Hello all,
I am soon to get a newer car, 2001 WRX and I want a new system to go in it. I would like a system that is concentrated mostly on SQ (I'm not worried about visual appeal) for listening to electronic music (trance, progressive, drum n bass etc). I am not planning on goin in comps or nething.

My budget would be about $4000, I already have a Alpine CDA-9815 in my current car so I won't need a head unit. So I guess this would include splits, 2-channel amp, monoblock amp for sub and subwoofer. The money would also include installation, sound deadening, wiring etc.

So what would you recommend for components?
Also would like to hear peoples opinions on where to go, I went to Technik last time and they were pretty good but all options are open.

Cheers!

Personally, considering the way most dance music is recorded (Im a massive fan of trance & vocal trance myself) I would go for a 'surrounding' atmosphere as opposed to a full front stage image. Which means you will need to get rear-fill. Im sure a lot of other people on here disagree, but I dont beleive Dance is recorded so that you can locate drummers and guitarists and pianists etc... but just for enveloping emotive sound instead. In fact, most vocalists in dance music tend to be either to one side of centre (either left or right) or simply 'all around'. For Armin Van Buurens Boundaries of Imagination set, there is a period there where one of the vocalists are coming from the far left of stage, whilst the rest of the music is central.

For Dance id be leaning towards the following.
Fronts: Rainbows Kicks, Bostons, Morel, Dyn (with the 8") $1000-1200
You are best getting 2-ways for that type of music, as I have found that most of the dance I listen to is biased towards the higher and the lower ends of the spectrum. Mids on a 3-way would just be a waste of money here IMO. Try the wide-range tweeters as well. Esotar/Vifa/Scanspeak/Supremo are all worthy
Rears: Same brand as fronts, but maybe a lower line. $300 Try for a 5 1/2" without the tweeter. Gives you the enveloped feeling without the extra tweeters competing with your main ones.
Amps: Audison SRx or LRx, DD (M1 and C4), JBL, JL Audio, Phoenix Gold $800 for splits and $800 for subs
Subs: You should really look at DD here (DD3510D), as most others dont come close on dance beats. IDMAX10 and JLW3 or W0 subs are also good. Sealed usually does more justice, but I have heard some killer dance tracks from DD subs in ported boxes that just melt your legs from under ya! $600-800

If you went to Technik, Im assuming your in Perth. If so, give Audio art n tech a look in, as well as Alberts Morley/Myaree and Sounds Xplosive. All good stores.

Keeping in mind most dance tracks have their bass centred at about 70-80Hz, you should definetly look into hardhitting mids on your splits (ie. Rainbows kickbass)

Talking of surround sound, I like it sometimes and I have my rear fill on an extra switch to flick between the two ways quickly, rather than using the fader (cos that takes too long)

just an idea

Admittedly I don't mind sound behind me sometimes either

I used to think that too.

Once your front stage goes loud enough though, you don't miss it

tispaul, thematt.. for liking trance, u guys (girls?) r sikunts another trance head here



EXACTLY the words ive been lookin for when friends who know abit about car audio ask me y i run rearfill when theyve jumpd on the 'front stage/imaging only' bandwagon. when i go clubbin, the music 'surrounds' me, it doesnt only come from one direction (*shudders* just thinkin bout it if it did). guess this is where we can split into 2 groups - the clubber who likes and is used to 'surround' sound or sum1 who goes to concerts, etc & is used to having everything coming from in front.

i do agree with stazed tho, i only have 'surround' sound at low/moderate listening levels. once i turn it UP, i cant hear my rearfill at all n im not missin it !

Yeh big fan mate can't wait for Anne Savage to touch down in May

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I think I will definately go with some rear fill, I listen nearly exclusively to studio and live sets.

~thematt~, when you mention wide range tweeters, what do you mean by this?

If you have some rear fill you can always fade it in and out depending on the type of music you listen to. If you've got the cash then why not? Sometimes you might concentrate only on a full front stage, and others you might crank some trance and feel like being IN the sound with your rear fill pumping away.

sikunts....thats good right?? uh, yay me (and this one is a guy thankyou!!).

Ditto. But I think thats because at those volumes, the sound is coming from inside my head, not in-front of me

By wide ranging tweeters, I mean the Supremo's/Revelators/Esotar's and the like. The tweeters that have the ability to play quite low (1.5-2k) whilst still maintaining composure, as well as the ability to play quite high (above 16-18k) for that ambience and detail. If these arent in the budget, definetly give the metal tweets a listen. That detail really hits you in the face, where-as I have found the soft-domes tend to blend a bit much the vocals with the rest of the music, they just dont stand out like their meant to.

