If you have ever been in a night club, im sure that you would have noticed that the music doesnt have alot of lows and highs DB wise.
My brother who is a DJ and also has started producing music now has showed me a few tricks they use on the club tracks which seems to be a common thing, which is reducing the dynamic range.
He gave me a few before and after samples, it really adds to the effect, hard to explain but really makes it sound better.
(I suppose there are 2 types of SQ people, the ones who try and reproduce the music to exactly how it would sound as if the band was infront of you, and the other which applys to club music (house/trance.) you dont have a band as its all samples/riffs/mashs ups and the aim is to get the best sound by whatever effects are at hand)
anyway, being the later type, it would be interesting to check out any audio processors that have this effect, if there is one? As it would bring the club scene one step closer to the car.
Full Version: Audio processor that can reduce dynamic range?
did you mean audio processor that has like a club effect?
if you want to alter the dynamic range you could always just use a equaliser and get the sound characteristic you want
if you want to alter the dynamic range you could always just use a equaliser and get the sound characteristic you want
Doesnt have a lot of lows? Is that a joke?
Every half-decent club i've dj'd in can shake my eyeballs.
Most club systems, albeit, use big powerful PA style drivers, not studio quality reproduction.
But then again, keep in mind a LOT of dj's use either vinyl (which has those inherent characteristics you describe) or, more commonly, cd's. Whats the source on these cd's? Usually, mp3 rips, either from itunes or from their own albums at home. Not too many dj's, sadly, are savvy when it comes to ripping in a quality fashion.
Every half-decent club i've dj'd in can shake my eyeballs.
Most club systems, albeit, use big powerful PA style drivers, not studio quality reproduction.
But then again, keep in mind a LOT of dj's use either vinyl (which has those inherent characteristics you describe) or, more commonly, cd's. Whats the source on these cd's? Usually, mp3 rips, either from itunes or from their own albums at home. Not too many dj's, sadly, are savvy when it comes to ripping in a quality fashion.
QUOTE (Liquidity @ Jun 16 2006, 09:41 AM) 
Doesnt have a lot of lows? Is that a joke?
Every half-decent club i've dj'd in can shake my eyeballs.
Most club systems, albeit, use big powerful PA style drivers, not studio quality reproduction.
But then again, keep in mind a LOT of dj's use either vinyl (which has those inherent characteristics you describe) or, more commonly, cd's. Whats the source on these cd's? Usually, mp3 rips, either from itunes or from their own albums at home. Not too many dj's, sadly, are savvy when it comes to ripping in a quality fashion.
Every half-decent club i've dj'd in can shake my eyeballs.
Most club systems, albeit, use big powerful PA style drivers, not studio quality reproduction.
But then again, keep in mind a LOT of dj's use either vinyl (which has those inherent characteristics you describe) or, more commonly, cd's. Whats the source on these cd's? Usually, mp3 rips, either from itunes or from their own albums at home. Not too many dj's, sadly, are savvy when it comes to ripping in a quality fashion.
he was reffering to lows in SPL, not freq.
well thats my take on it anyway.
Im sorry, but you are going to have to spell this out for me here....
How does REDUCING the dynamic range (ie. COMPRESSION!!) INCREASE Sound Quality???
Thats like saying MP3's are a high quality version of DVD-Audio...
How does REDUCING the dynamic range (ie. COMPRESSION!!) INCREASE Sound Quality???
Thats like saying MP3's are a high quality version of DVD-Audio...
he's the clubber type 
i dont think "sound better" in this case is referring to SQ.
more like its more 'in your face' , which I suppose could enhance the energising effect that club music has on ppl ?
more like its more 'in your face' , which I suppose could enhance the energising effect that club music has on ppl ?
Yeah compression and/or limiting will reduce dynamic range.
Most recorded music is compressed to some degree. Compressing individual tracks during the recording process like vocals and bass makes their volume more even and consistent. Drums are compressed to give them a fatter sound.
Compression will increase the amplitude (volume) of low level sound thus making it louder, while at the same time, decreasing the amplitude of higher level sound making it lower in level. So compression both 'turns up the low' and 'turns down the high' effectively squashing the dynamic range.
Limiting however only restricts the volume of the louder short term peaks once they exceed a certain point in volume (threshhold) without changing the low volume stuff.
