Thanks in advance for any time and / or advice you can lend (I might be looking at you Shiny, what can I say :).

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After many moons, the gear is in and working. The install came out very well after getting referred to Erupt Concepts via GL Pro Sound (they were booked solid for a month or so and I was in a hurry). That said I'm going back to Erupt on saturday because each time my wipers go on the amp cuts out, there is noise being picked up through the electrical system, and the factory aerial they fitted sounds just s***. Good job aesthetically though, and I'm sure these are just minor teething problems :p

The front doors were sound deadened with dynamat, sub box was built (facing into the cabin) and the amp boot mounted. VSR in center console.

The goal of this system is SQ, I enjoy quality reproduction of everything from Ray Charles, Iron Maiden, Ben Harper, Aretha Franklin and System of a Down to drum n bass and hard techno.

Install pics will be online by Midday.

The equipment:

2002 Au3 falcon sedan.
Factory HU
Audison SRx3 with VSR
Total Recoil 6.5" 2 ways
Total Recoil CT-12 D (sealed, 1.5' cubic foot box)
Total Recoil 6x9 (rear)

4AWG Audison power and ground cabling
IXOS XHS706W speaker cable (home audio tri-braid, sourced through Encel stereo)

The amp is running speaker in from the HU as it has no RCA outs (I wanted to keep the stock look and the steering wheel controls).

The manual says the speaker in should detect signal and not need a remote wire. During installation Erupt advised this did not work when tested, and they had to create a 'remote' from the ACC on the car. This might be heavily related to the wiper cut out issues.

The 6x9's are running from the HU as rear fill, and have caps wired in to cut out the bass. These were given to me by Boyd when I was collecting the sub. Now installed they cut out *ALL* of the bass. The side of them read as:

22uF
100V

Q1: Anyone know what this translates to in a cut off respect?

I'm having a few issues with the sound. The TR's are a very bright speaker, they seem to simply be missing mid-bass. The system sounds great through vocals and high instruments, but that flicker on the guitar as a string plays down low just isnt there. In fact I think its fair to say their is no low bass at all.

Q2: Achieving mid-bass.

Would I be better of ditching the factory HU unit, putting in a 3 way system, buying an EQ, letting more into the 6x9's to fill the gap between front and sub... ??

I see a few ways forward -

1. New HU, see if the EQ on it can drive the 6.5"s harder down low.

2. Get lower caps and let the 6x9's fill in the mid bass gap (though it will be from the rear shelf, so effectively destroying the front stage).

2. Ditch the SRX3, get a VRx4 and 8" mid drivers from TR, and have these mounted up front for a 3 way setup.

Is my logic right here, would 2 channels run the 2 8's and 2 channels run the 2 6.5's + tweets?

Q3: The sub 'feel'.

The Comet CT-12D is a huge b**ch when it came out of the box, it looked the business, and that it could take some serious power. Now I had always been planning to run the srx3 in 4ohm x 2 and 1 x 2ohm setup, so the sub would get 340wrms. When picking up the sub, I asked Boyd if it could be run at 2 ohm and was told its a 4 ohm sub, I would need two in line to do that. When asked if the VC's could be changed or it could re-wired to take 2 ohm, I got a fairly 'you don't need that, dont be silly, its a 4 ohm sub, take it' kinda response.

The amp is rated as:

75wx2, 250w (4 ohm)
65wx2, 340w (4+2 ohm)
110wx2, 220w (2+4 ohm)
95wx2, 315w (2 ohm)

Currently the sub seems to shift from 'clean fill' to 'boom' really easily. A low rolling note tends to muddy more then crisply go through you. Whilst noise is apparent, the feel behind it just isnt there. Does a sub need to played at a higher volume to make you 'feel' it? Or will more power address this?

My idea of a good sub has always been one you simply feel, it doesnt play music, its there to create exactly what it says, sub bass. Being as the sub is only getting 250 wrms, would going to Jaycar and bridging a 2 channel response up for 500 wrms get this thing working like its supposed to? To feel and not hear it?

300 to 600 rms is painted on the box, and I know TR gear can handle it all day long, so is that really what I should be doing to get the best out of it?

And the direction of the speaker cone is irrelevant yes...?

Q4: A three way.

After just having the 6.5"s installed, I know it was a bit painful. Putting an 8" driver in there as well, I'm not sure how... but if it must be done it must done, I'll break it to Erupt on Saturday. Anyone aware of issues associated with this much gear in the doors, should the 6.5's go in the kick panels? Should the 8"s go in the kick panels... ?

Factory holes are 5x7 front and rear.

Q5: Which HU.

Noticed GL are having a 'super mad crazy sale' tomorrow, and I know if buying a HU it would be Alpine or Eclipse. Does anyone have specific recommendations here? Sub control, time alignment (with instant settings for 1, 2, 3 people in the car would be great), aux input, mp3 are the only features I can think of (though since having the gear installed, I can't listen to mp3s as they sound baaaaaad :p).

To retain my steering wheel controls, could I break open the HU remote and wire it into the existing factory controls? :)

Q6: Distribution blocks.

I put 4AWG into the car as I knew more was going to happen. A jaycar 4 AWG dist. block to 2 x 8 AWG cables meeting either the SRX3 and Response 2x150 or VRx4 + Response will meet requirements?

