rainbow tweeter copies:

http://www.poweramp.co.kr/product/product_...AKER&page=1

tru amp copies

http://www.poweramp.co.kr/product/product_...ge=2&order=

UK forums interesting convo about this brand zelos/abyss

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=137141

This was taken from another thread in this same forum concerning these very products. Interesting isnt it?

That is known for ages...references about the relationship between Tru and Abyss have been discussed/known since, I dunno, nearly 2 years on US forums? So it's pretty much old news. Jas, I suggest you look at similar threads in other audio forums, don't just rely on the talkaudio one.

Cheers,

Bon

I wonder why Tru doesn't have the lineup they used to have in their website anymore?? Trivial doesn't it

bon even though im not interested in tru recently this thing called zelos has come to my attention. What is zelos where did they come from how come they use tru heatsinks.

it would be good to have more information about tru zelos and abyss

if you have anything to add to this discussion it would be helpful

how about the rainbow reference tweeter copies too.

Why are they being called copies? Because they LOOK like Rainbow Reference tweeters?

Yes Blake look-a-likes to the Rainbow Reference Tweeters.

The Rainbow Reference are NOT sold on their own and are hand machined/assembled in Germany.

I think Henry is better suited to answer this since he is the distributor for abyss and Zelos .

edit: comments retracted

Mobile Fidelity (George, Icacha) is the distributor for Rainbow.

Have you done an A/B comparison, or even listened to the tweeters to be able to make that statement that they are inferior?

You can buy them and we'll put them up against the Reference

BTW, there are more people involved with Mobile Fidelity than just one person, if you can kindly edit your post in regards to names thank you.

Bon

if we take what John Yi TRU Technology is telling us the TRUth and he is whom he claims to be (john yi has been on this forum before too) then it seems like abyss has used the spare tru technology heat sinks to house their own amp internals. However to putout a range internationally with the exact same heatsink as another company....not sure what legal ramifications are there.

personally i dont care if they use the same heat sinks or if something is made in the usa vs asia. For all we know the amps might even be better than tru technology amps or might share similar designs (who knows unless we try them for ourselves). It just seems a bit coincidental that tru is now going to a whole new look range.

zelos and abyss look very interesting.

Henry will tell us more when he gets the chance.

yeah good ole John Yi, always said that tru were hand made in USA, then last year said that all there prooducts are now hand made in the USA. (obviously he was lying before that)

there have been a few storys i have read about the abyss/tru saga, few different storys from the same person too who's name i wont mention.
but i belive there pretty much the same thing and abyss is not to be sold out side of asia.

i did have pleny of info on it but lost all of it in a big PM clean out.

as for the rainbow copy tweeter..
ranbow speakers are made by another company http://www.ehmann-partner.de/frme_ger.html who make a fair few brands.
i guess if you asked nicely and gave them all the correct spec's etc you could have a tweeter that looked and sounded the same as the rainbow hmmm interesting that is. not saying this is the case but who know's, anything is possible

Just curious where you got that information from, as nothing on that site looks anything like Rainbow gear to me...

Also, there is no mention anywhere there of rainbow being one of their clients?

from the owner of another speaker company that get's his speakers made through them.

of course there not going to advertise rainbow on there. why would they.

they make speakers for 4 companys that i know of, two that you would know are rainbow and the other brax/helix.

Rob, there is more to it than what you have heard along the grape vine. I've been asked not to comment on particulars so I'll leave it at that.

When you coming up for another KK's and coffee?

John Yi is American born korea i believe, go figure.
Asian country does make very hi end product, look at AurumCantus speaker or some chinese made tube home amplifier.

Jas: That is why you'd better of seeking the info yourself on various car audio forums, either at elitecaraudio.com or talkaudio.co.uk or others that I might miss and form your own opinion...I myself do not have the full info, hence my reluctance to comment on the Tru/Abyss thing.

The way I understand it though, is that what peeved a lot of people in the US was the conflicting info as to where the Tru amps were made (are they made in US? Assembled in US? Or Korean made but with a different badge?), not the actual build quality of the products themselves. This conflicting info might have an effect on people's perception on their prices. Tru amps are sold as premium products, but if the Abyss amps of the exact same type do not command such a premium (or not as high as what Tru would like to position the amps outside Korea) then why would people pay for the difference? OK, slight difference is tolerable to cover expenses such as shipping and marketing and what not. But if the difference in perceived "exclusitivity" is too great while in reality both Tru and Abyss amps are exactly the same, then people would start to complain.

