I notice lots of car audio stores, wholesalers and groups such as CAM frequently advertising their staff or the staff of their dealer networks/outlets as being professionally trained installation technicians and approved installers. My question is, as a former installer in a small car audio store in regional area, is who does the professional training and who are the installers approved by? In 3.5 years working in a store the only training I was ever offered was a retail certificate and some product (sales) training from a couple of dealers.

Is this common in the industry or was it only because of the size/location of the store I was employed at? If this is common, would this not be false advertising?

Should we all phone Today Tonight?

GREAT question And not one I can answer.

I actually asked about this once, but the only useful info i got was that some of the guys there (not even the guys working in the install bay) had like, a basic cert in general electronics from tafe, etc.

"approved installers" referred to a guy that had been REGISTERED with viper/mongoose etc as their primary installer. (may not have been those two brands, but you get the gist).

Seemed a little scammy. Occasionally i know there are guys around who have done the proper training over in the USA. Whats the name of those schools again?

The below is quoted from one distributors web site:

XXXXXX Specialist Dealers have real product knowledge and are the most experienced people in the car audio industry. They provide professional advice, high quality installation and superior customer service which ensures your satisfation.

XXXXXX's dedication to high performance audio is equalled by XXXXXX's commitment to providing the best technical support and installation training available. A reflection of this is XXXXXX's unique worldwide YYYY installer training program. This is your assurance of quality installation and superior sound performance.

XXXXXX, a world leader in Mobile Multimedia is at the forefront of new and advanced technologies. Only XXXXXX's Specialist Dealers are experts in this area. They are continually informed, exposed and educated in the latest technologies and Multimedia. See, hear, feel, experience and believe the latest Mobile media at your local XXXXXX Specialist Dealer.


I sold and installed their products for 3.5 years. In this time I attended 2 training sessions which usually detailed the new product line being released, although there was some good basic theory in there. I would like to mention that in both cases I won the quiz at the end of the night and have the freebie products to prove it.

I should also mention the gent that owned the store I was employed at still does not know how an audio speaker works. believing DC is passed through a speaker and that clipping is AC
To be fair, AZ Trading were always pushing for us to get into their workshop and learn some stuff but again the store owner didn't seem to find this inportant. I note that Pioneer only seem to mention "Retailers" on their web site, not installers.

Any store owners have opinions on this? It really does seem a little fraudulent to me so far

So Alpine is meant to train you how to do your job? Your employer should be providing training, not a distributor. I'm sure if you had any problems when installing, a quick phone call to them would have solved any issues.

I don't believe it's the responsibility of wholesalers or distributors to train installation staff. You're right, it's the responsibility of the store owners. Tech support by all the companies I've dealt with has been fantastic and yes, it's only a phone call away. I just find it interesting that some stores and distributors can advertise all this training that staff are recieving when it appears none is taking place.

When I mention this to friends and family who have nothing to do with the industry they are quite suprised that this is the case. I do know many stores offer their staff great training in-house, but claiming professional training seems to be quite misleading. I am just wanting to know if this happens all over the country or have I experienced it simply due to store size/location/poor management?

I've heard of a Strathfield course and a TAFE course to do with car audio installation, but don't know any more than that. People use those as credentials.

there was GAIT trained installer a while ago

locally SCR DID have an apprenticeship program in place and there was RTTI as well ( both circa 2000ish) but after that its mainly product training nights that are called 'training'

as for the US based accreditations MECP. (mine was in 96.) locally (currrent) to my knowlegde there isnt a real accreditation course for it.

So it appears that by CAM saying one of the benefits to customers when shopping at their local CAM dealer is "professionally trained installation technicians" they are being a little misleading? I know from my own experiences that you learn heaps on the job, but advertising that seems a little dishonest.

anything to gain a edge.. trust me there were a few shops doing this nationwide - not just cams dealers.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned CAM and didn't really intend to single them out. I imagined this does happen nation wide and hence posting the question. I have actually emailed CAM to see if I get a response. None so far. This practice seems pretty poor really. I'm not trying to say that nobody knows what they are doing, but just that advertising those claims isn't very cool. I wonder how much this happens through out other industries?

bit of research would probably scare you.