Most popular music is generally highly compressed. However this kind compression often entails high level compression of the entire mix usually involving radical use digital multiband compression which can reduce to entire dynamic range of a song to only a few decibels. (So you needn't worry about wasting your money on 24bit convertors - you'll never be able to make use of the dynamic range!) This allows a higher average volume level which gives a subjectively louder sound which is what record companies like as it is supposed to make their product sound louder and more 'in your face' than everybody elses.
The catch is that everybody else is also compressing the crap out of their product as well and this has been now so abused that the sound of most popular releases sucks due to the life being crushed out of it.
Most recorded music is compressed to some degree. Compressing individual tracks during the recording process like vocals and bass makes their volume more even and consistent. Drums are compressed to give them a fatter sound.
Compression will increase the amplitude (volume) of low level sound thus making it louder, while at the same time, decreasing the amplitude of higher level sound making it lower in level. So compression both 'turns up the low' and 'turns down the high' effectively squashing the dynamic range.
Limiting however only restricts the volume of the louder short term peaks once they exceed a certain point in volume (threshhold) without changing the low volume stuff.
Most popular music is generally highly compressed. However this kind compression often entails high level compression of the entire mix usually involving radical use digital multiband compression which can reduce to entire dynamic range of a song to only a few decibels. (So you needn't worry about wasting your money on 24bit convertors - you'll never be able to make use of the dynamic range!) This allows a higher average volume level which gives a subjectively louder sound which is what record companies like as it is supposed to make their product sound louder and more 'in your face' than everybody elses.
The catch is that everybody else is also compressing the crap out of their product as well and this has been now so abused that the sound of most popular releases sucks due to the life being crushed out of it.
Thank you pundit, you explained it better then I did. I should of explained it better.
And compression was the term I was looking for.
EG, you have a track, your lowest point is 30hz and the highest point is 20,000 hz.
After compression, your lowest point is still 30hz and you highest point is sitll 20,000 hz, but the differerence is the dynamic range is only a few DB like pundit said instead of 20db or whatever the song orginally was.
Anyone who turns their noise up and thinks this is crap, because they listen to their band music and have to have everything the old fashion way to sound good seems pretty simple minded to me.
If you cant admit that theres a whole generation of people who have different tastes then you, then you have a problem! and just because its not like "your" music doesnt mean its not good, so either grow up or stay out of the convo.
I'm not attacking anyone, just hoping people wont respond in a derogatory manner.
Anyways, so now that everyone knows what I'm talking about, is there an audio processor which has this effect?
I'm thinking the process of compression would be a hefty thing, so maybe it cant be done on the fly?
And compression was the term I was looking for.
EG, you have a track, your lowest point is 30hz and the highest point is 20,000 hz.
After compression, your lowest point is still 30hz and you highest point is sitll 20,000 hz, but the differerence is the dynamic range is only a few DB like pundit said instead of 20db or whatever the song orginally was.
Anyone who turns their noise up and thinks this is crap, because they listen to their band music and have to have everything the old fashion way to sound good seems pretty simple minded to me.
If you cant admit that theres a whole generation of people who have different tastes then you, then you have a problem! and just because its not like "your" music doesnt mean its not good, so either grow up or stay out of the convo.
I'm not attacking anyone, just hoping people wont respond in a derogatory manner.
Anyways, so now that everyone knows what I'm talking about, is there an audio processor which has this effect?
I'm thinking the process of compression would be a hefty thing, so maybe it cant be done on the fly?
So basically your saying that you want to limit the db at the extreme opposites of the frequency range?
The Don> pretty much...but rather than limit, he wants it to "compress" the available range of dB that the music comes out at.
So rather than having 100 possible decibel levels (ie: 1 - 100) for a particular noise/sound to be played at. He wants only, say, 20 (ie: 80-100) so when the music is played, every sound gets played with similar volume.... bringing it to ur attention more, but lacking in subtlety from the original.
Its the difference in subtlety/delivery between when someone whispers, talks normally and shouts. You still get the same information from them either way, but the delivery also gives you a sense of the informations' intention/context.
Someone shouts cause they are angry;
Talks normally to during normal conversation; or,
Whispers because they are telling you a secret.
EG: If you and ur g/f were at the cinema, and she had her hand on ur leg and then she shouted 'I WANT YOU TO **** ME WHEN WE GET HOME'.... you'd still get the message, but it wouldnt be as sexy as if she whispered it (or would it
). lol
ps> Yes, I'm very I'm bored at work today
So rather than having 100 possible decibel levels (ie: 1 - 100) for a particular noise/sound to be played at. He wants only, say, 20 (ie: 80-100) so when the music is played, every sound gets played with similar volume.... bringing it to ur attention more, but lacking in subtlety from the original.
