Ok so im planning the new build up of my stereo and i need some opinions.

I've got a 9815 and a jaycar 4channel(4x130wrms) ready 2 go for my front stage. I was thinkin go 2way active but b4 ive even installed my splits ive broken them(long story) as i have 2 start again i thought id go bigger and better. I want 2 go 3way semi active dual 6.5" in the doors and tweets, well... wherever they sound best.

Thinking of either using jaycar kevlar 6.5" and also jaycar has some kevlar mids which are alot more beefy(80wrms, heavy buggers too) than the ones in the splits and retail for 80bux each. (about $320 bux retail)

Alternativly ill be using DDC6.5's and a DDW6.5 (about $800 retail)

So, by using alpines bass engine pro i can do anything i want with the slopes, crossover points yada yada.

1. My thoughts were run semi active say using crossover points around 80hz(active) 500-600(active) and then 3-4khz(passive). The splits off 2 channels and the extra mids off the other 2.

2. Alternatively i was thinking of using 2 of the same 6.5"(be it jaycar or DDW6.5's or DDC6.5's) and basically running a 2-way but with both mids playing say between 80-3khz(no passives).

Now I know there are alot better amps out there than the jaycar and my choice of splits seems strange($500 difference) but i work there so i can pick up the jaycar gear alot cheaper which is making it a very viable option...

obviously there is alot of work setting up(positioning, mounting) 3ways and tuning 4channels(TA, gains, crossovers, etc.) but I want to do it so I will! now obviously if i bought everything retail(dd speakers and jaycar amp) its about $1,000 worth of stuff and for that i can get my self a nice big 2chan(or small 4chan) and some sweet ass 2-ways(say $6-700splits $3-400amp)

i would like, in your expert opinions(disrgarding actual component choice) on whether 2 run a semi active 3way or a 2way with 2mids per side.

if i went 3ways the mid and tweet would have 130wrms on tap, the mids basses wold have 130wrms on tap. if i went the 2nd option i would have 130wrms for the tweeter and 190wrms for the 2mids(95wrms each)

some may say try each and see how it goes but if i go 3way the midbass and midrange will be different drivers(thus it will probably sound junk if i have them playing the same freqs(sensitivity and diff characteristics etc...)) so i have 2 decide b4 i buy...

I'm assuming your running a 9833, or 9853/9855.

I would suggest simply running a 2 way setup, either buy 2 complete pairs of splits, meaning 2 tweets and 2 mids, or just run 1 complete set.

the reasion I suggest this is because when you run the 3 way arrangement in the alpine, the time alignments are only offered for the High/Mid/Low separate, meaning 1 for tweeters, 1 for midbass, 1 for sub.

the issue you run into if you run the Semi Active 3 way, is that your Mid/Tweeter on the passive will have stuffed time alignment capability because the mid and tweeters will all be different distances on the same channel.

My suggestion is to stick with fully active using the arrangement you want to use,
this way you can mount your tweeters up on the dash in the pillars, to have a nice high sound stage, and keep the mids in the doors, if you want to have 2 x 6" woofers, then buy 2 pairs of splits, run 2 tweeters also, then everything can work very easily without 1 component trying hard to keep up with the rest.

Another suggestion is also to run 2 x 4 channel amps, loading up impedances on your Front stage isn't a good idea, in regards to sound quality, I would suggest 1 x 4 channel amp for the tweeters and 1 for the midbass. or run the 2 x 150 on the tweeters, but run them in series (8ohm) they will be smoother and less harsh in that arrangement. the midbass your still gonna want pretty solid power at 4ohm. I don't suggest running 2ohm if you want them to still sound nice, at 2 ohm the amp will run, but your damping factor goes out the window, which is pretty important for clean clear midbass.

Suggestion 1.

1 x Jaycar splits
1 x Jaycar 4 channel amp to run splits active
1 x Sub and Sub amp
1 x Alpine deck.

Suggestion 2.
2 x Jaycar splits
1 x Jaycar 4 channel amp to run Midbass speakers
1 x Jaycar 2 channel 2 x 150 to run Tweeters (in 8 ohm)
1 x Sub and Sub amp
1 x Alpine Deck.

Suggestion 3.
2 x Jaycar splits
1 x Jaycar 4 channel amp to run Midbass
1 x Jaycar 4 channel amp to run tweeters (could be the 4x50 if you like)
1 x Sub and Sub Amp
1 x Alpine deck.

I believe at jaycar they sell brown bread, make sure you use a bundle of it to deaden your doors to hell.
suggest getting some Cell foam, or Focal plain chant/Dynamat Dynaxorbs with 2 x midbass, your going to have alot of reverse waves coming off the speakers, these can be soaked up by the products above, which will greatly reduce distortion and improve midrange quality dramatically.

I really don't suggest getting 2 pairs of splits and running them off a 4 x 100 all at 2 ohm.. the whole front stage is just going to totally lack precision and warmth.. it will go hard.. no doubt about that. but it will sound crap.

