Are Carputers the future of in-car entertainment? Who knows at this stage?

Regardless of whether they are here for the long run or not, you can not deny the impact they are having all over the world. In-car computers are huge at the moment because they offer so much more than a normal car stereo. Well actually, that statement is probably a bit far fetched. What I should have said was that Carputer controlled systems are more versatile than the current crop of Car audio systems and to top it all off, they are more cost effective too. Now, that is one hell of a statement and I am sure you are all dying to start the “Great Debate” however I feel these comments are justified given the current shape of the market.

The idea of this rant is not to share my opinions of the current in-car trends but more to give an in-site to the Carputer scene and break down the requirements for a complete system.

The Basics

The idea behind a home PC is generally to stretch the budget as far as possible in order to purchase the fastest CPU, most RAM and best featured Motherboard etc. Does that sounds about right to you? This is where the amateur Carputer builder goes wrong…I know I did

Carputers are generally not based around the powerful products because most modern components are extremely power hungry. A lot of people think that powering a P4 3.0gig computer with a 350watt PSU in their car is no big deal because their 1000watt Mono Block is doing just fine, right?...WRONG!! Sure, it can be done but there are a few things that need to be sorted out before you can throw Dad’s home office PC in your boot while he is away on vacation. Power is a major issue here but I will cover that later on.

Access Your Needs

Before you start buying components you need to work out what it is that you want to achieve. Are you simply after a mass mp3 storage device? If so then how big? Do you want to use GPS? Wireless Networking? Or maybe you want to be able to play the latest version of Underground in a more encouraging environment. Working out the aim of you project BEFORE you start throwing money around will ensure that you get everything right the first time around.

Ok so the aim of my Carputer is to store my entire mp3 collection, play DVD’s, access my wireless network, use GPS whilst using a motorized, in dash display which must be touch screen. Now that I have assessed my needs it is time to choose my components and work within my budget.

Looking at my list of needs above, it is clear as day that I do not need a “Holy Crikey That’s Fast, Batman” Carputer. At most I need a 1Gig CPU with 256-512Mg Ram, 40gig 5400 HD etc. The beauty of using a “not so hot” and “powerless” computer is in fact, EXACTLY THAT!! Slower CPU’s will produce far less heat and require far less power. Believe me when I say that this will be of benefit when I start to talk PSU’s.

Via Make some great Mini-ITX boards that include built in CPU’s which use very little power and they are extremely popular with the Carputer scene. They are commonly sold in 800 MHz-1.3 GHz models so it goes without saying that one of these boards will suit me need perfectly.

Ebay is your friend when you are building a system like this because you can save heaps on second hand parts!

Power To The Masses

Righto then, let’s talk about power…its great stuff isn’t it. Unfortunately we take it granted and it is not until we are in a DC power environment (in a car for example) that we realize how important it is to minimize our power consumption. For example, I am sitting here using my wireless keyboard and mouse, a P2.6 computer and a 42” monitor. I’ve got USB this and Bluetooth that…none of which ever gets turned off. Well, apart from the limited life TV that is. I have all this stuff running without a single thought of power consumption. Geez, I wonder how long it would last in the car .

When Powering a Carputer there are two options, Inverters and DC PSU’s. Both of which have their own advantages and disadvantages.

Inverters - are the most commonly know power converters and can be used for powering a range of electronic. There prices can vary greatly based on their output and features. The inverter works by converting the DC power from the battery into AC power to power the PC. The computers power lead plugs into the inverter just like a power point. Whilst Inverters are readily available, cheap, and easy to install, they are prong to induced noise and heat.

DC-DC PSU’s – are by far the best option if you are serious about the well being of your Carputer. These units are designed for the automotive environment and therefore have great features such as battery monitors and startup/shutdown controllers which automatically turn on/off your computer safely.

These PSU’s are slightly more involved to install that the inverters but the way I see it, if you can build a computer then you can install this! Unfortunately, DC-DC PSU’s are more expensive then inverters, especially if you are running a powerful computer however I feel this is justified given the extra features and safety.

Ft you are planning to use a DC-DC power supply then you need to choose your other components wisely, otherwise you many find that you are paying out hundreds in order to power your computer. For example, I will probably need to spend around $150 on an M2ATX PSU to power my proposed system. My P4 2.6 home PC would probably need a DSATX PSU which would cost the most part of $300-$320AU…Ouch!