Dance music usually uses the token females screaming their lungs out, and wide-range tweeters or metal tweets bring this right in-your-face. Sends shivers down your spine. So play on it, use it to your advantage. Dont worry about male vocals, because most of them are really deep toned. Like the guy from TV Rock.

with my techno i have found that if i fade the rearfill to the extent that you cant tell where its coming from but you can tell that its around you,this is perfect ,and with the power up front and greater sound coming towards you is even perfecter

For doof / untz / dance etc, the feel of surround does give the 'club' feel, but if you've been to live performances / raves / concerts then you are more accustomed to a soundstage of sorts.

[shrug] It's just a matter of individual taste.

Cheers - OT.

-deleted-

A curious concept to me, an SQ system for electronic music!!

I've actually always enjoyed my fair share of dance, trance, high energy and the like, but unfortunately it's one of those rare cases where havign a really good SQ system can actually make it sound worse rather then better...

All a good setup will do is bring out every little fault in the music (and in this type of stuff, there is more bad then good) and every second song will make you cry from harshness.

At least this is the affect it had for me!

But anyhowssssss!

For dance music, i'd make a few recommendations.

1) You want a sub that will be comfortable crossed abit higher.

I used to use a 50-60hz crossover point in my last install, and found it doesn't work as well in dance music where the majority of bass is tight, punchy bass in the 70hz - 120hz regions. I still thik depth is important though, as some good tracks have some deep heavy bass hits, which will sound wrong without some reasonable depth.

I used to have an idmax 12, and it absolutely loved electonic tracks. Very tight clean bass, yet with plenty of depth and huge impact.

Not sure about the W0's.... a mate of mine had a pair of 10W0's running off 250w per sub, and while they sound nice and tight, they lacked depth and generally seemed to be absolutely gutless. This may have been due to the enclosure, but I don't think so.

My old Boston Pro 10 seemed to work well with fast beats. Wasn't dramatically loud, but did still had quite decent impact for a 10.

Front stage: strong midbass / kickbass is a must, bwecause alot of teh bass in dance tracks is in the upper subbass and lower midbass regions. Would agree on the recommendations of Rainbow Kicks, or Boston. Boston Pros would probably be fantastic for this style of music, as they have an 'in your face' tweeter and reportedly have plenty of kick. I've also heard Focal and MB quart have quite good midbass and a brigtht nature, so they may also work well.

Rear fill may be a good option, as suggested by thematt, but probably may not be necesary.

I'd say you want want your tweeters up high I think. In this type of music treble is critical, and you really want an open 'airy' feel to the music - have tried dance music with tweets down in the kicks, but this stile of music tends to drag down your stagefrom my experiences, so kicks just dont seem to work well.

Any tweeters that are 'too smooth' will likely not work well. Rainbow Vanadiums should work well, becasue they are very refined, but still very detailed.

Bostons if run up high may be TOO harsh - especialy if the music is harsh itself.


Aside from this, the rest should be pretty easy to figure out

The IDMAX definately sounds the way to go, heard too many good things about them.

What are opinions on the dynaudios? Heard alot of good things about those 240GTs...

The Dynaudio speakers are stunning, but might not have the impact your looking for. The mids are accurate, but I'm not sure how they would sound with trance.

If I had to describe speaker characteristics in a visual way, I'd say Dyn's are like wood, natural, smooth, soft. MB Q's, Focal, etc are metallic, hard, harsh, but very clean cut and accurate.

I'd probably recomend the higher end of the MBQ range for the sounds that are being described, since they have a strong midbass with a very bright tweeter. To bright for my taste but might work for you.

PS: If you want a listen to Dyn mids in Perth PM me. Always good to demo speakers in car, rather than shops.

Whilst Ive only had mine in for less than a week and tuning isnt good enough yet, I find them a bit lacking in midbass for trance and the like. Otherwise they are beautiful though.

Mine are the 240GTs, I think with a bigger midbass driver / a three ways instead, they would be perfect.

EDIT: Something is being gay with the quotes.

Yeah but when your front stage is loud enough, having rear speakers makes it even louder!

Personally, I listen to heaps of trance, and its the lack of bass that I enjoy. Ive heard it on Dyn systems before, and it sounds absolutely beeeuuuuutiful. Very emotive sort of music. Soft and harmonic.

If your taste is a dance genre OTHER than trance (such as house, D&B, electric etc.) then go for something with more hit. Or bigger front end (8's, 9's or even 10's...). But that means you would be needing 3-ways...