Forget the 3 way active/passive setup, unless you can get a 4" midbass and run it on the dash next to the tweeter.

regards
Juls

yeah forget the twin mid idea and just get a good quality 2 way set up. It will work far better from an SQ POV and cost the same...money is better spent getting higher quality drivers IMO as the speaker have THE most influence on results
peace
Cyberpunky

juls, as stated in orig post ive got a 9815(same features as the 9833,35,53,55)... also, i intend 2 fully deaden the doors(probably dynamat extreme bulk pack and use that JUST on the doors) and seal off service holes(regardless what speaker setup i go with).

Cyberpunky, I understand completely that spending more money on a 2way setup will yeild greater results and that was what i 1st intended 2 go for(my orig splits, which are now broken)

i want good sound but im building my car into a very tidy streeter and intend 2 enter a few shows, so one of things im looking at is 2 make it "look" good as well.

here is my though, if i say buy DDC6.5's i can set them up 2 sound good using 2 chans running passive. i can then "add" a little extra midbass by putting in the additional 6.5" if i do it right it shouldn't detract from the 2ways already good sound... obviously going "better" 2ways i should get that better sound in the 1st place.

I've got my heart set on doing 3ways, it will fill my doors up nicely and it will give me greater experience in tuning and installing(ive never done 3ways b4)

im really after opinions which might sound better the dual 6.5" 2way or the 3way...

i wasnt intending 2 use time alignment at 1st(if at all), ur point is valid tho and it would be nice 2 have the feature usable.

i understand about damping factors and all that. this is why i was opting for the 4x130 rather than the 4x50 it means ive got plenty of power(without going down 2 ohm) and also plenty of headroom(jaycar spltis are rated at 60wrms and the mids are rated at 80)

as for your suggestions i drive a tonner and have only room for 2 amps 1 is the monoblock(i guess i could fit a 4x50 and a 2x80 instead of a 4x130)

hey mate...

having some moderate experience with 3 way splits up front, (as you already know) i say IF YOU CAN fit them in, go for it.

ive heard decent 2 way split systems with moderate drivers, compared to mine, and i do like mine more, even with the minimal power and variety of drivers i do have, (but itll be better wen i get my bigger amp in there, thats another story)...

as for drivers, if possible, go for a 6.5 midbass, a 4" midrange and ur tweeters, like mine, though this may not be possible with ur selection of brand of drivers.

having said that, u should also consider going 2 sets of jaycar 6.5" splits, as mounting ONE more tweeter will be easy, and you have a little more tunability there, if one is angled and one isnt, or one facing passenger, one facing driver, on each side etc etc. i also think that 2 pairs would look very nice...

then again, as suggested going ONE pair of 'better' 2 way splits may be arguably better than going 2 pairs of 'lesser' splits, but thats upto you


as for amping it all, if u were to go 2 pairs, id go 1x 4x130 for mids, and 1x 4x50 for the tweeters... nice...

if u were to go 2x 6.5" mids and 1 tweeter, id say 1x 4x130 for the mids, and 1x 2x80 for the tweeters...

if u were to go just one pair of good splits, go for just one 4x130, run active...


as for fitting the amps in the ute, dont worry, WE'LL MAKE THEM FIT!! LOL

wotever u choose mate, ill be there to help ya with making the door pods, no challenge is too hard mate...

cheers...

It would be a good idea if you read my post properly,

anyway.

If your dead set on a 3 way setup, it would be possible to do it and keep your time alignment,
however you will need to mount your tweeters low in the door with the woofer. and you could get away with 1 x 4/100 jaycar amp alone.

Don't discount your time alignment, it's the one thing that will actually make a massive difference to the quality of your sound stage. This is because your drivers side speakers are so much closer to you than your passenger side speakers, and you will always hear your drivers side speakers first, then your passengers.

with Time alignment, you just delay your drivers side speakers the correct amount, and then you personally hear both speakers at the same time, which will raise your sound stage and centre it usually in front of you.

better to have the lady singing in front of you, rather than singing out of the ass of your right hand door.

Time aligning your sub to your midbass, also will bring the bass up in front of you, and the mid kick and the sub bass will match together, rather than the the mid kick sounding separated from your bass.

I've had extensive experience with the 9833, 9853 and 9855 decks as well as Eclipse 8053 wiring the way you are planning, and the setup does work very very well in the right hands.

My suggestion is still to run a single set of splits with a high mounted tweeter, with the time alignment properly set, it's piece of cake to setup, just read your manual, use a tape measure and a calculator.
(if you don't have your manual, let me know and I'll let you know the formula to working it out)

If you really want 2 midbass, I still think run 2 pairs of splits to get the big midbass kick.
Sound quality wise, you'd be better off spending $400 on a set of good splits. but then you should use 2 amps on the front stage. (you don't have to though)

I've got a better idea though,
if you've got room, get 4 6" Midbass, and 1 pair of splits, and arrange a 3 way setup in your door, with 2 6" Midbass, 1 6" Midrange and 1 tweeter on 2 4 x 100 amps.. (or one if your budget conscious) how cool would that be!! hahaha
X/Over at about 200-300hz midbass-mid and 3-4kz from mid to tweeter. there is lots of things you could do.
I think your trying to do something unconventional, nothing wrong with that.