In order to find out whether your selected PSU can power you computer, simply locate your CPU here and take note of the Max Power Dissipation column. Unfortunately these are no details for my CPU so I’m guessing around 35watt. The PSU I have selected it the M2-ATX which runs a 12v rail at 8Amps. To find out whether the PSU will power the CPU you simply the “Rail Voltage” x “Amps”. So in this case we multiply 12 x 8 = 96watts which will be enough to power everything. You need the power output to exceed the power of the CPU because there are obviously other system components that will require power.

To Be Continued…

Great write up, Good read!!!

For beginners this is a must to read....

Cant wait till you post up more

Carputer Case Crazy

The case you choose for your system really depends on the look you are going for and what you are planning on doing with the system. The first question that you need to ask yourself is whether or not you want the system to be removable. If so then I would suggest that you stick to a Micro-ATX computer case and a solid box as I am sure you don’t want to be juggling components to and from the car. Secondly, do you want to have your system on show or hidden away? :ninja:

In today’s market there are plenty of purpose built Micro-ITX cases available. Most of these are quite expensive for their size but are still affordable. There are also a select few that are being sold with DC power supplies which is a bonus. Once again, EBay is quite friendly when it comes to Micro-ITX cases with plenty of Aussie and overseas sellers. Prices generally start from $100au. Plus shipping

Other common install options consist of glove boxes, tire wells, boot compartments, wooden MDF boxes, or simply a flat piece of Ply or MDF. All of these options are extremely cost affective as the dearest option here is the MDF box which would cost around $10 for the materials and a ventilation fan.

From what I have seen over the last couple of weeks, I can honestly say that there are some extremely creative minds out there. Take this link for example (Click Here) well…I exactly am not sure what category that one falls into but hey, I’m funky with it! A great idea there.

It is great to see that people are steering away from the “off the desk and into the boot” approach to Carputers. There is nothing more unsettling than when someone is showing off there Carputer system install which consists of their older brothers hand-me-down server tower case, complete with weight reduction techniques such as missing side panels. These installs are usually being held in place by occy straps and zip ties….Don’t laugh as it does happen!

The VGA Visualization

Now I am sure many of you have tried to hook the Composite (RCA style) TV-OUT on your computer into the AV Input on you TV or Alpine/Pioneer screen and wondered why the picture is unclear. Well to cut a long (and mind numbing) story short I will give you all a very simple rule of thumb :

TV-OUT into AV Input = Unreadable Text and unclear picture but clear video
S-Video Out into S-video Input = Unreadable Text and unclear picture but clear video
VGA Out into VGA Input = Bloody Terrific! B)

NOTE :: “Gender Benders” are no more convincing to your screen as they are to you on a drunkin night out. In other words, don’t bother using a convervion plug to make a composite look like a S-Video etc, because it will not work.

Basically, TV-Out’s in Composite or S-Video are designed to carry TV signals only and not the higher resolution of a PC monitor. Not to worry though, you will not do any damage to any of your components by using these methords. However if you are planning on spending good money and your computer, then surely you would like to see the results and use the system as you initially intended. Remember that you will actually be driving your car so I doubt that you will have time to bend over 4inches from the screen in an attempt to pick your next song.

VGA out into a VGA compatible LCD screen is the way to go as it provides the best possible resolution and image. Unfortunately there are not many quality brands on the market that currently offer VGA inputs, besides 15” and up computer monitors that it. Infact there are only about 3 or 4 brands that are to be considered trustworthy. The VGA screen market is currently flooded with “No Name Wanna-Be Companies” that are taking advantage of the fact that the so called “Market Leaders” have not yet pulled the finger out! Could you imagine the feeding frenzy if Alpine release an affordable VGA screen tomorrow…Crikey!

Two quality brands that spring to mind are Lilliput and Xenarc. Both of these companies have very similar offering with Xenarc being slightly ahead in terms of quality but also in price. Both of these companies offer VGA monitors with touch screen technology in sizes ranging from 7” through to around 10”-11” and their prices seem quite reasonable. These screens can also be purchased as single din, motorized, in-dash and roof top models for those of you that don’t want to customize your dash. Before you buy a screen make sure that you work out where it is going to be installed. 7” screen are the most popular at the moment because that can be easily moulded into the dash without too much hassle and they provide decent visibility. A 15” LCD monitor might be considered over kill but hey, if you can pull it off tastefully then Bob’s your aunty! Go For It!

