Clarion has Burr Brown DA converters, what does Alpine have and which sound best for playing back CDs?

Thanks for your help and feedback..

im very very very surprised by this question


i would expect someone interested in SQ for incar should be worried about features like time alignment x-over points/slopes and eq capabilities. these will make a bigger difference than the choice of dac converter some brand uses over another. I have yet to use a hxd2 in my car but it does look very nice and its volume control feels sooo nice. A product i have used for a short time in my car is the alpine pxa/rus-h701. It is a very easy to use and provides 8 channels fully active and can do surround sound if needed.

other issues still come to play like ease of use, can you read the display in bright direct sunlight, detchable face, cost and the use of external processor vs a single headunit. THESE are huge factors in buying a headunit or headunit processor combo.

at the end of the day the most important part in car SQ is the speaker drivers and their position in the car. To help your sound is variable x-overs and slopes + eq'ing and time-alignment but at the end of the day good speaker position makes everything easier to produce a better SQ result.

To put things into more perspective the type and brand DAC isnt the be-all and end-all of the DAC chain. Power supply, analogue isolation, circuit design and setout, post filter setup design and components, and if you use multibit DACS then you also require a current to voltage converter chip. Its not just a simple thing of looking at the DAC chip used and saying well this must be the best.

The HXD2 is the best sounding CD player I've come across thus far, though I haven't had the pleasure of accessing an F#1 Status source from Alpine as yet (mental note to self, ask Alpine to lend me one... ) and on paper this unit has all the goods to sound equally as good.

Still, for $2,000 the HXD2 is the current benchmark, since the Alpine kit will set you back way more for similar performance.

For the record, the HXD2 also has 96Khz sampling and extremely good measurements for signal to noise and channel separation - which all assist in its sublime ability to create wonderful sound stage presence compared to regular CD tuners.

It also houses TA, crossovr, para EQ and whatnot into a 1DIN chassis, though there is the outboard DC-DC converter to install.

Unless you are willing to spend way more than $2000 (Pioneer's set up costs double this for the same stuff too) then the HXD2 is the obvious choice.

Yes, I have one...

It depends what qualities you like I guess.

I haven't heard the F1 myself, at least properly in a car that was set up with a clue and I have yet to install my own HX-D2 as well but I'm with Damon on this one...if it's as many others have said and for the money saved in getting the Clarion, I'm betting I'll be a very happy man when it all goes in.

A Google search should reveal that quite a few people have prefered the Clarion. It's quite a common question at the moment on overseas forums. (It's known overseas as the DRX-9255)

When I was a retailer last year I had the chance to compare the slightly less expensive Clarions to the Alpines up to the 7998 model.
What I experienced with the top two Clarions under the HX-D2 (the cheaper models imo are quite average performance wise) was a more musical, inviting sound compared to the Alpine 7998 which whilst it was good, had a slightly more "artificial" sound when compared to the Clarions. The feeling and mood of the music seemed to be portrayed by the Clarion whereas the Alpine was the more analitical and mechanical of the two. I chose the Clarion as I prefer to listen to the music as for me at least, I found that with the Alpine, I ended up listening to it more than what it was playing.
(Having said all that, I'm currently eyeing aa Alpine 9853 to replace my ageing Clarion DRX-9675z in my family car as I did love selling Alpine and I do believe in the product alot)

I've heard both the HXD2 and the P90RS from Pioneer, and they are both very, very nice. I've yet to have the F#1 thrown into the mix.

Between the Clarion and the Pioneer, both are extremely beautiful pieces of equipment. Just on the playback (which is all you are concerned with as per your thread) I wasn't able to tell a difference between the two doing a double-blind.

I can't say how lovely these pieces of equipment are! I go and visit my mate once a week just to have a play with the Pioneer it is utterly gorgeous. The HXD2 is phenomenal - it cannot be beaten for the pricepoint.

Does that answer your question? No? Well bugger off then, I'll have more to report when I get the F#1 in the same room as the above two!

So I went and played with a F#1 tonight

The F#1 combo is more like the P90RS combo except the F#1 combo is much more criticle and particular on the setting of time alignment. Compared directly to the P90RS system the F#1 is slightly more detailed. Please keep in mind the F#1 system is nearly double the price! The good thing about the P90RS is that it can be used by itself (stand alone) unlike the F#1, which must be bundled with the processor.

The downside to the HXD2 has "only" 5 bands of equalization. Both F#1 and HXD2 menu system is a pain, whereas the P90RS combo has everything on-screen display, so you don't have to go back and forth in and out of multiple settings to get to what you want. Very easy to use when contrasted with the Clarion and Alpine.

However, it seems these units increase exponentially in price. Firstly the HXD2 can be had for around $2,000. The Pioneer units together are just under $4,000 and the Alpine units together was near $7,000 last time I looked.