Its the difference in subtlety/delivery between when someone whispers, talks normally and shouts. You still get the same information from them either way, but the delivery also gives you a sense of the informations' intention/context.
Someone shouts cause they are angry;
Talks normally to during normal conversation; or,
Whispers because they are telling you a secret.
EG: If you and ur g/f were at the cinema, and she had her hand on ur leg and then she shouted 'I WANT YOU TO **** ME WHEN WE GET HOME'.... you'd still get the message, but it wouldnt be as sexy as if she whispered it (or would it
). lol ps> Yes, I'm very I'm bored at work today
From what i know/believe.
I'm prety sure you're getting "compressing" confused with "normalization" .
Normalization is when the tack volume is whent he volume is "leveled" out.
Compression is the (squeezing) of the high a low freuqiencies, which is very prominent on pop music as it makes songs sound "better" on radio and poor - average quality stero's.
Personally I trust the artist to make it sound as good as possible so wanting to force a specific sound onto already produced music is not my idea of sound quality or a pleasant listening experiece. Admitedly it might make you system sound better, but so does making a system that can play the full audio spectrum at insanely loud volumes.
**Edit, so presume you are lookign for a real time normalisation processor, it'll be hard to come by as all normalisation techniques i have seen analyse the full song prior to processing
I'm prety sure you're getting "compressing" confused with "normalization" .
Normalization is when the tack volume is whent he volume is "leveled" out.
Compression is the (squeezing) of the high a low freuqiencies, which is very prominent on pop music as it makes songs sound "better" on radio and poor - average quality stero's.
Personally I trust the artist to make it sound as good as possible so wanting to force a specific sound onto already produced music is not my idea of sound quality or a pleasant listening experiece. Admitedly it might make you system sound better, but so does making a system that can play the full audio spectrum at insanely loud volumes.
**Edit, so presume you are lookign for a real time normalisation processor, it'll be hard to come by as all normalisation techniques i have seen analyse the full song prior to processing
QUOTE
EG: If you and ur g/f were at the cinema, and she had her hand on ur leg and then she shouted 'I WANT YOU TO **** ME WHEN WE GET HOME'.... you'd still get the message, but it wouldnt be as sexy as if she whispered it (or would it happy.gif ). lol tongue.gif
lmao
QUOTE (gooki @ Jun 16 2006, 04:58 PM)
From what i know/believe.
I'm prety sure you're getting "compressing" confused with "normalization" .
Normalization is when the tack volume is whent he volume is "leveled" out.
Compression is the (squeezing) of the high a low freuqiencies, which is very prominent on pop music as it makes songs sound "better" on radio and poor - average quality stero's.
Personally I trust the artist to make it sound as good as possible so wanting to force a specific sound onto already produced music is not my idea of sound quality or a pleasant listening experiece. Admitedly it might make you system sound better, but so does making a system that can play the full audio spectrum at insanely loud volumes.
**Edit, so presume you are lookign for a real time normalisation processor, it'll be hard to come by as all normalisation techniques i have seen analyse the full song prior to processing
I'm prety sure you're getting "compressing" confused with "normalization" .
Normalization is when the tack volume is whent he volume is "leveled" out.
Compression is the (squeezing) of the high a low freuqiencies, which is very prominent on pop music as it makes songs sound "better" on radio and poor - average quality stero's.
Personally I trust the artist to make it sound as good as possible so wanting to force a specific sound onto already produced music is not my idea of sound quality or a pleasant listening experiece. Admitedly it might make you system sound better, but so does making a system that can play the full audio spectrum at insanely loud volumes.
**Edit, so presume you are lookign for a real time normalisation processor, it'll be hard to come by as all normalisation techniques i have seen analyse the full song prior to processing
Compression, limiting. levelling & normalisation while all being amplitude altering effects are actually different.
Traditional (old fashioned if you want to refer to as that) compression is purely dependant on amplitude variation... not frequency.
However frequency selective amplitude control ie digital multiband compression and/or limiting is now very popular and usually applied to the entire mix.
As far as trusting the artist to make it sound as good as possible... if you mean they shouldn't allow the dynamic range to be non-existant well good luck as most record companies dictate that by insisting on ridiculous amounts of digitial compression and limiting.