Touch screen monitors will definitely come in handy whilst you are on the road as I am sure that you don’t want to get the keyboard and mouse out every time you want to skip songs, set navigation etc.

fantastic read. Very down to earth write up. well done mate

Great work! Continue!

Can I just ask the source of this ?

The information has been gathered by myself over a period of time. I noticed that no one seems to write any guides that can be easily absorbed by a person with little or no experience, so I thought I would share my knowledge of the basics.

There is still plenty to be written and posted.

Hey great write up mate


Just curious if you could go into detail about connecting the PC to the sound system and etc?


Cheers,

Jason

I hope i'm not hyjakking here, but in reply to Music Pirate's question, I plan on running my carputer through 3 amps, 2 subs, 2 pairs of splits and 2 pairs of full range speakers. I'm lucky because 1 of the amps I picked up has a passthrough plug, so I have just passed the sound through (RCA's) from the master amp to the slave, the 3rd amp will require an RCA splitter box to be used properly. ATM I just run a Laptop through the 2x 2channel amps into 4 full range speakers and 1 sub - no Front or Rear options.

If you dont have a passthrough plug on your amp, you will need an RCA splitter / booster box full stop - this is basically a box with 1xRCA in, and 2-3xRCA out. Electronically savvy people would have no problem in building one up themself, wiring it up to a POTS (Potentiometer or Variable Resistor) which acts as volume controller and can be wired anywhere in car. Jaycar sell kits which allow for Front / Rear fading which could easily be wired up also and allows for using a seperate Front / Rear amp - So in theory a whole pre-amp setup could be built up under $100.

Something like this isnt *required* but handy if you dont want to nearly crap your pants every time you plug something into your system thats at full volume. It will also stop that thumping noise you get when you plug things in with the power on, so you can change devices (PC to iPod) whilst driving and not worry about blowing speakers / amps up or turning off the car.

The actual connection from the PC would usually be made with a 3.5mm headphone jack into RCA plugs, however if you had the $$ you could probably get a full digital setup and run fibre optics between your pc and amps and have crystal clear sound, however it would be more difficult to build your own volume / fader controller.

Anyway thats my little bit,
Nice writeup trdcamry - it was a good read.

Thanks for thre reply sid!

Well most HU now (upper model ones) have Fibre optic in don't they? And as most descent sound cards aroudn $200 + have fibre out i believe I think it sounds like the best option?


Cheers,

Jason

Ignore post, meant to write comment in another thread

Now i mean bump!

well i will back 90% of what he said and who am i you wonder. i'm a pc hardware specialist and I'm also a sponsored gamer you could say i live and breathe pc hardware. I run my own IT business where I build computers for some local company’s and I run a lan event. i can't say much about the touch screens and psu's just because i have never had any dealing with them in computers but the hardware side of things he is right on the money. the only thing i can pick holes in is the amount of ram in the computer which would be ok but if your running windows XP you might want 1gb. having said that it will be ok only running 512mb on run in window xp if your only playing mp3's and video's i don't know anything about the GPS software and how taxing it will be on the computer. i don't know if i would use a via cpu and mobo combo because the onboard video is not great on them but i am able to do some testing on one to have a look. i will do some research on the whole car computer thing and post what i would use myself and why.

your doing a great job trdcamry keep it coming because this is really a good no bullcrap thread so far which people should listen to.

sorry my spelling is all farked up i have been up for 26 hours and i my way to bed now

I run Frodoplayer, a hightech audio processing program (30MB), and GPS.

While I am running all 3 at full load, and watching a 700MB avi, I only use about 280MB ram.

I run 2 x 256DDR (in dual channel).. and I wouldnt bother with getting anymore, and theres no real point in having any less. 2 x 128MB wont cut it. (128 + 256 wont run in Dual channel.)

The more RAM u have, the larger your HIBERNATE file is. That means longer hibernate and resume from hibernate times, and increased HDD usage - al for little/no gain. (you can use the /maxmem=xxx in boot.ini) to force Winxp to only use a certain amount of RAM... but if you dont already have the extra capacity, dont waste money buying it

Anyone know much in regards to fibre optic from sound card to HU?