Just try to work with the features the deck offers, then you will gain the best tuning and audio experience.

Regards
Juls

i think it will be best for me 2 go 2 6.5" mids(the same) and run them both from 80-3khz(or there abouts) if i put the mids right next 2 each other it shouldn't bother the TA i keep the 4chan and run the 2 rear chans at 2ohm(they will sound a little more muddy because of damping factor being halved(i think))

i dotn have the room for 6channels of amplification(2amps plus mono) and my HU doesnt support a 3way front stage so alltho it would be nice i cant get it 2 its best with my space requirements and my current gear.

and then i dont need passives and can run active crossovers from my HU... i can upgrade components as i go(such as amps) i think ill save up and run 2 DDW6.5's rather than the jaycar stuff(i kno its cheap) but i want it to sound good!!!

so your going to go 2 x Midbass and 2 x Tweeters right?

That would work cool, but 2 x Midbass and 1 x Tweeter, would only work well if all the midbass where the same ones. your tweeter might not be able to keep up, but it should be ok.

If your going 2 x Midbass and 2 x tweeters, why not get a 4 x 50 amp for $200 for the tweeters as well?

would be worth it.

Keep us posted how the project goes

Kind regards
Juls

yeh if u get 2 sets of DDC6.5s, one pair per side ($329 a pair, x2 = $658) would be better, and get a 4x130 for the mids and a 4x50 for the tweeters...

if u were to go 2 DDW6.5s per side, (thats $259 each, x4 = $1036, plus tweeters and amps...)

wouldnt u be better off with 2 pairs of DDC6.5s, (one pair per side)

or am i totally misunderstanding what ur saying...?

ddw6.5's are more expensive because they are better. i have tweeters from the splits i broke so i can simply buy 4mids...

i was planning to run 2 mids and 1tweeter each side.

as you very well know. i have no room for a 4x50 a 4x130 and a 1x820

altho it would be nice 2 run 2 mids 2 tweets(maybe 2 as ambients?) i dotn have enough channels 2 do it unless i run it all at 2ohm but again my damping factor(the ability of the amp 2 control the speaker) is halved so the sound wont be as Clear or accurate.

i just realised i may have room for 2 4x50's or a 4x130 and a 2x80 (by stacking one on top of the other(with room for air of course)) but again i dotn have the HU 2 control 8-10channels(yes i can use splitters etc.)

ppl have suggested sticking with one 2 or 4chan amp and 1 set of 2way splits. spend the money on higher quality components(rather than 2 lots of cheaper 1's)

what you are suggesting Mad89 and you too Juls(in part) is making it even more complicated than i was originally suggested, if i keep adding more amps and speakers it wont make the 1st lot sound any better. i want somthing simple that sounds good and looks great(hard when on a budget). the reason im going 3way is 2 stand out a bit from the norm. if it means i sacrifice a bit of SQ 2 get a bit more OOOO's and AHHHH's then ill do it(i wont stray 2 far from the SQ path tho.)

but having matching drivers and tweeters makes sense... if it were me id sell the tweeters u already ahve, and get 2 sets of DDC6.5s...

get the 4x130 for the mids and the 4x50 for the tweeters...

y are u worried about splitting the RCA outputs? its a ute, u got no rears, so therefore wont need a fader...

wouldnt u simply split the front RCA outputs for the tweeters, and splits the rear RCA outputs for the 6.5mids, then u have a dedicated sub out put...

or will this not work?

Just do what your heart tells you too man.
at the end of the day, it's you that has to be happy with it.
just suggesting what would work best.

there is no doubt, 1 pair of splits on 1 amp is still the best solution, not the most flashy.
but the most practical in all senses.

Juls

Speak to k_p he runs a similar set-up in his E36.

I beleive the way Car Tunez set it up was:

DD T1 Tweeters - 2x75W from half a C4
DD C6.5 Mids - 2x250W from other half of C4 at 2 ohms

It has amazing dynamics and killer mid-bass, espcially considering the modest cost.

We also have a new set using the W6.5 "big" mids and T1 tweeters for $499.

I did a new Golf Gti for a mate of mine before Christmas, I went fully active with T1 tweeters, Scanspeak 2.5" mids and C6.5 midbass.

Two C4s run tweeters with 2x75, mids with 2x75 and midbass with 2x150. The last two channels delivering 500W to a single 10".

The Gti has a factory 10 channel amp, but the input signal was too high to run staight into the amps, so I used an Alpine LOC. I was stagged at the results, we thought we'd have to custom fit a new deck, but the factory set up shocked us both.

Hopefully he's bringing it to the CAASQ comp at Harry's.

Phil

cheers for all who had input, ill probably revive this thread when i actually start the install(cant install without an interior or doors or glass or electrics or a dash.... ok ok i have lots 2 do 1st)