Well I know not to ask sales staff in any type of store for advice. I used to rely information from sales people until I worked retail briefly. Reading the box the product, whatever that might be, seems to be the extent of the training offered

there would be a fair bit of business in training people wouldnt there??I know it takes time and money to setup, but with high quality installers allover the place (Audio Express up North, adelaide car audio shop down south, and FHRX here in the middle, plus the other countless instalers that i cant remember) there could be some sort of "official" course recognised in australia couldnt there???

As far as the general public are concerned I would imagine some kind of qualification for security installs would be the most important. I realise NSW ans ACT have something in place as far as registering installers but I don't think other states do. NMVTRC with their CARSAFE program make installers sign a contract to say that installations will meet the Aus standard but I don't think it is checked as to who is meeting those requirements. I've never seen it myself anyway.

As for audio, something like GAIT or RTTI would be great, but getting some store owners to pay for and send staff there would be a struggle. Personally I'd pay myself, then hit the boss up for more pay after the training if I was in that position.

Sadly, here in Australia there isn't any real training program installers are required to attend or even can attend short of a basic tafe class.
There are a couple of programs avaiable in Canada and the USA.
MECP, Mobile Electronics Cert. Program
I tried to bring it into the country several years ago but the cost of doing so exceeded my ability and I was unable to secure investment to do so.
An other option overseas is Mobile Dynamics who have offices in Markham Ontario and in Arizona I think.
Other than that, Alpine was the only manufacturer who made an attempt at formal training but I found people who attended these classes came out with Alipne brain washing and wouldn't recommend thier program. Granted it did cover the basics but the vast majority of the GAIT course is Alpine not car electronics.
So, summing up, no the retail client can not be sure that the person working on thier car knows what they are doing. You must do the research and ask for references if you feel the need to be assured that your car will be handled by a professional and more importantly some one with experience.
Cheers

So it seems fair to say that any organisation claiming ALL it's dealers have professionally trained installation technicians is in fact incorrect and intentionally misleading?

No, it will just need clarification on what is professionally trained.

For example, as there is no recognised accreditation standard, it could be taken to mean,
Trained by a person said to be a professional within their field.

Professional could just mean someone who derives income from their occupation.

Afterall, remove the TAFE classes from apprenticeships and what do you have left?

I did consider this too, but the impression that is left by claiming professionally trained techs to me means some sort of officially recognised training. I would expect this would be considered false advertising as the term is used to deceive consumers. I'd love them to advertise "17yo technicians trained by 19yo technician who's been doing this for almost two years now"

It seems that this desciption, in many cases, would be the most accurate

in the case of a chain store - yes!

I have had a 12 month aprenticship through 'motor trades association qld"(mtaq), my head audio salesmen is also qualified with the same mtaq training.
so tafe runs one, mtaq also holds one, and strathfield? wouldn't even shop there.

I know in my bosses case, he would not put on anyone without this certificate, this is a case of insurance, cause without this certification, you are then fitting unqualified, and makes a store liable, like a mechanic shop, having a dude that knows a fe things about cars. but alot of stores out there are so desporate to get someone, they grab any kid and give them a pair of cutters. that is why you see alot of crap paid people. from another thread as referance, i can tell you that i get just over 600 a week, another 2 pros i know get over 700 and 650 a week. But if your looking into doing a career in this field, and happen to get a start, insist on getting formal training which leads to a peice of paper.
UNfortunaetly due to these stores having the backyarder out back, this has dropped the whole profession, in the case of that the customer thinks that the guy that does the fitting, thinks he knows, not knows what he knows.

I know, that i will be hunting down a new fitter shortly, and that person( as there are chicks) will not only have to be put thru a traineeship, but also trained in house to what we wish in quality, and profesionalism.

enough ranting from me..oops

sound like one that went through a few years back at SCR . think she's at chermside now (natialie)

Yeh obvioulsy so long as they love the job and good at it, there should be more, refreshing to see.
i think an autobarn has one somewhere.

automotive electrician apply to this? just a thought, though maybe not enough specific training on the audio side..

by memory there is a couple modules, regarding audio, not very large ones. but you got ynderstand the car before building on it.

certainly does. (that waht I did.)