Great w' tru trdcamry,

& good replys,

I'm a complete noobie in carputers, so it was a great place to start.



Question are you going to keep adding?



I hope so.



Cheers Bruza

Hi there trdcamry, i'm also new to the car-puter scene but would like to build one up over time. Not only great to have a computer with such expandability and functionality in the car but also links in well for experience in my IT course . Anyways, i have a brief question.



Now time and money are always of the essence when i'm working on the car and i think i'd prefer to go for an option which involved using just a single head unit with a motorized touch screen so that i don't have to do too much chopping up or fibreglassing to chuck in a screen. I know it looks alot smoother nicely embedded in fibreglass, but quite frankly i don't think i have the time or money to invest in that right now. So the question is, if i bought something like say a Pioneer or Alpine motorized touch screen unit with VGA input (if such a thing exists) is the picture quality up to scratch with the other brand motorized screens you've recommended? Is there any options in the market at present that are sold primarily as touchscreen headunits that still have all the expandability required to turn into a car pc in the sense of playing songs from hard disk, gps navigation and all the other jazz that you could be after from a car pc?



Any input on this is much appreciated, cheers, Bryce.

Anyone?

I don't think any of the audio orientated screens have VGA input (Alpine, Pioneer etc). You could use TV out from the PC and video will look good but text will look bad.

Gordo is correct.
None of the Car audio brand screens use VGA input. They use Tv-out/S-Video and it will look mediocre IMHO. Also, the touch screen/controls from the Car audio brand screens will not interface into your computer to control the PC software.

You can now buy motorized singleDin indash touch LCD screens. Quality is not bad for the screen.. but Ive heard that the motorized mechanism isnt very good on most units - gears strip, cogs crack, etc
Also, when pushing against the screen you will feel the slight 'play' or backlash in the gears which hold it in postion. I find this frustrating when the screen moves (even 1mm) when i press it, and as such have mounted my screen in a double Din space permanently.

Perhaps get a manual flip out one.. and avoid the hassle of the gear problems, or better yet, a dual Din and mount it permanently if space permits.

Ok, as i've mentioned installation is an issue and you can guess that i'm trying to avoid having a meeting with old mate fibreglass. So another question i have is are many of the 7" screens (or bigger or smaller) made to fit double DIN exactly (talking non motorized permanently mounted)? Also if this were possible, what are some options for mounting a head unit if you've taken up a double DIN space? Is a meeting with fibreglass inevitable? Also, is it possible to complete bypass having a headunit and use a quality sound card in the car-pc so that all music you will play is coming from hard-disk, or does the head-unit have to be the kind of 'middle man' that processes the music in the whole equation (and hence is mandatory)?

Absolutely don't need a headunit! You can run S/PDIF out straight to a processor like the Alpine H701 (not actually sure if it has coax in or just optical...) or through a DAC like the Nakamichi unit.

I have had many long thoughts about selling my CD8455 and getting a H701 and bypassing the headunit, but I love my Eclipse so much

Yay! Bye bye Sony headunit if i ever get around to setting up a car PC. So i'm assuming with a decent processor you can get results the same if not superior to a good quality headunit from the carPC? (Sound quality wise).



Also, something else i've been thinking about... I'm sure some of you are familiar with some of the vehicle dynamics features you can use with one of the touch screen model Pioneer headunits (after buying the appropriate unit to compliment it) that lets you monitor a number of things on screen (speed, temp etc etc). Is there any universal hardware or software out there at present that allows you to do the same sort of thing with a car PC setup? Once again, any input is much appreciated (pardon the pun), cheers, Bryce.

If you do chose to run the PXA unit make sure you DONT use the analogue input. Only use digital inputs into the PXA from your PC. The PXA's Analogue to Digital converter is the weak link (by a lot) in the SQ chain within that processor. Ensure you only pass audio into it via digital means, and avoid SQ degredation - cause once you lose quality you can't recreate it.

Okie dokie, alot of the technical terms at the moment don't mean a whole load to me but i'm sure over time and after bugging you friendly folk some more it'll all come together. cheers, Bryce

Over time? Never!