However, let me say that I know nothing of how Abyss positions its products in the Korean market and their retail prices, so what I've just said above may be off-base. Also, whether the guts of, say, a Tru C7.4 and its Abyss counterpart are exactly the same is also speculation on my part. But I do want to stress that the products themselves are fine, at least when it comes to a C7.4 since I own one and have been happy with it since day one. I even contemplate of getting the 4 channel hybrid tube amp, if only my wallet would allow me...

As for the so-called Rainbow knock-offs, haven't heard anything about it myself so I won't comment on that.

Cheers,

Bon

PS: I hope that by saying all this I don't incur the wrath of the local Tru distributor...

Just because something LOOKS like Rainbow, doesn't mean it sounds like Rainbow.
I drive a commodore, I can whack a touring car body kit on it and do some paint work so that it LOOKS like a Supercar, however it certainly doesn't perform like one.
I for one don't care who, or where my speakers are made. They sound good, they're authentic, and I'm happy with them.

Haha there are many people who still don't understand that concept

Like every second Lancer owner in Australia??

"It IS an Evo. Seriously, it even has a Rallyart sticker!"

i like how all the rainbow users get defencive about this. does it really matter if someone else is (if it is true) making a copy? do you feel a little less well endowed by this?

wat other brands r being copied
is soundstream n focal being copied

sry, i didn't realise i had posted in this thread before this post.



and i own tru tech amps to.

you have now

i couldnt care if trained monkeys put together my rainows, in a jail cell in the depths of the india south, or if 50 other companys made a tweeter that looked EXACTLY like my power tweeter, that does not make it any more or less smooth detailed or soft,

i will love it either way

I don't feel particularly well endowed by my Rainbows, and I don't see how atesting to the superiority of my speakers of copies implies that I'm 'defensive'. What I saying is that I dont care where products I made, I care about how products perform. Rainbow speakers PERFORM, end of story.

No one is saying otherwise You sound VERY defensive

Is Henry going to be bringing any of the product in? Seems like the only real way of settling this debate...

Whos offended?

I'm more worried for the people who may potentially be ripped off by being fooled by such things.

It wouldnt be hard for someone to buy these tweeters for example, and then sell them on ebay for very high amounts as a "rainbow reference tweeter", hence potentially ripping off potentila customers.

I see this as a potential concern.

Who's to say they don't already cost a lot? Everyone is assuming that these amps are crap copies just because they are Korean.

Don't DLS and Genisis' high-end amps both use the same heatsink/exterior? Does anyone doubt the quality of either?

Have been trying to do a bit of reading up on the Products...

From http://www.caraudio-mag.co.kr/new/main.php3



There is more on that site, just search for Abyss from the front page. (Select the second option on the drop-down menu for most results). I'm so far yet to find any prices but that magazine holds them to some-what high esteem.



N.B: I'm not picking a side or anything, I just hate bickering about products that NOBODY here has tried

This is why I said it is "potentially" a cheap rip off.

Until someone can confirm that these products are expensive high and products, and we can get a comment from someone unbiased who has used them, I'm going to continue in my assumption that they are low quality rip-offs.

It's just like many chinese car manufacturers who have been involved in countless lawsuits for building near carbon-copies of well known Japanese built vehicles.

This company's entire range of amps appears to be identical (or very close to) in appearance to Tru-tech's entire range. When it's a single product or line it's one thing - but an entire range?

As far as the tweeters go - build a big 5" tweeter and youd expect it to look something like an Esotar. Build a 4" Tweeter and you may expect it to look similar to Scanspeaks or supremos - both use relatively typical visual design for their tweeters. The Refrence however, is an extremely original tweeter in appearance, and looks unlike anything else i've seen. I fail to see any way a person could claim that the company built and designed the tweeter from their own research, and had never seen a reference when deciding on what they'd make it look like.

Both lines of products are very clearly designed to look like a duplication of other high quality audio components. If you had a new company and wanted to build high quality expesive products, wouldnt you want to design your products yourself for reasons of brand recognition? I know i would.

Sure it's possible these products are jsut as good (or even better) then the 'originals' but until I see some possible hints to the quality of the products, i'm naturally going to assume they are low budget fakes.