I have qualifictions in electrical/electronics/IT and 10 years experience in acoustics and car audio applications - does that mean I'm qualified to offer advice?

I'd love the opportunity (it was mentioned last year to get someone like Scott Bulwala out for some training weekend) to improve my real qualification in acoustics and reproduction, without having to go to UK and pay $50000p.a. for a degree in acoustics.

would be enough for me to take you in that said I heard that around the time of adelaide AS there will be one of the guys from DLS in town doing his bit.

I think there are some good arguments in this thread.

People ask what makes an installer qualified, but what makes a CAASQ judge qualified?

CAASQ Accredited Judges = specific Training Nights and experience.

Oh and relevance ?

it is what should make a trained installation technician.
training, experience, training in my opinion, proper courses. not the audio nights held by diff manufacturers. i learn more from the reps than going to those. food nice tho.

I second Marc here - CAASQ judges have to learn the difference between what is great and what is fantastic - no mean feat.

only experience, and really knowing what the tracks are 'supposed' to sound like (and remembering that) enables judges to make distinctions between close competition.

And in my opinion there is a WHOLE lot more to being a high class installation technician than being able to judge a sound quality competition.

Just my opinion.

But as someone who has worked in this kind of retail environment i have seen installers who attend training nights/days, have been doing it for years, yet i still wouldn't let them work on my car due to the dodgy jobs they do.

I think some of the problem also is the (relatively) low pay rates for quality installers - and the ever-increasing push to do more work for less COST.

I don't mean this in a bad way to car audio installers - anyone who is highly skilled should be rewarded for their talents and experience.

It's the same in many businesses, increase profit margin by reducing costs. This often means employees are retained on the lowest possible wage, and as long as they get the work done, that's fine whether or not it's been done right.

it's trying to find the quality installers out there.
the price based installations usually regardmajor audio/entertainment shops.
i personally charge what i feel to be a good price for a quality outcome of a job. i have had so many customers come in, and tell me that the jint up the road can do it for 10-20 bucks cheeper, they expect to get a price match...i tell them to go there. because you get what you pay for. those customers have returned so many times.

at th end of the day, if a customer won;t pay for the training, the time, the tools and yes the risk. in my mind, they go go somewhere else. because it doesn't make it worth while for me to install that gear.
i think too, their needs to be a line drawn between the retail side of audio, and the workshop side of audio. product knowledge is probably the only place where it crosses over. in all my time i would never let a salesmen even dare touch my car. let alone work on it.

but your right in thebetter way of saying that good installers are hard to find. but like stated it's becuase of rated pay. my bosss looks after me igive ya the hot tip!

ah the carps vs teh cretes agrument...
always fun.

I don't see the problem personally.

If you work in the IT industry for example, but have no official certification, then it would be perfectly true to say you are a professional in the IT field, because you are exactly that. It would be a lie to say you are a CERTIFIED professional in the IT field however. I wouldn't consider the former statement to be misleading at all.

I think there is a pretty clear distinction between "Professionally Trained" and "Professionally Certified". Should the consumer "assume" incorrectly I genuinely feel that it is their own problem for not being smart enough to pick it.

How clear do we need it to be?

If a person told me they were "professionally trained" in an industry, my immediate interpretation of that would be that they have been trained by an industry professional...honestly, the phrase really does speak for itself.

It's like seeing an advertisement at a retail store that says "up to $50% off all stock" and whinging that the item you want is only 10% off. The "up to" is clearly stated, and worded perfectly well, and if you ask me no store is responsible for the interlectual incompetence of a customer.

Not trying to attack your comment or anything, but you can't accuse a store of false advertising just because they say their staff are all professionally trained when by definition, they are.

It's like ordering a new car in red, and then trying to sue the car yard for a refund because you were expecting burgundy. If you were stupid enough to assume that 'red' means 'burgundy', then how is that their problem? Sad thing is, knowing the world these days, the courts would probably rule in your favour!

do tafe acually have courses to teach how to install or basics, id love to do something like that EDIT: ignore that i missed the guy saying tthere was no basic kind in australia...

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