CAASQ as you guys not thinking WA is playing isolation. compare with the cost of travel in difference states between QLD, VIC and NSW. is that really give you problem? CAASQ has 3 sponsors as i know, why don't you try to ask them become this CAASQ WA event sponsor? in every months, there is a CAASQ competition run in eastern state. this is the first national car audio competition run in WA, i think you guys need to pay more time and attention to grow this baby. i don't think your sponsor scan't afford for this little money when they earn big money in WA. for sponosr point of view, they can know what market trend is and what product will suit WA and CAASQ can increase reputition in WA. i think a lot of WA cars has potential to compete with eastern state cars. in WA, a lot of expert hasn't shown up yet. come over and you will see the truth.

Cheers
PHD

it seem like confirmed. but i have to chat with that organiser again. 90% sure.

It's not as easy as that unfortunately, and yes I did already ask our major sponsor. We'll work it out without doubt.

PAS was heading over to AHG I heard. Reason why club I'm with pulled out...crap venue