Edit: Just saw that last quote from the magazine... I don't know about you, but I cant understand a single word from that very poorly translated source...I see a bunch of figures and numbers, but nowhere do I see any comments which are either posiive or negative. No comments on sound, build quality, reliability... :S

Guilty until proven innocent hey

First car in the gallery uses:

Alpine F#1 Status
Hiquphon OWIII Tweeter
ScanSpeak Revelator Mid-Range
Seas Lotus Reference Mid-Bass
Image Dynamics IDMAX 12" D4v1
Zelos Verdi 4 Channels
Zelos Verdi 2 Channels
Abyss CT2000

Another car:

Alpine F#1 Status + Multimedia Manager
Scan Speak R29 Tweeter
Scan Speak Revelator Mid-Range
Audio Technology C-Quenze 5" Mid-Bass
Zelos Verdi 4 Channels
Zelos Verdi 2 Channels
Scan Speak 10" Woofer x 2
Abyss CT-2000
Zelos Power Cap Technology 10F

Alpine F#1 status... You wouldn't want to team that up with crap amps. Obviously this isn't undeniable evidence that they are awesome, but it helps to paint a picture of the user base.


I still remain unbiased and on no side

have a search through this forum for trutech, there is heaps about abyss on here somewhere
but you will find there aint much different between the 2

muzzy66: I recommend that you also read other car audio forums as well, just like what I've told jas previously. Try to read as many threads as you can about Tru/Abyss. Like you said in your last post:



There has to be a reason why, don't you think? I see the logic (however uncompetitive) in "copying" one or two amps, but an entire range of amps...there must be something more than meets the eye.

Again, this only pertains to the Tru/Abyss affair. As for Rainbow, I know nothing of it.

Cheers,

Bon

so is there any word of when zelos and abyss are coming to australia or where they are available to be demoed?

henrysutrisno's post here:

http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/forums/in...71554&st=15

Abyss and TRU is completely the same product however TRU did some minor changes. For instances, Abyss MFA7.4 with power rating 4x175watts whereas TRU C7.4 is 4x125watts. C7.4 using Kimber Cable whereas MFA7.4 using Brax. Sound Quality wise is different. Abyss is more dynamic since it has a higher power rating and more Mellow because of Brax Cable. C7 is more bright and live.



Physically, every single of Abyss line is the EXACT size with TRU and it is quite stupid if some company copy the other company FULL PRODUCT LINE and done in Korea with a very high labor cost. I co-incidently read the contract between TRU and Abyss and it is very heartbreaking. The contact is suspended in May 2006 because TRU brings the wiring diagram to some other factory in Asia and copy them. That's why you couldn't find the new TRU Billet Series in Abyss website. I'm not sure if any of you guys tested the new Billet Series but it is a shame for TRU. I will not tell you why but you are welcome to test the new Billet Series and comment on that.



We are planning to change all the Abyss product line (except A Class) to avoid any conflicts with TRU. Currently, we have changed the Abyss CT14750 and CT12500 (same with TRU T1). You can find the picture in the abyss website with the product code Abyss CT2.300 and CT4.400. The price is a little more expensive because a few components are upgraded and the casing is totally different. The upcoming changes is on Abyss MFA series (same with TRU C7).



Zelos is completely a new range of product. Just like Mercedes Benz and AMG. Zelos is the AMG line of Abyss. Zelos has it's own class and the pricing is far above Abyss. Our cheapest amplifier cost around USD3,500 and the most expensive is around USD14,000.



Currently, I am looking for a sole agent in Australia that is interested to introduce Abyss and Zelos to Australia market. For anyone who is interested, please PM me.



BTW, regarding the Zelos G-1 Tweeter, I do understand that it looks very similar with rainbow. But it is just the design wise. The materials and specification is different. G-1 Tweeter is designed to be pair up with Super Tweeter.

Thanks Henry for clearing that up

One more thing, every amplifier designers have their own recipee which is not even shown in the wiring diagram or blue print... there is no way that any companies can copy one product 100%... that is just impossible. If any of you guys interested in some evidence, the only way to find out is to buy Abyss product and compare it apple to apple

Thats right a trained monkey's can do just a good a job and they doesnt care about the money , This copy idea is about the money and whos hand is holding it.Good detective work gents............zion

Another quality post brought to you by zion187reigneth...

It has become obveious to all in sundry that you know something that i dont.Lets here it then..........zion

Rainbow speakers...made by monkeys...in Korea...

zion as I've said before, you seem like a decent bloke .... but it's like you speak a different language to the rest of us *shrug*

No offence mate, but Im pretty sure he knows a lot you dont.

That Korean monkey sure looks happy. Personally, Id be pocketing one or two of those to sell on the black market (or online at CAA!!). Dude, thats like printing money....


Also, what are those black things? And what are the gold things ontop of them? And why do those gold things change both in number and position for every one?

Part of the crossovers.

Does noone else see 'Munitions Factory'?