Rainbows man! GET RAINBOWS!! Or Bostons.

Thanks for the advice guys

I would say I was after somethin with a bit of hit, as I listen to quite a bit of harder dance, drum and bass etc. Anyone got opinions on the Focal K2P's? And is there anywhere I can check out the prices of the rainbow gear? Or probably more to the point, what range of rainbow splits am I looking at for ~$1000?

An IDMAX is a very nice sub, but even though I loved mine, I would strongly recommend auditioning anything before buying. Everyone has different taste, and regardless of how nice any sub is, there will always be people out there who will prefer something else.



Dynaudios are bloody nice speakers. When I first started getting into car audio, I heard a set of these which absolutely blew me away. They partly served as inspiration to me of how great a car can sound. Defiantely one of my favorites.



For that cash, youd be looking at the Profi level of speakers.

There is the Profi line, and the Profi Vanadium line.

Both are available as either Standard, Kick-Bass or Phase Plug variants Further more, each (bar the phase plugs) is available as either a 2 or 3 way set, effectively giving 10 different options.

For abit of a rough summary:

Profi: Uses silk dome tweeters, and natrural fibre mids.
Vanadium: Uses aluminium tweeters and mids.
Standard: Speaks for itself!
Kick Use a more complex spider/motor structure to optimise 'punch' in the kickbass region.
Phase Plug: Uses an aluminium phase plug for an optimised midrange

I can't commend alot on the Standard line as I havent heard them.

I have however heard the Profi Vanadium Kicks, and Profi Phase Plugs (both two way). Did a back-to-back on the same day, in the same car, with all identical settings, and no sub running.

We concluded:
1) The Vanadium tweeter is slightly more detailed in the top end, while the Profi has a touch less 'ting' but sound a little more warm. However, this is nitpicking, as the differences are very slight. I don't belive we would have picked a difference if we didn't run them back to back the way we did.

2) The Vanadium Kickbass driver had slightly stronger mid-bass then the Profi Phase-plug driver. Again, the difference was much smaller then we expected, but it was there. Both proved to have a very strong midbass, with the kick just giving out that wee bit more.

3) The Profi Phase Plug set had a little more midrange detail then the Vanadium Kick did. Yet again, the difference was quite modest, and probably only noticable due to the back-to-back nature of the test.

The way I look at it, the Kick is a standard version with extra midbass, and the Phase plug is a standard version with improved midrange. Hence, I'd imagine the Standard set would sound similar, minus the extras (hence - standard). Considering the kick still has nice midrange, and the phase plug still has nice midbass, I can't image this would be too much of a worry!

So basically, assuming all this is true, the range really does do just what it says.

If priority is midbass? Go with the kicks.

If priority is midrange? Go the phase plugs.

If you don't feel you'd notice the difference, and don't feel he need to spend extra, go the standard set.

If you like that little bit more 'tingle' then get Vanadiums - they are still very warm and smooth.

If you prefer a slightest bit more mellow, then go with the profis - they still have great 'tingle'.

If you have the cash, have room to work with, and dont mind a little more effort in the install then go with the three ways - else get two ways.

There are plenty of options, and my recommendation is if you can get an audition of either of the above, well installed, then it will give you a good indication of what to expect, as they are all similar in style. Then if you like them, and want a touch more of something, use the above list to help you choose.

In the given music, top and and midbass are probably more important then warmth and midrange detail, so i'd say the Vanadium Kickbass would probably be your best bet

To answer your question, Im pretty sure Darren over at Technik Car Audio does Rainbow...

To my knowledge there is no dealer in WA currently. check here for authorised dealers http://www.mobilefidelity.com.au/dealers.htm

Sound Xplosive seem to have Rainbow listed on there products page

I didnt read all that muzzy had to say (sorry ) but this is the one thread where i am gonna steer u away from the Dynaudios. I personally think they will do an average job for what u want. The MD100 Tweeter doesnt have that high energy feeling needed with trance music. Yuor vocals will sound great, you can raise the amount of "kick" u get with an EQ. I just feel the tweeter may be its downfall.

I'm with the Kid on this one, MBQ range is a good one to look at.

Now what could be recommended for amplification? Being I am probably after ~125 +- 25 wrms @ 4 ohms for front stage and ~500wrms @ 4 ohms for the sub?

There seems to be alot of amps out there at various prices, all from reputable brands delivering similar power...

to add what you said, the phase plugs are more directional, while the kickbass sound disperses more, so the choice will also depend on you install if your going to have the woofer's angled or not...