Can 8AWG take 500 WRMS safely and effectively?

Q7: Optima Yellow Top.

I wouldn't ever put a capacitor into the system, I don't see the need, but I'm assuming the Optima Yellows are almost standard fare when I'm talking about this level of equipment and power draw?

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The vast majority of my learning has been through CAA. This is a truly exceptional community and the level of excellent information, quality members, staff moderation and ease of site usage is a great thing, so cheers.

1. Using formula and windows calculator, i get 1800hz, which seems insanely high. If it was out by factor of 10, 180 hz would make more sense. Both would pretty much cut bass out of them.

2. Lower the 6x9 crossover, i'm using 6x9's instead of sub now, just to fill in midbass. I'd preferably have them amped as well.

3. Apart from EQ'ing or changing box, not sure.

4. If you go 3 way, you'll need a new crossover, or run active, or a mix of both, which leads into ...

5. If you are going to run active, there are headunits with this feature (higher end ones). Time alignment with a sub is good. No idea on reusing controls.

6. The length of the run of wire matters a lot. You use 4GA from battery/alternator in front to back of car, because its a long run. You can use 8ga from a distro block 30cm to an amp, because its very short. Any high power amp has 4ga inputs. If the amp has 8ga inputs, 8ga should be sufficient.

7. Haven't used higher end batteries, can't advise.

If the filter is only on the back speakers, then it should be cutting off at about 180-250Hz to keep the image more forward, so a 10uf might be the go here if you want the 6x9's to play lower, polyester type is good, otherwise any will work.

Check the high pass filter on the amp (if there is one) for the fronts and sub, and make sure the fronts are playing down below 100Hz, and the sub not too high (as per rear filter ideas).

as for 8"s in front, there's no reason why 6.5" shouldn't play well low enough for the front stage - my midbass, when in the doors play down to 50Hz no probs. - but check the amp's settings.
also, maybe the sub amp is set too loud, and that means you need the bass on the head unit turned down... perhaps turn down the sub amp gain, and increase the bass on the H/U.

head unit - the factory one should be adequate, if you need an external crossover, consider a "speaker line level converter" and a low-priced crossover unit.

I use 8ga to my 4x65W amp no worries, as for the length, I have about 2m from the distro block to the amp.

Yellow top is an excellent battery - mine's over 7 years old (bought in 1998) and still works like new.

A 22uF cap is far too small its high passing the 6x9's are 1800hz.

10uf suggested in the above post is even worse and gives a high pass at 4000hz. You'd want something around 150uF which gives a 260hz highpass, remember its a shallow slope so it will still play below to some degree.

Any reason you picked total recoil? They have no history in winning Sound Quality comps, doesn't mean they are bad as Sound Quality is in the tuning and installation, which you dont have as the stock headunit gives very little tuneability.

If you want more bass from the front splits. Then maybe turn the bass up on the stock headunit which will cause the front to play more bass and then turn the sub gain down so it doesn't over power. Thats the cheap dodgy why of getting more midbass. Most headunits bass control works around the 100hz range which is where most punchy bass is, so i'd do that first and see how it goes.

Also if your looking at upgrading headunits and removing the stock headunit. My dad would be interested in the Headunit for his AU falcon as he only has a tape deck.

Picked up the Eclipse CD8445 from GL on Friday night (now waiting on stock in the country

Maz: I went TR for a few reasons. Firstly they were running a $99 special on their 6x9's with trade in (a friend had an old 323 that had been sitting in the sun for 7 years on his lawn, we took the 6x9's from this and got new ones for $99 ). Dollar wise and sound wise, I think these are great.

At the same time, not sure on the reasoning, but got a hold of their 6.5" splits for $350 and left them in a box for 3 years. Heard the demo car and was very happy with sound from them. Seemed logical to follow through with a TR sub.

Also I'll hangon to the HU as when I pass the falcodore on I'll be taking the Eclipse Hu and need to put the stock back in. Thanks though.

From here:
HU install.
Remove caps from 6x9s (HU has variable cross over points for all channels).
Add Response 2x150 to power the amp.

With the tuning options of the Eclipse and 500 wrms over 250 to the sub this should let me know wether my 'ideal' system is any good or not.

Q1. In active vs passive setups, is it considered still passive if I run a 4 channel amp with 1 channel powering the woofer, and 1 channel powering the mid+tweeter?

I'm thinking purely from a 'purpose design' perspective, I'm not going to beat having a 3 way speaker setup, but then I don't want to have to put 6 amp channels in the car to achieve this. And ideally with all the 'whizz bang' the Eclipse has over the factory AU3 HU (its even funnier when I type it) I can have excellent sound without a dedicated woofer?

Q2. Jaycar Response amps - at $249, I'm not going to find 500wrms *anywhere* else for the price, yes? And for sub-powering, SQ from an $800 monoblock isn't going to be that noticeable is it (comparitively)?

Please note this is a daily driver not a competition system, though when this is all in I may as well enter something.

My aural reference for this is listening to a $10k pair of floor standing hi-fi speakers connected to $5k of NAD power rig in a home hi-fi shop... If I hadn't done this I would have been happier... but then ignorance isnt bliss, its just ignorance

Thanks for the responses.