Record companies are now so beholdant to extreme compression they actually fear, that if they don't squash the bejesus out of everything to make it as loud as possible, they will lose sales. And no record company executive wants to be blamed for losing sales. Remember it's common now for people to listen to 128kbs MP3's in their cars.... and you want dynamic range?... Yeah right!!
Just listen to the Red Hot Chilli Peppers past couple of offerings... Dynamic Range... ???...
Zip, Zilch, Nil, Nowt, ZEEEEEEEEERO!!!!
More like the 'Real Squashed Chilli Peppers' if you ask me.
The biggest sound effect on the their stuff is the compressor... and you can hear it working overtime!
nono.. normalization and compression are very different things. Im not talking about normalization.
eg. A 4db change before compression would be a 1db change after compression. Thats very different to what normalization does.
Now I know too much compression can turn a song to crap, and some types of music fair better to compression better then others. And trance/house music at a club is compressed more then usual so the sound is always there, so you dont get quiet moments which would be weird at a club.
I wasnt calling traditional effects old fashioned, I just couldnt find a better term to use. But now I have one.
Just to set things straight again, I am not talking about effects that have anything to do with frequencies. Its the dynamic range I'm talking about here.
So... heres the question again, can compression be done on the fly by an audio processor? Or even better, is their a plug in for windows media player or winamp, as it would go perfect with a carputer setup.
eg. A 4db change before compression would be a 1db change after compression. Thats very different to what normalization does.
Now I know too much compression can turn a song to crap, and some types of music fair better to compression better then others. And trance/house music at a club is compressed more then usual so the sound is always there, so you dont get quiet moments which would be weird at a club.
I wasnt calling traditional effects old fashioned, I just couldnt find a better term to use. But now I have one.
Just to set things straight again, I am not talking about effects that have anything to do with frequencies. Its the dynamic range I'm talking about here.
So... heres the question again, can compression be done on the fly by an audio processor? Or even better, is their a plug in for windows media player or winamp, as it would go perfect with a carputer setup.
look up VST plugins. can definitely be done via that on the fly.
get a mastering processor - Behringer DEQ2496 - under $500 will do all you want it too.
oh wait, that's what I use for EQ in the car ... hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
and I can provide training on this too
oh wait, that's what I use for EQ in the car ... hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
and I can provide training on this too
QUOTE (Ascension24 @ Jun 16 2006, 08:02 PM)
nono.. normalization and compression are very different things. Im not talking about normalization.
eg. A 4db change before compression would be a 1db change after compression. Thats very different to what normalization does.
Now I know too much compression can turn a song to crap, and some types of music fair better to compression better then others. And trance/house music at a club is compressed more then usual so the sound is always there, so you dont get quiet moments which would be weird at a club.
I wasnt calling traditional effects old fashioned, I just couldnt find a better term to use. But now I have one.
Just to set things straight again, I am not talking about effects that have anything to do with frequencies. Its the dynamic range I'm talking about here.
So... heres the question again, can compression be done on the fly by an audio processor? Or even better, is their a plug in for windows media player or winamp, as it would go perfect with a carputer setup.
eg. A 4db change before compression would be a 1db change after compression. Thats very different to what normalization does.
Now I know too much compression can turn a song to crap, and some types of music fair better to compression better then others. And trance/house music at a club is compressed more then usual so the sound is always there, so you dont get quiet moments which would be weird at a club.
I wasnt calling traditional effects old fashioned, I just couldnt find a better term to use. But now I have one.
Just to set things straight again, I am not talking about effects that have anything to do with frequencies. Its the dynamic range I'm talking about here.
So... heres the question again, can compression be done on the fly by an audio processor? Or even better, is their a plug in for windows media player or winamp, as it would go perfect with a carputer setup.
Multi-band compression will give you the most transparent result. This is in fact frequency selective compression which is by far the best for compressing an entire track. It splits the audio up into different frequency bands (like a crossover network does for example) then compresses each band individually before recombining the bands back together. This reduces artifacts such as pumping or breathing and stops high level low frequency sounds (like kick drums etc) from causing dynamic high frequency reduction which dulls conventionally compressed audio.
Well this isn't on the fly but it can process and entire 4 minute track in about 20 seconds (P4 3ghz).
This is a plugin made by Waves which is one of the best software multi-band compressors made...
It's probably not practical for incar use but you could pre-treat your audio beforehand.
Be warned Waves plugins are VERY expensive!!
Looks like a Dx/VST plugin to me.. if so... can be done on the fly.
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