The law of diminshing returns applies here. Use your discretion well. Overall hard to beat the HXD2, the Pioneer is very nice as is the Alpine but buy the Clarion and put the extra money in your frontstage.

have a look at my thread in this section

Yeah, but your thread didn't involve the new P90RS - the P9 is old news

I also haven't put in my thoughts on the Nakamichi CD700, the Alpine 7909 or the DRX9255 - I have access to them all also

Thanks ultim8DTM5 for your most valued input.

You have answered my question. I think in terms of value the Clarion will be my choice.

I have a lot of respect for Alpine but I can't afford their top line model and I don't need the extra features it has over the Clarion (DVD etc etc).

Just out of curiosity, the Clarion offers only up to 18 db/oct slopes for its inbuilt xover while the Alpines offer up to 24db/oct slopes. Is this such a big difference in reality or would the 18 db slopes of the Clarion be more than sufficient in real life??

Thanks again and best regards..

GABY

Hi Jas,

You make some very valid points. It is my intention to pay as much attention to the quality of the speakers I pick and also the installation but I wanted to make sure the source unit I pick is also up to the mark. I guess at the end of the day it is a matter of balance, it is no use having great speakers with a poor source and it is no good having a great source with speakers that can't reveal the difference in quality.

Thanks for your input Jas..

GABY

if you can live with limited eqing and non detachable face i would say that the clarion would be the winner

it just looks simply amazing and the volume knob feel is awesome.

from what ive read its capable of 4way x-over instead of the majority of top headunits only comming with 3way 6 channel outputs.

Yes the Clarion only has 5 bands of EQ (actually, it's 5 per side). This is not a weakness by any means.
What it means is that you may have to pay extra attention to tuning your system through carefull component selection and installation instead of relying on your processor to fix things.

This ultimately can provide a more fulfilling musical experience as it forces you to get most things spot on with the ability to then only adjust a "small" amount. Now "small" is a figure of speech as 5 bands (per side) of parametric EQ still is a whole lotta stuff to play with.

I was winning competitions with only 3 bands of parametric adjustment a few years ago and I'm of the opinion that if you have to adjust too much in too many areas, then there are deficiencies in the rest of the system that need attention before an EQ goes near them.

Now x-over slopes...
24 dB is not necessarily better than 18 but in my experience I do prefer a steeper roll off for the high pass end of each band for my set ups.
Having said this though, I will be using as a preference the settings in my head unit for accuracy and then comparing them to the 24dB analogue crossovers in my amps and simply picking the ones that sound best for me. I'm hoping that the head unit settings will be adequate as then I will have my adjustment all from the one unit and not spread over 3 peices of gear.

i just installed my D2, and what can i say.. its pretty impressive the sound of the top end is incredible very tight and controlled sound and i am hearing stuff i've never heard before on most of my cd's.
i dont think all the flashy specs mean much untill you've heard one

although i dont know what the fuss is about the volume knob! personaly i think its flimsy to small for my fat fingers and kinda slipery because the rubber bit is to far back to make contact with my large didgets

If you are planing on going full active and have some $$$ to spare. P90RS will kill D2 anyday. F1 is the best HU but cost much more. The best value for $$$ is still P90RS+DEQ-P90 you will have the ultimate tuning power in your hand.

H2 doesn't have enough tuning tools if you are planing to win EMMA or the similar. unless you mate it with UCS PRO or the similar

I'd go the Alpine unit over the Clarion!

Just because ive demo'd clarion units in the past comparing them against the equivelent alpine unit and found the alpine to feature better and sound alot better.

Ive personally always had Alpine HU's, currently im running a
CDA 9855R in my audi

The HX-D2 is the DRZ-9255.
DRX-9255 is the previous model HX-D1.

hear hear!! that knob is nothing special.

Ahh, this Clarion is pretty special though and is streets ahead of any of their other "mainstream" units.
This one is an "all out" model.

As I am aware, the HXD2 and the DRZ9255 are indentical; however there are quite a few differences between the HXD1 and the DRX9255, and not just cosmetically.

In my opinion

Best display Nakamichi CD700/ CD700MK11

Best feel of volume control Nakamichi CD700/ CD700MK11

Best stand alone head unit feature's Clarion HX-D2

Best ease of tuning with out board processing Pioneer P90RS + DEQP90

Best value for money stand alone unit Clarion HX-D2

Best value for money with out board processor Pioneer P90RS + DEQP90

Best at leaving a big hole in your pocket Alpine DVI 9990

Best SQ head unit ? still working this one out.

I have also heard the Alpine DVI 9990E / PXI H990 back to back with the Pioneer P90RS / DEQP90 in the same car and the Alpine was slightly better sounding.

This however could of been due to EQ differences etc.

Is it worth paying $7000.00 is another question.