Ask questions now so that way you're heeeeaps more eager to spend money

Ok, in that case, does anybody wanna give me a quick example run down on the connections side of thing? So far i know this much - VGA goes from computer to touch screen yay! . Nah i'm fine with headunits to amplifiers to speakers connections etc but when you start talking carputers it sounds like you start chucking a few more spanners in the works as far as connections go. So if anybody could give a basic run down on what goes from where to where to hook up a stereo system integrated with a car pc when your NOT using a headunit but a processor instead that'd be great

It's basically just a source unit. You need to get the signal from the computer to the processor.

The Alpine PXA-H701 (which is the processor most would suggest that you use) only has optical inputs (also Ai-Net and RCA) so you need to find a solution. You could convert the S/PDIF to optical, you could buy a mobo with optical onboard or you could buy a soundcard with optical output. I suggest the later because even though 'digital is digital' sounds correct, there are factors that can degrade the final signal so you want to spend on something proven.

Hope that helps a bit

Ok, here comes the stupidity, what is S/PDIF? Also how much am i looking at paying for a soundcard with optical output?



P.S. Are you the beast doing up that yellow mighty boy that i've seen round these forums? If so, good job!

I *think* it's Sony/Phillips Digital InterFace. It's a digital signal (ones and zeros) sent through normal cable. Unlike optical which is ones and zeros sent through glass fibres (by varying the light intensity). Not sure about soundcards because I haven't looked much into that. I hear M-Audio ones are good for music though...

The Mighty Boy is mine Slow progress until I get a whole bunch of money I'm owed. Thanks for the comment.

Since we are talking about audio in carputers. Is there anything out on the market that would have 4 RCA outs to connect to my amp??

This is one area that has got me stuck in carputers

Wouldn't 5.1 soundcards have 6 discrete outputs? Come to think of it I'm pretty sure even the Via EPIA boars can be configured that way, you just need 3.5mm -> RCA converters.

digging this up a little bit here, but thought it was relevant.

Gordo has described SPDIF as a digital signal sent through ordinary cable rather than optic fibres. I've been doing a bit of window shopping online and came across this:

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/produ...14064&nav=1

looking in the specs there is the following line:

Optical SPDIF input and output: Two optical connectors


i see the words "optical" and "SPDIF" used in the same sentence which goes against what has been said above. Can anybody explain? Cheers.

Sorry, I should have clarified.

Coaxial S/PDIF is over normal RCA/Coax. Optical S/PDIF is over fibre. Whenever I talk about either I refer to Coaxial S/PDIF as S/PDIF and optical S/PDIF as optical.

Hope that helps.

yup thanks. So as far as sound integrity and quality would a optical or coaxial SPDIF be the better link between the sound card and the processor?

Fibre Optics would be the better interconnect for sound just as it is for Home HiFi / Theatre.

Ok cheers. I'm sure you're right so don't take this as an insult, but when it comes to spending money i like to try and 'get it right the first time', so would everyone else agree that optical is the way to go?

In a normal car why bother with optical, if its an SQ setup then yeah go for it.
Optical cables dont like to be bent, word of warning.
Coax is just as good as optical in most cases!

how do you mean don't like to be bent? As in 'kink in a hose stopping water flowing' sort of bent or even just loops and stuff?

Fibre Optic cable is not reknown for being tightly bent 90º thru 180º (kinked). But given that you're source unit (PC) & processor are likely to be in close proximity to one another then I don't see it as a problem. If you were running from a Head Unit (dash) to the Processor in the rear of the car then I'd still use Optical cable but would route it accordingly. As far as I know you don't get signal interference with optics, hence the preference.

Cheers thanks for the replies

Well the big quality leap is between analogue (RCA's etc.) and digital (opti and coax) and then opti is a little better because light doesnt pick up much interference!
Just personal preference really
I wouldnt go optical because most of the cables are really fragile, they are a tube of thin palstic and arent very flexible and you can crack them easily.

Optical cables aren't that fragile that they'ed be a problem IMO, as long as you route them properly I don't think it'd be an issue. And considering the amount of electrical interference inherent in a car I reckon anything thats immune to it is a Very Good Thing.
I'm toyng with the idea of setting up my Mac mini as a carputer and I'd definitely be taking the optical route with it.

ok i think im getting an idea here

i plan on getting a screen to fit in the whole vs dash part so no deck put a dvd burner in the glove box, and run itunes a movie player and gps, thats it wat would be my approach????

oh by the way SQ is my goal and my sig is wat im curently running